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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 19 2013 02:16 Aelfric wrote: In pubs when do you guys think good time to start ganking with qop ? It depends a lot on the game. Generally you do so when you have your Ultimate to use, it's night time, and/or you get a good rune. | ||
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Aelfric
Turkey1496 Posts
On June 19 2013 02:18 TheYango wrote: It depends a lot on the game. Generally you do so when you have your Ultimate to use, it's night time, and/or you get a good rune. Any particular must have items ? | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
you dont really need much besides bottle/treads/wand that early in the game | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
About Dagon Dagon 1 is a bad item. Upgrading it scales quite well actually. Dagon 3 is a decent item and 4 and 5 are excellent items. The deceptive part is that the cooldown and manacost reduce significantly. A hero might ruin his entire manapool spamming Dagon 1 with little effect, but that same hero would turn into a deadly laser show with Dagon 5, so to speak. Refresher Orb on QoP is just bad. With Aghanims the ult has a cd of 40 sec. And with that, her entire moveset has low cooldowns. Sheep/BKB/DPS is really good though. There is no feasible way to get caught at rosh when having pushed 2 lanes. To be frank, that is a beginners mistake. 1 ward on the hill next to the rune gives you all you need. Also you would only need Ursa for that, everyone else standing outside on the top left and top right ramps. And you don't need to force a push if you have a 2 lane advantage. You just need to distract them away from base. The creeps will kill their Tier 4 towers and slowly kill throne if they don't defend regularly. Boots/bottle and good luck branches. If you get haste/dd/invis, it's always a good opportunity to try. Never forget to ping 10 seconds before you go in and ping wildly the moment you go in. Or communicate your gank attempt in a different way. | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
rush dagger cant escape from double blink | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 19 2013 02:35 Mataza wrote: About Dagon Dagon 1 is a bad item. Upgrading it scales quite well actually. Dagon 3 is a decent item and 4 and 5 are excellent items. The deceptive part is that the cooldown and manacost reduce significantly. A hero might ruin his entire manapool spamming Dagon 1 with little effect, but that same hero would turn into a deadly laser show with Dagon 5, so to speak. The thing is, the Dagon upgrades are horribly cost-ineffective for stats. They only provide 2 Intelligence and the entire rest of the item's cost is on the upgrade. Whether that's worth 1250 gold to you really depends on the game. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On June 18 2013 20:54 Qbek wrote: Orchid is the best 1st big item in pubs on qop like 90% of the time. If I was to suggest one item to rush on QoP, it's orchid I always plan on going sheep first but after a successful sidelane gank I'm at like 1800 gold and the oblivion staff is just too irresistible.... | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 19 2013 02:41 TheYango wrote: The thing is, the Dagon upgrades are horribly cost-ineffective for stats. They only provide 2 Intelligence and the entire rest of the item's cost is on the upgrade. Whether that's worth 1250 gold to you really depends on the game. You would never buy Dagon for its stats. The stats are horrible. If you buy it at all, it's for the hero skill like ability to nuke someone in the face with 400+ damage. On paper it's quite like Lina/Lion ulti. Imagine if those ults would have 800 damage for 100 mana on a 15 sec cd and 800 cast range. That's exactly what Dagon 5 does. Just don't expect it to do anything else. | ||
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
On June 19 2013 02:50 synapse wrote: I always plan on going sheep first but after a successful sidelane gank I'm at like 1800 gold and the oblivion staff is just too irresistible.... Pre BKB orchid is superior even as a disable for most purposes, longer duration, more damage, cheaper. If you are having a good game, orchid should be the go to, with hex , bkb , and aghs being situational | ||
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
On June 18 2013 17:30 rebdomine wrote: http://www.team-dignitas.net/articles/blogs/DotA/1092/Dota-2-Ultimate-Guide-to-Warding Should cover all your warding needs. Thanks ! | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 19 2013 02:51 Mataza wrote: You would never buy Dagon for its stats. The stats are horrible. If you buy it at all, it's for the hero skill like ability to nuke someone in the face with 400+ damage. On paper it's quite like Lina/Lion ulti. Imagine if those ults would have 800 damage for 100 mana on a 15 sec cd and 800 cast range. That's exactly what Dagon 5 does. Just don't expect it to do anything else. You don't buy it FOR the stats, but to act like you shouldn't evaluate the stats when considering the upgrade is foolish. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 19 2013 03:12 TheYango wrote: You don't buy it FOR the stats, but to act like you shouldn't evaluate the stats when considering the upgrade is foolish. Why is that foolish? Force Staff only gives 10 int and 3 regen and it's still a good item just for its active ability. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 19 2013 03:18 Mataza wrote: Why is that foolish? Force Staff only gives 10 int and 3 regen and it's still a good item just for its active ability. And there are quite a few heroes that buy it less often now that it gives 3 regen instead of 10 damage/10 AS. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8913 Posts
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
sometimes you don't wanna upgrade dagon but usually if you're buying it in the first place you're better off upgrading it | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 19 2013 04:54 Dead9 wrote: sometimes you don't wanna upgrade dagon but usually if you're buying it in the first place you're better off upgrading it I agree with this. My disagreement was with the statements: Dagon 1 is a bad item. Upgrading it scales quite well actually. Dagon 3 is a decent item and 4 and 5 are excellent items. Dagon 1 is a STRONGER item timing than Dagon 5. You are stronger the moment you finish Dagon 1 than when you finish Dagon 5. Going from no Dagon to Dagon 1 gives you 400 extra burst damage while adding a decent chunk of stats. The subsequent upgrades give you, for about half as much, give you almost no stats, and only 100 more burst damage. Generally you're going to get the Dagon upgrades in the kind of situation where you're buying Dagon at all, but the moment you finish Dagon 1 is definitely the power peak, not the moment you finish Dagon 5. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
If Dagon is your first item you will probably need 90% of your manapool to use all your spells and Dagon 1. That makes Dagon 1 stiff and unflexible as you have to strictly conserve mana and forces you to try 1 combo kills. If you don't have enough mana for full combo, you have 2 options: -Don't use 1 of your hero skills -Don't use Dagon. This is a straightforward choice. BUT the problem is, that Dagon 1 is strictly worse than every lvl 4 nuke or ulti. So if you don't have enough mana, most of the time you will simply not use Dagon. If Dagon 1 is your 2nd or 3rd item, it's "timing" is that much later and that much weaker. I personally think the power peak is more around Dagon 3 and Dagon 4. This is from observation and from looking very sharp at the numbers. | ||
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