EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 477
| Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy |
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34504 Posts
| ||
|
nojok
France15846 Posts
On June 13 2013 08:36 XpNc wrote: How do you win a lifestealer? Lottery ticket and lot of luck. | ||
|
XpNc
Spain64 Posts
On June 13 2013 08:39 Firebolt145 wrote: As or against? against | ||
|
Dead9
United States4725 Posts
a lot of them | ||
|
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34504 Posts
| ||
|
PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
(not that you should ever feel the need to counterpick anyone in a pub really) | ||
|
B1nary
Canada1267 Posts
| ||
|
EtherealBlade
660 Posts
On June 13 2013 11:00 B1nary wrote: I remember at one point a long time ago (maybe 3 or 4 years ago?) Sniper was considered to be a top carry, like PL or AM today. Why was he a top pick back then and what happened since then? Sniper has been getting buffs for years now, and he's a good at what he does - the problem is, he's very susceptible to ganks and there's no way to overcome his fragility against smart enemies. My guess is he fell from grace for the same reason as Shadow Fiend. | ||
|
synapse
China13814 Posts
RAZORRR (static link) | ||
|
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34504 Posts
| ||
|
igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
| ||
|
TOCHMY
Sweden1692 Posts
On June 13 2013 12:25 igotmyown wrote: Yes he was, when you could buy aegis and get 3 charges. LOL I remember when you could buy aegis. But that has to be more than 6 years ago? | ||
|
WuzzupPeeps
130 Posts
 | ||
|
packrat386
United States5077 Posts
| ||
|
Jotoco
Brazil1342 Posts
Yes, first, before boots even. I find the 320 speed adequate for the early game. I go mid, with 2 branches, 1 gauntlet, 1 ring of protection, 1 clarity and 1 tango. I harass like mad, spamming my nether blast to harass and to last hit, if necessary, and soon I have a a Sage's mask and a Void Stone, and allows me to spam my spells even more, since it gives me so much regen. Around level 6 sometimes I am able to get a perseverance online and killing me is hard because I'm always full HP. Next is a HP or Point Booster, depending on wether I am getting easy farm or not and need the extra HP NOW. After I finish my Bloodstone I am reasonably survivable, have mana to spare and am a great team fighter. I try to build a Boots of Travel then, to push as I was a Furion and always be in the team fights. Then an Aghanin's, because his ulti is so good. And then according to the game, but generally teamfight items. What do you think of this? Does it only work on mid-level pubs where I play? Or can this be legitimate? Thanks, Maybe a not-so-simple question, but I didn't think it warranted a thread. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Typical build is Arcanes+Mek--which you should hit around that timing. You have to abuse that timing to win the game with him. | ||
|
Jotoco
Brazil1342 Posts
On June 14 2013 01:40 TheYango wrote: Bloodstone is simply not good at the timing Pugna wants to be good. It's too late, and Pugna's power curve peaks at level 8-10 (4 Blast 4 Ward timing push, the exact level depending on whether you got Decrepify or Ultimate). Typical build is Arcanes+Mek--which you should hit around that timing. You have to abuse that timing to win the game with him. I used to play him like this (about 3 to 4 months ago) but I did not enjoy it much, I am enjoying the bloodstone build immensely, but I figured I was not very good. Thanks for the input. | ||
|
WuzzupPeeps
130 Posts
On June 14 2013 01:28 Jotoco wrote: I am experimenting with a build using Pugna and the new and improved Bloodstone as first item (after basilius). Yes, first, before boots even. I find the 320 speed adequate for the early game. I go mid, with 2 branches, 1 gauntlet, 1 ring of protection, 1 clarity and 1 tango. I harass like mad, spamming my nether blast to harass and to last hit, if necessary, and soon I have a a Sage's mask and a Void Stone, and allows me to spam my spells even more, since it gives me so much regen. Around level 6 sometimes I am able to get a perseverance online and killing me is hard because I'm always full HP. Next is a HP or Point Booster, depending on wether I am getting easy farm or not and need the extra HP NOW. After I finish my Bloodstone I am reasonably survivable, have mana to spare and am a great team fighter. I try to build a Boots of Travel then, to push as I was a Furion and always be in the team fights. Then an Aghanin's, because his ulti is so good. And then according to the game, but generally teamfight items. What do you think of this? Does