[Hero] Zeus

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synapse

China13814 Posts

March 27 2014 05:23 GMT

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THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE!

synapse's GUIDE to playing ZEUS the Lord of Heaven

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sup TL. I was actually gonna write a guide for 8k but I got really lazy.

Zeus doesn't see much competitive play, as he's a weak solo mid in a variety of ways. BUT THAT DON'T MEAN HE SUCK. Look at his Dotabuff winrate: 55%? Hory smoke das a big number. I'm sure anyone with a decent number of games has seen ye olde Aghanims-Refresher instant rampage. Agh-Refresher certainly isn't bad, but this guide aims to outline some (maybe) less conventional itemizations that might be more useful in higher MMR ranges or -cm.

(I will be specifically considering Zeus as a solo mid hero)

TABLE OF CONTENTS

I. Lore - II. Pros & Cons
III. Stats - IV. Alt-Tab Guide
V. When to Pick
VI. Skills - VII. Skill Build
VIII. Item Build
IX. Playstyle & Discussion
X. Friends & Foes
XI. MATH - XII. Final Words
Other Resources

I. Lore

Lord of Heaven, father of gods, Zeus treats all the Heroes as if they are his rambunctious, rebellious children. After being caught unnumbered times in the midst of trysts with countless mortal women, his divine wife finally gave him an ultimatum: 'If you love mortals so much, go and become one. If you can prove yourself faithful, then return to me as my immortal husband. Otherwise, go and die among your creatures.' Zeus found her logic (and her magic) irrefutable, and agreed to her plan. He has been on his best behavior ever since, being somewhat fonder of immortality than he is of mortals. But to prove himself worthy of his eternal spouse, he must continue to pursue victory on the field of battle.

Lore TL;DR: Gracious waifu in heaven says "Zeussypoo go slay some mortals for me"

II. Pros & Cons

Why Zeus is the best:

One of the strongest nukers in the game
Very potent ganks with a mobility item
Free detection
KS Assist teammates globally
Interrupt TPs every 6 sec!!!
Your kill participation % will be so high, new dotabuff record inc.
Your damage dealt stat will be so high, new dotabuff record inc.
YOU CAN'T RUN FROM HEAVEN

What makes him balanced:

Awful attack animation and attack range
Awful AGI gain (plus the above cons) means your lategame transition is weak
Lacking in lockdown
Somewhat mana hungry
Lacking in escape mechanism
Really short (Volvo pls remodel)

III. Stats

Important stats: 2.3 STR gain, 1.2 AGI gain, 2.7 INT gain. 295 Movespeed, 350 Attack range, 0.633 Frontswing.
Note that Zeus's STR gain is particularly high for an INT hero--hooray!
This is a very good thing because you're slow and have no (innate) way to run from things.

You can check the full stats here.

IV. Alt-Tab Guide

+ Show Spoiler [Alt-Tab guide] +

Go mid, bottle rush start (tangoes / tango pool + branches).
1st skill point in Arc Lightning. Last hit with Q (Arc Lightning) and skill one point in Static Field (E) then max out Lightning Bolt (W), taking ult at 6/11/16.

Standard early item build is bottle, wand, arcane boots. Try to get some kills with your power spike at level 6 and 7. Keep an eye out on the minimap to see if you can assist any kills with your ultimate. Alternative is bottle -> soul ring -> phase boots. Remember to buy wards for yourself to see uphill!

Core items: Blink Dagger -> Scythe of Vyse is my preference. Force Staff if you're really poor and can't save up for a blink. Consider Eul's to purge silence and mana regen a bit more (and move faster). Luxury extension here is Linken's Sphere, Shiva's Guard, etc.

If you're going for straight up nuke damage, consider [Veil of Discord] + Aghanim's Scepter + Refresher Orb.

V. When to Pick

Zeus feeds on squishy heroes in the midgame. If you see an absence of STR heroes on the enemy team, or just a lot of low-HP supports, you want to start thinking about getting heroes that can just nuke them to death. He also provides true sight off of his W and ult, so catching those annoying little bounty hunters and QW invokers (since QW invokers are in every goddamn game nowadays) becomes less annoying.

Zeus doesn't contribute a lot of pushing power or counterpush. If your team needs a mid who can simply dish out a lot of magic damage and has a global presence, then Zeus is a great candidate. Aggressive team comps will synergize well with Zeus. Kill people and end the game early.

VI. Skills

Arc Lightning + Show Spoiler [Tooltip] +

Ability: Target Unit
Affects: Enemy Heroes
Damage: Magical

Hurls a bolt of lightning that leaps through nearby enemy units.

Cast Range: 850
Bounce Distance: 500
Number Of Bounces: 5 / 7 / 9 / 15
Damage: 85 / 100 / 115 / 145
Cooldown: 1.75 seconds
Mana: 65 / 70 / 75 / 80

Partially blocked by Linken's Sphere. Spell will be blocked if the Hero is the main target. They are still subject to being hit from the jump.

Arc Lightning is Zeus' favourite spell to use against puny mortals.

Arc Lightning is somewhat useful as a nuke due to its long range and short CD, but is mostly used for last hitting in the early laning phase (850 range and 85 damage versus your 350 autoattack range and ~50 damage). It synergizes well with your passive Static Field, and will do a lot of damage if you can live long enough to cast it multiple times in a teamfight. Getting used to its cast animation is essential for last hitting in lane.

Lightning Bolt + Show Spoiler [Tooltip] +

Ability: Target Unit
Affects: Enemy Heroes
Damage: Magical

Summons a bolt of lightning to strike an enemy unit, causing damage and a ministun. Lightning Bolt also provides True Sight around the target in a radius of 900.
Cast Range: 700
Damage: 100 / 175 / 275 / 350
Cooldown: 6 seconds
Mana: 75 / 95 / 115 / 135

A shocking punishment for rebellious heathens.

