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On March 10 2015 02:36 DinoMight wrote:
How does Tinker handle Zeus at mid? Who wins this on paper?
The issue I was having was that his burst damage outranged my laser so he was able to keep me back from the keep wave but I couldn't do the same to him. I bought a magic stick but he doesn't spam his spells quite enough to make it worth it, I realized.
Never died, just kind of went underfarmed for a while.
Enchantress in the jungle wasn't really helping w/ healing or tangos but whatever.
My thoughts on the matter aren't worth very much, but in that sort of match-up wouldn't you want to prioritize MotM and use that to establish dominance especially if he tries to leave the lane to participate in ganks or teamfights? Especially with his poor attack range he would be forced to focus on last hitting with spells rather than right clicks.
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On March 10 2015 02:39 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 02:36 DinoMight wrote:
How does Tinker handle Zeus at mid? Who wins this on paper?
The issue I was having was that his burst damage outranged my laser so he was able to keep me back from the keep wave but I couldn't do the same to him. I bought a magic stick but he doesn't spam his spells quite enough to make it worth it, I realized.
Never died, just kind of went underfarmed for a while.
Enchantress in the jungle wasn't really helping w/ healing or tangos but whatever. My thoughts on the matter aren't worth very much, but in that sort of match-up wouldn't you want to prioritize MotM and use that to establish dominance especially if he tries to leave the lane to participate in ganks or teamfights? Especially with his poor attack range he would be forced to focus on last hitting with spells rather than right clicks.
My issue with using MotM is that it pushes the lane out too much and you become vulnerable to ganks trying to get last hits.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 10 2015 02:36 DinoMight wrote:
The issue I was having was that his burst damage outranged my laser so he was able to keep me back from the keep wave but I couldn't do the same to him. I bought a magic stick but he doesn't spam his spells quite enough to make it worth it, I realized.
He's forced to spam spells if you control the lane sufficiently to force him to use Arc Lightning to lasthit, due to his low base damage and abysmal range. If you let him comfortably lasthit with right-clicks despite having 350 range and 45 base damage, then yes, it won't feel like you're gaining charges fast enough.
Yes, his spell range is longer than yours. But his autoattack range isn't. You have to abuse your significantly higher base damage and autoattack range.
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its fine to push the lane time to time for runes and stacks. max motm lets u clear neutrals so fast its worth it even in dire to go stack hard/med camps. Just make a deal with enchantress or whatever jungler to leave 1 or 2 camps for u and he takes rest.
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Also, we played a Sniper that went Midas the other day. Lost because of various feeding issues across our lanes, but wondering if Midas on Sniper is actually a thing...
I know that he would benefit from the item given enough time to farm etc, but isn't it just a touch greedy??
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midas on everybody is a thing
sniper is definitely a good midas user
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It's pretty greedy but that can be OK. Sniper can farm well, but he benefits from both the AS on Midas and the faster leveling; shrapnel is of course mandatory early skill this patch (was underrated before imo but now...) and max Headshot and Shoot More Far can be real hard to deal with before enemy initiators get strong.
Obviously gold on Sniper is good too.
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So what kind of starting items / support characters etc. would you want if you're going for midas on Sniper? To mitigate the greediness of the build I guess.
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On March 10 2015 06:09 DinoMight wrote:
So what kind of starting items / support characters etc. would you want if you're going for midas on Sniper? To mitigate the greediness of the build I guess.
Definitely more about picks than items. A Midas carry is always going to take longer to come online, with the exception of games where they get it very early (and then their timing change is very hero dependent). If you can't make space long enough with your lineups not much you can do.
As far as supports I don't know. I like Venge for making space assuming your other cores can capitalize on her abilities. Earthshaker is a great defensive support obviously (and can set up some great skills). KotL played a certain way can create lane pressure at parts of the map away from your carry (some lineups are better at dealing with this than others). Lion is also a good support for warding off aggression who can also roam and make space as the game allows. I don't like playing either as support, but Jakiro and Pugna demand attention if the enemy team doesn't want to lose their towers in a hurry, and Jakiro's defensive icepaths can retard early aggression.
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So basically anyone with a stun/zoning capabilities to make sure you don't get hosed early. Sounds good!
TY.
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Yeah sorta. Defensive support can only last so long if the other team isn't feeling pressure. They are going to see a midas carry - if they have any sense - and work as a team to shut him down. Defensive supports can help get your carry through the early game but usually can't retard 3-5 players effectively; good aggression/push is usually what it takes to carry them deep into the midgame at which point most midas carries should be able to help you win some fights.