it only work on mid-level pubs where I play? Or can this be legitimate? Thanks, Maybe a not-so-simple question, but I didn't think it warranted a thread. It probably will only work at low to mid level pubs, and here's why: The inherent problems with any build that rush big and expensive items is that you will be fairly useless for a long time. Even if you're doing really really well, the earliest you can expect to pick up a bloodstone is about 18 minutes. Counting all the potentially missed cs, ganks, deaths, tps, you’re looking at about a 25 minute bloodstone on average. During this time, you are not ganking and not grouping with your team to push down towers and that = bad in any high level match. Pugna excels in being a monster of a pusher early who can farm really quickly, so early items like arcane boots and mek are preferred choices to start doing stuff fast. Edit: dammit ninja'd | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Ultimately, regardless of how you play him, Pugna is an early-game focused hero. You need to snowball the game because without a hard disable or heavily scaling damage output, his lategame can only be considered mediocre compared to other lategame casters (Storm, Tinker, Leshrac, etc.). As such, it simply does not fit him to farm until Bloodstone. You need earlier item timings to match your earlier power peak. | ||
|
Whole
United States6046 Posts
On June 14 2013 01:16 packrat386 wrote: Maybe not such a simple question, but how do I not be useless as chen? I just played my first game as him, and while I feel I was doing ok going through the jungle (10 minute mek, ended with that + manaboots + drums + aghs + bloodstone) but I feel like I didn't really contribute much in the early game which is where chen is supposed to shine. What should I be doing with which creeps and how can I make an impact that makes it worth it to have chen on your team? You have to gank and push relentlessly. I start out with x1 Tango, x2 Branches, x1 Smoke, Courier & Wards. If someone else is nice enough to get courier or wards, get an earlier Ring of Protection/Sage's Mask (I find it necessary to have some item with Sage's Mask before Mek...or else you're out of mana most of the time). Whenever you get a Satyr or a Wildkin, try to just farm the jungle as fast as possible because they're really good at farming & you can't really gank with them (unless your teammates can secure a kill with only needing a little extra damage). The moment you get a Centaur, Ursa, or Troll creep, pray that your teammates have some basic forms of lane control and they're not feeding creeps to their tower. Smoke (avoiding vision and wards...aka, use it somewhat deep in your jungle because it lasts a while anyway), alert your teammates, get behind the enemy in lane, and gank. Now if the enemy is pushed up at/near your tower (if you can stay smoked in lane), that should be a 100% kill because (aside from Blinks and stuff), even a Centaur will be able to land a stun just from positioning. If they're just a little past the river where you can't do much, but still gankable, you need an ally to set up with a slow or stun. You'll likely want a set up even if you have a Net Creep because they can just simply run away before he is in range. (Now if the enemy has particularly slow move speed & no boots, then you might be able to set up with a Troll) If the enemy is parallel to the river or at his tower, go farm. That's just ganking your safe lane though. If you're offensive jungling, well, the same applies. Only offensive jungle if your hard lane is pretty strong (some strong dual kill lane), and you wouldn't instantly die from the enemy mid and easy lane coming gank you. If you're ganking mid, you're likely going to need some set up unless the enemy is really pushed up. To gank mid, stay smoked just out of vision, ally sets up, and instantly move in and work your magic. If your mid can't set you up, it's probably best to forget about it, unless the enemy is hugging your tower for some reason. Some extra tips: Always buy another smoke after a kill. The movement speed boost is tooooo useful. Even if you're not smoking to make the enemy shit their pants, that movement speed will make ganks easier because if you're ally sets you up, you might be just a little too far behind to catch up (Chen's creeps are really slow after people get boots). It makes ganks simply easier to execute. And 99% of pubs don't buy smoke early game anyway, so it's not like you're fucking up the stock. Don't be afraid to tower dive to squeeze out an extra Test of Faith. Your creeps can tank the tower. You should just need one Ursa, Centaur, or Troll creep for a gank. If you're level 5 