NOW WE'RE TALKIN! 350 damage targetted nuke on a 6 second cooldown? Sweet Hera's tits that's a lot of damage. This is one of the best nukes in the game, and for a number of reasons. 1) It has a ministun to go with it, meaning you can cancel a lot of channeling spells and TPs and stuff. 2) No missile speed, meaning no goddamn Pucks screwing with you and dodging all your shit. 3) It provides true sight around the target, which means you can deward your lane with it or catch people who are trying to run away with shadowblade or whatever. Often times, you can aggro jungle creeps to spots where you want to deward or you think the enemy has warded (high ground wards, near magic bush on Radiant, etc.).

Note that the scaling is a bit weird, you get +100 +75 +100 +75 for each level respectively. Normally, level 5 constitutes a large power spike as you will have a 275 damage nuke to work with. Lightning bolt the enemy mid laner once, and if they don't leave, they're already in a lot of danger. Also note that the 700 range on it is the shortest of all your spells. Due to how slow Zeus is, often the problem becomes that you aren't in range to hit anyone with Lightning bolt rather than running out of mana or waiting for cooldown timers.

Static Field + Show Spoiler [Tooltip] +

Ability: Passive
Affects: Enemy Units
Damage: Magical

Zeus shocks all nearby enemy units whenever he casts a spell, causing damage proportional to their current health.
Radius: 1000
Health Reduction: 5% / 7% / 9% / 11%

The air crackles with static when the Thunder God walks the world.

It's hard to quantify how useful this spell is since the damage happens in little bits on targets that you're not really paying attention to. With magic resistance factored in, Static Field will hit targets within 1000 range for ~9% of their health. By simply being in range of enemies in a teamfight and casting spells, you chunk off 40% of their health with 5 or 6 spells (remember the 1.75 second cooldown on Arc Lightning). That's a lot of damage (as long as you can stay alive in fights for long enough).

Note that Static Field will hit invisible targets as well, though it's impossible to kill anyone with just Static Field (11% of 1hp will round down to 0, not to mention HP regen).

Thundergod's Wrath + Show Spoiler [Tooltip] +

Ability: No Target
Affects: All Enemy Heroes
Damage: Magical

Radius: Global
Damage: 225/350/475 (440/540/640*)
Sight Radius: 1000
True Sight Radius: 900
Sight/True Sight Duration: 3 seconds
Cooldown: 90 seconds
Mana: 225 / 325 / 450

Partially blocked by Magic Immunity. Damage is ignored, but Hero is still revealed.
Can be Improved by Aghanim's Scepter (* shows the improved values). Increases damage.

The Lord of Heaven smites all who oppose him, near or far.

And here we have the ultimate that kills everyone, on a 90 second cooldown. Aghanim's Scepter will buff the damage of this spell significantly, and being able to ulti twice will instantly kill supports if you can get that Refresher Orb early enough in the game. Of course, playing Zeus doesn't mean you have to itemize around this ultimate; the skill is incredibly powerful by itself if you get quick levels.

**VERY IMPORTANT**

Zeus's ultimate DOES NOT hit invisible units. BUT it provides true sight around the hero. No doubt this is useful if your teammates are trying to catch some pesky invoker who's just ghostwalked. What's interesting here is the order in which Zeus's ult will hit enemies. Thundergod's Wrath will hit foes in the order that they are listed in-game (meaning from left to right for the hero icons at the top of the screen, or from top to bottom on the scoreboard). What this means is that if the invisible hero is 2nd on the list and the hero who is 1st on the list is within 900 range of him, then the invisible hero WILL be hit by Thundergod's Wrath. So pray to Zeus that the enemy riki is 5th.

Also important: since smoke of deceit doesn't get revealed by true sight anymore, smoked enemies will not show up (but you'll still get the vision around them so you'll know where they are).

VII. Skill Build

You will always max out Lightning Bolt by level 7 and take Thundergod's Wrath whenever possible (6/11/16). The standard skill priority is Thundergod's Wrath > Lightning Bolt > Static Field > Arc Lightning, but we want a point in Arc Lightning first to last hit with.

      Standard Skill Build

      1 Arc Lightning
      2 Static Field
      3 Lightning Bolt
      4 Lightning Bolt
      5 Lightning Bolt
      6 Thundergod's Wrath
      7 Lightning Bolt
      8 Static Field
      9 Static Field
      10 Static Field
      11 Thundergod's Wrath
      12 Arc Lightning*
      13 Arc Lightning
      14 Arc Lightning
      15 Stats
      16 Thundergod's Wrath
      17+ Stats

      + Show Spoiler +

      Depending on lane, potentially:

      1 Arc Lightning
      2 Lightning Bolt
      3 Lightning Bolt
      4 Static Field
      5 Lightning Bolt
      6 Thundergod's Wrath
      7 Lightning Bolt
      8 Static Field
      9 Static Field
      10 Static Field
      11 Thundergod's Wrath
      12 Arc Lightning*
      13 Arc Lightning
      14 Arc Lightning
      15 Stats
      16 Thundergod's Wrath
      17+ Stats

      This second skill build differs only from levels 2-4; in some cases, against squishier opponents, you may be able to
      kill them at level 3 with an early two points in Lightning Bolt. You can personally make this judgment call.

      Arc Lightning second max:

      1 Arc Lightning
      2 Static Field
      3 Lightning Bolt
      4 Lightning Bolt
      5 Lightning Bolt
      6 Thundergod's Wrath
      7 Lightning Bolt
      8 Arc Lightning
      9 Arc Lightning
      10 Arc Lightning
      11 Thundergod's Wrath
      12 Static Field
      13 Static Field
      14 Static Field
      15 Stats
      16 Thundergod's Wrath
      17+ Stats

       Maxing Arc Lightning second will help considerably versus push lineups with a lot of summons (eidolons, treants)

VIII. Item Build

Starting Items

The standard Bottle Rush Start. If possible, have your teammates pool you 1-2 tangoes and go to lane with just 3x branches and maybe a clarity. If you're really greedy you can get away with just 1-2 branches and a tango pool + clarity. Your goal is not to win the lane, but to make sure that you don't get denied too often and bottle crow to continue getting safe exp and farm.