Another good one for this is Rhasta, come to think of it. Good babysitter early and starts demanding attention when he gets wards.
I'm not an expert on this subject so some people will be able to give you better ideas. Also this would be a good reason to reference the Art of Support series here which I believe addresses this specific issue.
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I was watching Merlini playing Weaver and had a lot of difficulty throning against Sniper despite having mega. He finally sold his BoT and buy Necro 3.
Why is Necro 3 a good 6-slot item in this case? He has way more money than he can spend.
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On March 10 2015 14:25 Quochobao wrote:
I was watching Merlini playing Weaver and had a lot of difficulty throning against Sniper despite having mega. He finally sold his BoT and buy Necro 3.
Why is Necro 3 a good 6-slot item in this case? He has way more money than he can spend.
The idea was to just keep sending Necro minions to the tier 4s for a little damage each cooldown. But they got a good engagement and wiped the enemy before it mattered.
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On March 10 2015 14:27 Whole wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 14:25 Quochobao wrote:
I was watching Merlini playing Weaver and had a lot of difficulty throning against Sniper despite having mega. He finally sold his BoT and buy Necro 3.
Why is Necro 3 a good 6-slot item in this case? He has way more money than he can spend. The idea was to just keep sending Necro minions to the tier 4s for a little damage each cooldown. But they got a good engagement and wiped the enemy before it mattered.
How much could the necrominions do compare with say, another daedelus? One hit from weaver probably means a lot more than multiple necrominions hit
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but hitting the ancient yourself puts you at risk, with necros you just rightclick them on buildings and forget about them while you stay safe and farm.
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On March 10 2015 14:49 l3loodraven wrote:
but hitting the ancient yourself puts you at risk, with necros you just rightclick them on buildings and forget about them while you stay safe and farm.
I understand that in theory, just wonder in practice how much damage the necros can do (~ 100 each hit).
Do you know of a VOD that uses necro to siege effectively? I'd love to watch it.
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Hi,
Got stuck in low priority (rage quit a ranked game because, seriously, everyone I play with is a fucking jerk) and randomed Slark. First time playing Slark.
I really like him. Was able to farm pretty easily without dying too often. Had some difficulty landing his leap on an enemy hero though. That seems like a tricky one.
Is there a trick you guys use, or a special technique that makes it easier? Or do you just eyeball how far he jumps and kind of practice it for a while? He jumps in the same direction he's going which is kind of like force staff, but you also have to estimate the distance and land right on top of the hero you want to shackle it seems....
Won the game handily which was nice. I will try him again.
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i mean its like any skillshot, you just practice and git gud with it...
also pretty much all high level slark players go either blink or shadowblade, which makes pounces a lot easier in general.
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On March 10 2015 15:25 DinoMight wrote:
Hi,
Got stuck in low priority (rage quit a ranked game because, seriously, everyone I play with is a fucking jerk) and randomed Slark. First time playing Slark.
I really like him. Was able to farm pretty easily without dying too often. Had some difficulty landing his leap on an enemy hero though. That seems like a tricky one.
Is there a trick you guys use, or a special technique that makes it easier? Or do you just eyeball how far he jumps and kind of practice it for a while? He jumps in the same direction he's going which is kind of like force staff, but you also have to estimate the distance and land right on top of the hero you want to shackle it seems....
Won the game handily which was nice. I will try him again.
A lot easier with blink or shadow blade. Say you go shadow blade, go next to the guy, hit once and IMMEDIATELY jump and you'll hit him.
What makes it easy is that since he doesn't see you, he'll keep going straight instead of dodging. So you can just line yourself up to the direction he's going, then hit and jump.
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On March 10 2015 02:36 DinoMight wrote:
How does Tinker handle Zeus at mid? Who wins this on paper?
The issue I was having was that his burst damage outranged my laser so he was able to keep me back from the keep wave but I couldn't do the same to him. I bought a magic stick but he doesn't spam his spells quite enough to make it worth it, I realized.
Never died, just kind of went underfarmed for a while.
Enchantress in the jungle wasn't really helping w/ healing or tangos but whatever.
EDIT - opened with null talisman and 2 branches to help w last hits a bit and bought bottle then BoT directly. Crowing bottle for health/mana but Zeus kept zapping me (that shit hurts).
This matchup just happened yesterday and things went like you described, empire vs 4SC in joindota proleague, it's not up on youtube yet but it should be soon. Casters spent a good amount of time on this mid matchup so you can give a look to it.
But yeah, I think that both sides rely on supports to get a kill until zeus get 6, in which case, the extra burst from ulti should make tinker played very defensively.
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EPT