and you have more than one, that's great! But if you have a Satyr and one of those ganking creeps, still gank. That's ganking though. How about pushing. Just realize that you push really fast, and that even though you need an ally to set you up for a gank, if an enemy comes to you (to stop your push), you can just Centaur Stun, Net, or Clap them. So if you ganked your safe lane successfully, push it. Now if your farming carry is reasonably good but is not playing someone who can farm the jungle, you might want to leave that tower up. Otherwise, I'd just push it because he can farm the jungle when the lane is deep on their side. Overall, it's best to ask so you won't get flamed for not pushing/pushing the tower too early. If you ganked the mid lane, push it. I don't like leaving mid towers up because of Rosh. Especially if I'm Dire -- Radiant's only good Rosh counter is Mid T1. But if you failed to get the kill, but weakened the enemy, you can push. Understand that, in the early game, you are very strong if you have creeps and get engaged on. When people engage, you land all creep spells and don't underestimate two creeps auto attacking someone at level 5. Now if you see people porting in, you probably wanna back the fuck off because you can assume that they're ready to fight. Another big push opportunity is when mid goes to gank. If mid leaves lane to gank, unless you're sure you can counter gank your safe lane (your creeps won't reach the hard lane of course), punish him by taking his tower. Inform your mid that you're coming to push, and push it. The enemy mid either has to abandon the gank or lose the tower. Pushing your hard lane is tricky business because of the travel time. If you come out a skirmish with just a little health and mana, but your creeps are in reasonable health, you can send yourself to fountain, creeps to hard lane, and then port in to gank/push. But it depends on whose in that lane. If they're not particularly good pushers or set up for a gank (because it'll likely be your second solo on the hard lane), then you might not be able to gank/push it at all. Now you said you got a 10 minute Mek. That's amazing, but you need to realize you need to do something with that. If I get a 10-15 minute Mek, I get my whole team to 5 man down some towers or get a strong 3 man push going to force a reaction (if I have some ricing carry that wouldn't contribute to a 5 man push). If you have a 10 minute Mek, but come out of the jungle at minute 17, then it's not really a 10 minute Mek. Now if the enemy team has just amazing anti push/teamfight to crush your 5 man pushes or if your team just isn't listening to group and push down a tower, then you better just bend over and accept that you won't be doing anything spectacular in that particular game. Did I type too much 0_o edit: Here's an excerpt from another long ass Chen post that I did. Focuses more on late game creeps. + Show Spoiler + On May 14 2013 05:54 hooahah wrote: also after I got boots, all of my creeps were slow and usually late to the party. Landing a Cent/Ursa stun with how slow they are seems semi-impossible. I start giving up on MLG creep plays about mid game. I used to try so hard, but I was spending too much attention to micro for no reward. When teamfights start happening, you really want auras. Now, Centaur gives an aura, so he is still a good creep, and if you can chain a stun with it, do it, but don't stress. Mostly, I find myself using the Centaur to stun for a retreat or to stun some idiot who is way too deep. Just don't stress about using the spells too much. Because Ursas don't give an aura, I try to ignore them. So usually, I look for Speed Aura, Armor Aura, Centaur Aura, Alpha Wolves depending on whose the carry (someone who can benefit early), and Ice Ogres for the mid game. And Troll creeps. I don't know what the fuck Valve renamed them to be, but Troll Warlords are the best. They don't give an aura, but DAT NET. My favorite mid game composition is 3 Troll Warlords. My favorite late game composition is 2 Troll Warlords and 1 Alpha Wolf. You can't go wrong. There is no chance to fail with them and they're pretty much just as good as the other CC because you will always hit it. And the best part. Net goes through BKB It can really wreck carries. Melee carries can't attack, ranged carries can't kite. Also, those skeletons are amazing. Two skeletons are nice. But if you ever get 3 Troll creeps. Just try pushing. 3x skeletons are ridiculous. But of course, if you need to play fast paced, you can't be picky, so just get what you can and do your best. It's expected that you won't be able to land stuns and stuff late game. They are in fact, too slow. | ||
| ||