A more aggressive set of starting items if you're up for it. I would only do this versus certain melee mids or heroes with very low base damage (invoker, sf, etc.). Mantles turn into Nulls and Null can be made into Veil later on.

Early Game

Bottle is important, as Zeus needs mana for Arc Lightning to secure last hits. Magic Wand will save your life.

Situational Early Game:

Null Talismans give you better damage and a larger mana pool to work with. As we all know from Arteezy, they're OP, so buying a Null or two will definitely help you win your lane. If you're just bottle crowing and pressing Q for last hits, don't bother. Soul Ring is an item that Merlini really likes to get right after his bottle rush since he doesn't like to build Arcanes. Technically, Soul Ring gives you better mana regen since it's 150 every 30 seconds + extra % mana regen compared to Arcane Boots' 100 mana every 55 seconds.

Urn of Shadows is a situational item that can prevent you from needing to heal up at fountain after fights. Would only consider this item in very heavy ganking lineups, as you need to be involved in a lot of kills for this item to be useful. Observer Wards are important for keeping high ground vision both when going for a kill and to watch out for ganks. More details on warding spots in playstyle section.

The most standard choice of boots on Zeus is Arcane Boots, and they're certainly not bad. The most important aspect of Arcanes is that it greatly increases your total mana POOL, as the actual mana regen from the item is pretty shitty for the holder (135 minus 35 mana on a 55 second cooldown).

Let's consider two other options: Phase Boots and Boots of Travel. If you opted for a Soul Ring over Arcanes for mana, phase boots are pretty legitimate since they give you stronger lane presence and better rune control. Boots of Travel is situationally nice if you're ahead and have the money to spend, as it gives you a true global presence for ganking and counter-ganking.

Core

With these items, you too can pretend to be Puck!
The areas in which Zeus is most lacking is 1) mobility and 2) lockdown. Blink Dagger and Scythe of Vyse are certainly not the cheapest items to farm, but with any luck (and some global "assist" gold) your midgame will be successful enough that a blink can be gotten ~12-14 minutes in and a sheep is within reach by 25 minutes (if you're steamrolling or have perfect CS then you'll have these items even earlier). Blink truly makes Zeus one of the scariest nukers in the game. By mid-late game you'll need more utility out of your midlaner, and blink-sheep keeps Zeus relevant all game long.

Alternative:

Force Staff is kind of like the poor man's blink dagger. Zeus definitely needs a little something for positioning; you'll find that without force or blink (or phase boots) you're struggling to get in range to land your Lightning Bolt. Force Staff can also certainly be bought in combination with Blink Dagger, since Force Staff doesn't get put on cooldown when taking damage.

Veil of Discord is probably the most cost-efficient item when it comes to maximizing your magic damage. Rushing straight for Veil after upgrading boots is also OK, especially if you're having trouble saving up for the big parts

Aghanim's-Refresher (More Situational):

Not too much to explain here. If you want that epic double ulti rampage, you go Aghanim's Scepter and Refresher Orb. Generally, you want to buy the Aghanim's first since it provides more relevant stats (a sizable HP boost) and is more effective for earlier ranks of Thundergod's Wrath. Generally this pair of items is not preferable, as it takes a LONG time tto farm and makes you useless for a good 10-15 minutes of the game; I would only go Aghs-Refresher if you're stomping really really hard.

Situational:

Ghost Scepter allows you to stay alive when that scary Ursa blinks on top of you. Drum of Endurance is an item you can consider if you're a bit behind on items, need a bit of quick tankiness (with an easy buildup) and are 5manning.

Eul's Scepter of Divinity is one of those items that a lot of people blindly buy. There are several good points to the item: it's cheap, gives you much needed movespeed, and helps out your mana pool / mana regen. Most notably, this item allows you to purge silences on yourself (it's a really nice counter to Orchid carriers without needing BKB), and also synergizes well with your blink dagger since you can use it to wait out most of the 3 second hero-damage cooldown and immediately blink after Euls'ing yourself. However, keep in mind that the movespeed definitely cannot replace the mobility given by Blink Dagger or Force Staff, and the disable is far inferior to that of Scythe of Vyse's (usually Eul's works to supplement certain heroes' lack of ability to cancel a channeling spell / TP; Zeus does not need that), and it gives 0 defensive stats.

REALLY Situational:

Rod of Atos provides decent stats and a strong active, but overall is just worse as a defensive or utility item compared to the other options listed above. Necronomicon if you really need to push and end the game before their carry gets out of hand or something (or if your team is just going for a push strat and you need the necro minions to make up for your lack of pushing power).

Extension

Ethereal Blade is one of my favorite items on Zeus in the later stages of the game. Amps your nuke damage, works as a long range slow, prevents you from taking physical damage, prevents non-BKB'd enemy carries from dishing out physical damage, etc. You can mess with carries once their BKB's have run out or potentially save teammates who are dying to right-click.

Shiva's Guard is the standard choice for supplementing your shitty armor values (1.2 AGI gain hurts). Zeus actually has pretty decent STR gain for an INT hero, so you want to buy more armor to be able to get the most efficient EHP. Linken's Sphere is a strong defensive choice versus enemy teams with important targetted spells (doom, bat, etc.), and you can place the buff on teammates too if you're not the one getting focused by those spells.

Luxury / Situational Lategame

If you didn't build Aghanim's-Refresher as your core, you can still consider Refresher Orb in your luxury 5th/6th slot items. Being able to Refresh a 475 damage nuke and re-sheep someone is incredibly powerful. If you somehow become enough of a threat in the lategame that the entire enemy team is diving you every fight, Black King Bar or maybe even a Heart of Tarrasque might help you stay alive.

[image loading]

If you didn't get an early Boots of Travel, replace your Arcane Boots with one since you really don't need the mana pool / regen that it gives once you have a big INT item. Slot efficiency becomes very important in the lategame.

Rejected:

Bloodstone just isn't good. You don't gain anything from having so much extra mana regen, the flat HP is inferior to getting an armor item (Shiva's), and it provides no utility besides being able to suicide. Orchid Malevolence gives you a nice boost in solo-killing power, but you will rarely be in such a situation and generally don't want to stay in 350 range of enemies anyway. You would need both a blink and an orchid to catch people and solo-kill them with orchid, and that would just come way too late in the game).

IX. Playstyle & Item Build Discussion

Early game with Zeus is pretty simple; you go mid, you try to get a decent block, you last hit with Arc Lightning, start harassing the enemy with Lightning Bolt once you have 2-3 points in it, take runes when you can, then make sure some enemies die around your lvl 6~7. Some intricacies to playing solo mid can be read up on in this guide.

There are a few tricks you need to use as Zeus. The one thing you want to abuse the most is the fact that your Lightning Bolt and Thundergod's Wrath provide vision of your target for 3 seconds. Your "combo" should usually start with Lightning Bolt since even though starting with the weakest spells would do the most Static Field damage, you don't want to lose vision of your enemy and it's common to find yourself out of the 700 range that your Lightning Bolt needs (if you're 100% sure you won't lose vision of the enemy hero, Arc first does more damage). If the hero you're trying to kill is juking you through trees, you can use your ultimate to find them and then finish them off with the rest of your nukes.

Remember that Zeus's Lightning Bolt includes a ministun. If you don't need to immediately use it, try to save it for when your target tries to TP out. If you're quick enough, you can also use the ministun on Lightning Bolt to cancel some longer cast animation spells, like Earthshaker's Fissure or Leshrac's Split Earth. Like most spellcasters, POSITIONING is also super important on Zeus. Unless you're chasing someone, try to stay at the very edge of your spell ranges. Zeus has good STR gain but still won't be too difficult to kill.

Zeus's strength peaks around 10-20 minutes in the game, before BKB's start coming online and while enemies are still relatively squishy and die to a few of your nukes. Because Zeus has no strong disables or physical damage, you want to be able to achieve enough of a lead in this timeframe that the enemy's lategame isn't a big threat. Make sure you take good fights (and a LOT of fights--remember to spam your Q as well for Static Field damage!), try to secure an advantage going into and throughout the midgame, and hopefully you'll be useful with your sheep if the game drags on past 35,40 minutes.

~~~

I think the best way I can characterize Zeus is that his nuking power is obviously item-independent but the strength of his game impact past 20-25 minutes is HEAVILY item dependent. You naturally have no escape mechanism, low movement speed, poor lockdown skills, and poor physical damage output. This is why phase boots, blink, and force staff are all really useful.

That being said, farming more than Boots + Blink + 1-2 items means you're probably sitting around farming too much or dragging out the game too long. Utility items supplement Zeus's shitty lategame but what you really want to do is translate the advantage you have from a strong midgame into towers and barracks (or space for your hard carry if the rest of your team has lategame). The ONE thing that you DON'T want to do is sit around in lane / jungle slowly farming up an Aghanim's and Refresher; too many players fall into the trap of thinking that getting these two items will ensure a win.

Merlini's item build on Zeus (nowadays) goes something like Bottle Rush -> Soul Ring -> Brown Boots -> Drum of Endurance OR save up for Boots of Travel -> Force Staff -> Veil / Aghs / Refresher.

My personal build is Bottle Rush -> Arcanes -> Blink -> Sheep -> Linken's/Eblade. I think with the new no-mana-cost Blink Dagger, it's an absolute must-buy. The most cost-effective items afterwards would be Veil and Eul's; Veil is best when your teammates also nuke hard, and Eul's helps save you from enemies with silences.

*gonna add some screenshots with stuff you can do with lightning bolt true sight (dewarding) and spell ranges, where to place obs wards in mid, etc.

X. Hero Synergy & Counters

This is by no means a complete list, but it should give you some idea of what types of heroes are good to play with, play against, or avoid.

Play With:

Bloodseeker, Nature's Prophet, and Ancient Apparition all have good global synergy with you. Bloodseeker's passive will always let you see exactly how much HP a low-HP enemy has, meaning you'll never miss an ult snipe. Prophet's ultimate works perfectly in conjunction with yours since Wrath of Nature only hits enemies that are in vision and Thundergod's Wrath provides that vision. Ancient Apparition also supplements your global presence with his ultimate.

Play Against:

Sand King, Mirana, and Riki all have invisibility aspects of their kits nullified by the true sight that your Lightning Bolt and Thundergod's Wrath provide. Lightning bolt a creep near where Sand King is channeling sandstorm, then kill him. If you suspect / know that a Mirana ult'd gank is incoming, your ult will find out where they are and hit most of them anyway if they're close together. Riki is squishy and doesn't like it when you can see him. Weaver's linkens is also easily popped, and since he is naturally very squishy, your nukes will give true sight and let your team burst him down very quickly.

Squishies are food for a Zeus who has decent levels. A lot of these heroes provide very strong nukes and stuns but are easily killed with magic damage nukes (Enchantress in particular is hard to kill with autoattacks due to Untouchable, but is quite easy to deal with if you have powerful nukes).

Also BH and Clinkz, as they're both squishy and try to go invis but they're a bit harder to catch.

Avoid:

The mid laners you're going to have the hardest time with are probably Outworld Devourer and Templar Assassin. Zeus can reveal a melded TA but has no way of burning through her Refraction charges (not to mention she outdamages your Arc Lightning at level 1 with Refraction). OD is pretty much a complete counter to any INT mids, and he will easily outdamage your Arc Lightning after a few levels. Huskar shrugs off your magic damage and dives you from afar.

XI. MATH

Static Field makes the actual damage that Zeus does a little bit annoying to calculate. So let's do some math to see what HP an enemy hero needs to be at for you to instantly kill them.

We're gonna assume the combo is Lightning Bolt -> Arc Lightning -> Ulti (+Ulti for refresher) and 25% magic resist.
Working backwards, we do nuke damage + static field dmg and repeat.

LVL 7 [1/4/1/1] - Static Field @lvl1: 1/(1-(.75)(.05)) = 1.03896
Combo:       (((168.75)*(1.03896)+63.75)*(1.03896)+262.5)*(1.03896) = 530 damage (425 mana)

LVL 10 [1/4/4/1] - Static Field @lvl4: 1/(1-(.75)(.11)) = 1.0899
Combo:       (((168.75)*(1.0899)+63.75)*(1.0899)+262.5)*(1.0899) = 580 damage (425 mana)

LVL 11 [1/4/4/2] - Static Field @lvl4: 0.75((1/.89)-1)+1 = 1.0899
Combo:       (((262.5)*(1.0899)+63.75)*(1.0899)+262.5)*(1.0899) = 701 damage (525 mana)
Aghs:       (((405)*(1.0899)+63.75)*(1.0899)+262.5)*(1.0899) = 886 damage (525 mana)

LVL 16 [4/4/4/3] - Static Field @lvl4: 0.75((1/.89)-1)+1 = 1.0899
Combo:       (((356.25)*(1.0899)+108.75)*(1.0899)+262.5)*(1.0899) = 876 damage (665 mana)
Aghs:       (((480)*(1.0899)+108.75)*(1.0899)+262.5)*(1.0899) = 1036 damage (665 mana)
Refresh:       ((((480)*(1.0899)+480)*(1.0899)+108.75)*(1.0899)+262.5)*(1.0899) = 1714 damage (1490 mana)

Static Field will naturally do a lot more damage if the enemy is at high health.

XII. Final Words

Hopefully this guide has been informative, or at least fun to read. Zeus is kinda hard to fuck up on, but lots of pubs just blindly build Aghs/Refresher thinking it will win them the game. If you guys disagree with anything, do tell!

Also, shoutout to whoever made these cute hero icons

Videos / Other Resources

Merlini's original Zeus guide: http://www.playdota.com/guides/shocking

DucK-

Singapore11447 Posts

March 27 2014 06:33 GMT

You should be maxing arc second. Your skill build is an outdated one.

TomatoBisque

United States6290 Posts

March 27 2014 07:05 GMT

Arc Lightning vs. Static Field depends on the game, but most of the time I would max Arc first. The 1 point in Arc build is a relic of when he could not recast Arc while the previous one was still bouncing and when the mana cost/damage scaled a bit worse. Something not to be overlooked is that the number of bounces on Arc increases per level, meaning maxing it is more effective in fights with summons or for counterpushing.

synapse

China13814 Posts

March 27 2014 07:39 GMT

On March 27 2014 15:33 DucK- wrote:
You should be maxing arc second. Your skill build is an outdated one.

On March 27 2014 16:05 TomatoBisque wrote:
Arc Lightning vs. Static Field depends on the game, but most of the time I would max Arc first. The 1 point in Arc build is a relic of when he could not recast Arc while the previous one was still bouncing and when the mana cost/damage scaled a bit worse. Something not to be overlooked is that the number of bounces on Arc increases per level, meaning maxing it is more effective in fights with summons or for counterpushing.

I asked a few people before writing the guide on arc vs static field, and I was told that the overall damage you get out of maxing static field first was better for targets >600ish health (and that any lower than that you could instantly kill anyway). Correct me if this reasoning is wrong.

I will certainly include an arc second skill build though

TomatoBisque

United States6290 Posts

March 27 2014 11:10 GMT

You can't assume that you will always have a Bolt+Ult combo to instagib someone at low HP, since in fights you may be using Bolt to interrupt a channeling spell, Wrath to reveal their positions/cancel a blink/etc.

Keep in mind that that's current HP, you are not the only person doing damage on your team. I'm also not sure how many Bolts(+Wrath) it assumes you'll have compared to Arcs, but Arc has a longer range than Bolt, which puts things closer to its favor (if you aren't casting Bolt at all the threshold becomes 1000, although I don't recommend not casting Bolt).

If you are most of your team's damage, I believe Static Field is actually more damage unless you're against lots of squish, but when you run in and start throwing lightning, if someone else on your team has already started hitting people it makes things look better for Arc.

Laurens

Belgium4541 Posts

March 27 2014 12:22 GMT

You mentioned "global assist gold" at some point.

I'm pretty sure you don't get gold for assisting with ult if you're not in range of the kill.

And that's why you must KS :D

nojok

France15845 Posts

March 27 2014 13:01 GMT

No mention that agha refresher sux really hard, unless ennemies ignore you or it's a roflstomp anyway. The extra damage you get at the cost of 0 survability clearly not worth it as static field will do as much if you survive just a little longer in fights. I also think that you should mention that the ulti is very good at the start of a fight, once you get the timing right, your team can make incredibly good use of seeing all ennemies at the start of the fight. Even better during woods fights. Besides it's guaranteed maximum damage. I also prefer getting forcestaff before dagger as it allows to escape in many situations where dagger is on CD.

Lightning bolt should also be used before fights as much as possible.

One more point, lightning bolt => arc lightning does less damage than arc lightning => lightning bolt, the extra damage on static field can be crucial sometimes.

Personally, I prefer going all in on mobility as the more spells you cast, the more damage you do, his damage are ridiculous lategame thanks to static field. It's also a pain in the ass to farm with this guy so scythe is really tough to get.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

March 27 2014 16:17 GMT

Force+Dagger are both good. Especially since Dagger doesn't cut into your mana, you want to mention that not only is Force a poor man's Dagger, but in many cases you should be using them together.

I'd personally like some more expansion on the "Play With" section. Mentioning only other globals represents a pretty shallow understanding of the hero, particularly insofar as why BS and AA are good with him.

Put simply, Zeus is good as a backline hero with facerush heroes that lack midgame burst. The nature of the hero is that because your spells are on such low cooldowns, any time you spend running away from something that is charging in your face is time wasted that you could have spent doing damage. As such, there are heroes that do a good job of controlling the enemy's movement like Slardar, but who lack midgame burst damage to make that threatening--and Zeus complements that well.

Oddball28

Denmark2121 Posts

March 27 2014 19:36 GMT

I'll probably see a lot of flack for this, but Dagon is a very underrated item on this hero. Now before you go "but you need hex and mobility!!!!!" yes you do, but the amount of games I've won with the sheer power of an extra 400 instant dmg on Zeus is suprising. Most people expect going for an extra bracer or cloak will cover their ass against Zeus, but with an extra nuke they suddenly find themselves hiding in the fog resulting in complete map control. Carrying a early Staff of Wisdom will also result in many people thinking you are rushing force staff. Obviously mobility items are godly on Zeus and you should be making them 9/10 times first, but one shouldn't rule out how much you can rape with a blinking Zeus and a Dagon.

DucK-

Singapore11447 Posts

March 28 2014 03:53 GMT

#10

Dagon is a good item as usual for tempo games.

aeroblaster

United States422 Posts

March 28 2014 04:19 GMT

#11

Dagon? Seriously...

GtC

United States546 Posts

March 28 2014 04:56 GMT

#12

What do you mean by a "tempo game?" Does that just mean a fast moving game with a lot of fighting?

Firebolt145

Lalalaland34490 Posts

March 28 2014 06:08 GMT

#13

If you can get it early enough in a game where there are a lot of squishy enemies that you are fighting very often very early.

KlaCkoN

Sweden1661 Posts

March 28 2014 06:55 GMT

#14

I honestly think that blink> dagon in damage output over any 10 second window unless the enemy team consists solely of 295 ms melee heroes with no stuns.

DrPandaPhD

5188 Posts

March 28 2014 12:21 GMT

#15

In HoN people used to play Zeus by forcing a tri vs trilane in the start. If you don't lose the lane horribly the enemy supports will suffer from the lower levels and just get wrecked by Zeus. Still think it's the best way to draft the hero. Lvl 7 zeus when the enemy supports are lvl 1-3 does so much damage.

(Zeus is mid btw, not in the 3v3 if it wasn't clear enough)

.yo

United States29 Posts

March 29 2014 17:28 GMT

#16

On March 28 2014 21:21 DrPandaPhD wrote:
In HoN people used to play Zeus by forcing a tri vs trilane in the start. If you don't lose the lane horribly the enemy supports will suffer from the lower levels and just get wrecked by Zeus. Still think it's the best way to draft the hero. Lvl 7 zeus when the enemy supports are lvl 1-3 does so much damage.

(Zeus is mid btw, not in the 3v3 if it wasn't clear enough)

This seems like a good idea, almost necessary. It also helps with knowing where the other supports are, which ensures more safety for Zeus in mid.

I also kind of wonder if you could dual lane him mid with a support.

evanthebouncy!

United States12796 Posts

March 29 2014 19:52 GMT

#17

zues needs to be played like a carry. with the exception that a physical dps peak later, while zues peaks around lvl7-10.

that means he is level dependent, and item dependent, and most importantly absolutely _cannot_ die in a team fight. Most often people think it is actually okay to have a lot of death as zues, and just play "support" by buying wards. That is by far the most horrible mistake you can make. It is okay for stunner / disabler to be cannon fodder in a team fight as they do not scale (a shadow demon or cm provide roughly the same amount of disable potential regardless of level) while a damage dealer scales with level / items (you will gain more damage, and more mana to cast).

once i started being more selfish and cautious in team fights my zues game turned out much better. Having a 2-3 level advantage over your enemies at all times makes you exponentially more scary. If you died a lot in bad fights by being too aggressive the game is done for.

Darkren

Canada1841 Posts

March 29 2014 23:40 GMT

#18

Ive been trying to go for mana boots into veil into forcestaff, and then i vary my lategame items vs the comp im facing.

It takes some time to get used to but hitting that veil right before a teamfight is fucking destructive for the ennemy team, i can normmally destroy their front line faster than they expect and am able to stay alive to win teamfights.

I think he is played the strongest were he gets nothing but mobility (force, blink, ghost) and support items (like mek, arcane, veil)

Refresher is a strong option for the endgame, the amount u can spam in 5 sec with refresh really wreacks teamfights

KOFgokuon

United States14893 Posts

March 31 2014 12:40 GMT

#19

On March 30 2014 04:52 evanthebouncy! wrote:
zues needs to be played like a carry. with the exception that a physical dps peak later, while zues peaks around lvl7-10.

that means he is level dependent, and item dependent, and most importantly absolutely _cannot_ die in a team fight. Most often people think it is actually okay to have a lot of death as zues, and just play "support" by buying wards. That is by far the most horrible mistake you can make. It is okay for stunner / disabler to be cannon fodder in a team fight as they do not scale (a shadow demon or cm provide roughly the same amount of disable potential regardless of level) while a damage dealer scales with level / items (you will gain more damage, and more mana to cast).

once i started being more selfish and cautious in team fights my zues game turned out much better. Having a 2-3 level advantage over your enemies at all times makes you exponentially more scary. If you died a lot in bad fights by being too aggressive the game is done for.

Who the hell buys wards as Zeus

GtC

United States546 Posts

April 01 2014 19:23 GMT

#20

In lower level pub, where a lot of players claim mid, zeus often gets shunted off to the sidelanes as a support.

TomatoBisque

United States6290 Posts

April 02 2014 21:08 GMT

#21

Pub logic: He's an int hero that means he's support.

Darkren

Canada1841 Posts

April 02 2014 22:19 GMT

#22

Well you should expect to play anything in pubs and be able to fill any role

Last week i randommed lone druid and went into their jungle to fuck with doom, ganked mid twiced and top 3 times and won the game for my team

#brag

SheaR619

United States2399 Posts

April 04 2014 11:06 GMT

#23

It really does seem like a viable idea since the meta right now seem to be showing the resurgence of putting a carry middle such as Naga or morph which are not really that strong of laner. Only problem is if bottle crow is strong enough to allow the enemy carry mid to still be able to lane efficiently.

BluemoonSC

SoCal8910 Posts

May 25 2015 19:54 GMT

#24

so with the addition of octarine core ive been interested in this hero.

my build has been bloodstone/blink (depends on how the game is going where ill get one first over the other) into octarine.

is it worth going agh's refresher these days?

can the builds be interchangeable?

when would i want one vs the other? or is bloodstone octarine just bad

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

May 25 2015 20:22 GMT

#25

The big value of Agha+Refresher is the power to take backline heroes out of a fight instantly with double ulti. This is simply not something you can do with Octarine/BStone, even though Octarine gives you very respectable over-time damage.

BluemoonSC

SoCal8910 Posts

May 25 2015 20:31 GMT

#26

so is that the deciding factor? if the backline heroes are worth taking out (ie heavy disablers), go agha refresher

if you think your teamfights will be prolonged, bloodstone octarine?

either way i think a mobility item is core..just curious about my other core items

hariooo

Canada2830 Posts

May 26 2015 15:08 GMT

#27

refresher vs oct core has always been about burst vs sustain imo. im kind of a fan of refresher because if you have anyone else on the team who can contribute damage to the backline it expands the number of opportunities you have to just instagib them and it's a much easier scenario to plan for and execute compared to trying to win the overall dps race over 20 seconds in a 5v5 or something.

also if you position yourself close enough without getting blown up it's like 6 static field procs on their frontline which is significant

DucK-

Singapore11447 Posts

May 26 2015 15:36 GMT

#28

I think there's no need for Agha anymore (not that it was great) when you could work towards Core.

BluemoonSC

SoCal8910 Posts

May 26 2015 16:06 GMT

#29

On May 27 2015 00:08 hariooo wrote:
refresher vs oct core has always been about burst vs sustain imo. im kind of a fan of refresher because if you have anyone else on the team who can contribute damage to the backline it expands the number of opportunities you have to just instagib them and it's a much easier scenario to plan for and execute compared to trying to win the overall dps race over 20 seconds in a 5v5 or something.

also if you position yourself close enough without getting blown up it's like 6 static field procs on their frontline which is significant

exactly, its just a matter of figuring out what your late game team fights will look like and which you want to pick up first.

dunno, for pubs, static field is 1200 range so chances are as long as you have someone who can initiate or be in front, youll be zapping people for days (especially bc you have to be in range for thunderbolt and arc lightning anyway)

plus in the games that ive played recently, bloodstone/octarine is so nice in team fights. you're just so damn tanky its hard to focus you down and the heal you get is nice bc you're just spamming arc lightning like crazy. I haven't had a game last long enough to add a refresher..im sure that's a gigantic heal too lol

ill have to play around with it more because I think zeus is in a pretty good place right now and I love what octarine brings to his kit

Mecha King Ghidorah

United States595 Posts

May 28 2015 16:26 GMT

#30

Does Veil work with Static Field? Every Zus who goes Veil just seems to melt the enemy team way more than ulti+plus chain lightning and a few bolts could reasonably do vs a team of tanky heroes in the mid-lategame.

Thetwinmasters

3578 Posts

May 28 2015 17:09 GMT

#31

On May 29 2015 01:26 Mecha King Ghidorah wrote:
Does Veil work with Static Field? Every Zus who goes Veil just seems to melt the enemy team way more than ulti+plus chain lightning and a few bolts could reasonably do vs a team of tanky heroes in the mid-lategame.

it works with it

hariooo

Canada2830 Posts

May 28 2015 18:31 GMT

#32

It's like 523280x better to have your offlane Phoenix get Veil instead though. Even if it's Boner7.

I dunno I just hate the buildup to Veil on Zeus and getting in range for it means you're in range to get blinked on.

BluemoonSC

SoCal8910 Posts

May 30 2015 03:07 GMT

#33

agreed. i think that being able to stay alive to cast more spells and do more dmg with your static field is more valuable.

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

May 31 2015 23:13 GMT

#34

I think it was Hot6ix vs Mineski yesterday, but damn bloodseeker + zeus is so strong.

Zeus's single target is already so strong but when you couple it with bloodrage people just melt. Teamfights become disgustingly easy when your ult plus static field does like half of everyone's health.

ThePianoDentist

United Kingdom698 Posts

June 01 2015 09:30 GMT

#35

On June 01 2015 08:13 wherebugsgo wrote:
I think it was Hot6ix vs Mineski yesterday, but damn bloodseeker + zeus is so strong.

Zeus's single target is already so strong but when you couple it with bloodrage people just melt. Teamfights become disgustingly easy when your ult plus static field does like half of everyone's health.

oh god, thats before even mentioning the effect on bloodseeker even if somehow some people do stay alive

thewrld

United States34 Posts

June 01 2015 15:20 GMT

#36

I'm somewhere along the lines of 19-3 with Zeus, and I feel like the hero is in a really strong spot this patch. He always has been, imo, but with the addition of new items, 6.84 became Zeus' wet dream.

hariooo

Canada2830 Posts

June 01 2015 20:22 GMT

#37

dont forget position 1 blood means as soon as zeus ults in the first 20 minutes or so becomes a hasted god and protects zeus against dives with W. there's really quite the synergy

SpiritoftheTunA

United States20903 Posts

June 01 2015 21:10 GMT

#38

zeus bloodseeker showed up first in dac (often with bloodseeker in the 4 pos, though he farms super fast in dire jungle) and then everyone decided bloodseeker was crap for like 3-4 months; idk why, that hero is still pretty ridiculous in some drafts

Shadows666

8 Posts

June 15 2015 19:33 GMT

#39

which the skill and item build you currently use in mid?

BluemoonSC

SoCal8910 Posts

June 15 2015 20:24 GMT

#40

i personally like 1-4-4-1. it's a bit mana hungry but your ability to burst down people is disgusting.

ahswtini

Northern Ireland22208 Posts

June 15 2015 20:29 GMT

#41

thought 1-4-4-1 was the standard zeus build. value point chain lightning for last hitting and residual dmg thx to lightning rod, and max bolt for that burst

BluemoonSC

SoCal8910 Posts

June 15 2015 20:50 GMT

#42

i think i saw someone go 2-1-2-1 into max thunderbolt 2-4-2-1 on stream but i cant remember who. nor do i know the reasoning.

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

June 15 2015 21:27 GMT

#43

These days u see a lot of extra points in chain lightning for farming purposes since people build bloodstone and use chain lightning to flash farm waves and the jungle
so you see either 1-4-1-1 or 2-4-0-1 (depending on if u need 2 levels in q to cs reliably) into 4-4-1-2 at 11
unless ur that retard pub on my team who went 4-1-4-2 but we'll just pretend that guy doesn't exist.

Wala.Revolution

7582 Posts

June 16 2015 01:45 GMT

#44

I think 2 in chain 3 shots ranged creeps early on.

ChunderBoy

3242 Posts

June 16 2015 05:06 GMT

#45

im sure 4-4-1 is the best overall build

trinxified

Canada7774 Posts

June 16 2015 05:10 GMT

#46

On June 16 2015 14:06 ChunderBoy wrote:
im sure 4-4-1 is the best overall build

trolling?

Xxazn4lyfe51xX

United States976 Posts

June 16 2015 05:19 GMT

#47

On June 16 2015 14:10 trinxified wrote:

Show nested quote +

trolling?

Unless he means 4-4-1-0 at 9 (he doesn't), I really don't see how he could be trolling.

4-4-1 lets you farm jungle stacks extremely quickly and efficiently. Something that 1-4-4 doesn't let you do.

DucK-

Singapore11447 Posts

June 16 2015 10:04 GMT

#48

1-4-1-1 into 4-4-1-1

Deleted User 261926

960 Posts

June 16 2015 10:37 GMT

#49

On June 16 2015 14:10 trinxified wrote:

Show nested quote +

trolling?

It has been for a long time.IIRC since they fixed the dota1 bug that didn't allow 2 chain lightnings to be up at the same time.

BluemoonSC

SoCal8910 Posts

June 16 2015 11:16 GMT

#50

i guess ultimately at early levels maxing static field for extra dmg taken from their current hp doesn't compare to the dmg from arc lightning and being able to farm with arc lightning

like sn0 said there are a lot of people getting bloodstone on the hero so its definitely the better farming build

(jisira and I prefer bloodstone -> blink -> octarine)

hariooo

Canada2830 Posts

June 16 2015 14:56 GMT

#51

Definite max chain it's such a good farming spell. stack camps, pull camp to other camp, lightninglightninglighning

pretty sure it's the only viable build for mid. it's technically more dps than bolt if you get to use it off cd (not necessarily but it still means it's a lot of damage to leave on the table for a 144 build)

trinxified

Canada7774 Posts

June 16 2015 18:04 GMT

#52

mana cost for a 4-4 build is insane, and also your bolt is technically weaker with less static field.

I play a lot of Zeus at around 4.5k MMR, so maybe I really should try the 4-4 build instead.

BluemoonSC

SoCal8910 Posts

June 16 2015 18:59 GMT

#53

Yeah that's why you need the bloodstone.

Xxazn4lyfe51xX

United States976 Posts

June 17 2015 09:28 GMT

#54

Yeah, the point really isn't to spam your spells on CD for kills, although you certainly can if you're at full mana (this is before bloodstone). It's more for the farming capability in jungle and big creep waves to get you to that bloodstone/first item.

HammerKick

France6190 Posts

December 17 2015 19:16 GMT

#55

Hey guys!

New model and Arcana hype!

Aether Lens is really good on him, he relies on spamming Q and going in for a W in fights, and the additional range allows him to stay really safe.
You may say it's not needed, but don't forget those 8% bonus damage... another reason to pick it up

gaijindash

Japan376 Posts

December 17 2015 23:58 GMT

#56

8% spell damage, hmmmm.

I cant really tell how impactful that is for the cost of the item, but if you factor in the extra range etc it might be worth the cost. Question is where the item fits in to the rest of the standard bloodstone blink euls etc. Its probably good.

Also I dont think it increases the damage of static field, maybe im wrong

PoulsenB

Poland7711 Posts

December 18 2015 07:45 GMT

#57

Lens should be really good on Zeus especially, because he spams so many spells during a fight, so the extra mana is nice and the 8% dmg increase starts adding up over longer engagements, significantly increasing the damage output. The extra range, HP regen and +15% magic resistance are also very good on him for sure, he's so slow and squishy. I think in mid you could build something like bottle > arcane > soul ring > force staff/euls > aether lens instead of the traditional bloodstone rush.

TyrionSC2

United States411 Posts

December 18 2015 09:02 GMT

#58

I've done a few games going bloodstone - blink - bots aether lens - euls - refresher/octarine
It seems pretty good so far. Hopefully fata shows us how to use it soon,,

SatsuinoHado

Bulgaria777 Posts

December 18 2015 11:19 GMT

#59

Im starting with fast Veil, you miss the entire point if you thing any other item gives more power, this item is with the easiest build up and gives 18 Int + 25% dmg amp for 2300 gold!

ahw

Canada1099 Posts

March 03 2016 18:55 GMT

#60

This hero seems pretty good right now because he can salvage lane match ups mid like invoker or od. You just both farm, and build Zeus for mid game snowballing and try to win from that.

I like 2-0-1 -> 2-4-1-1, then 4-4-1

I think you need to play him as a mid game monster, with item choices to maximize that. Soul ring, wand, arcanes, 1 mobility item (blink or force or euls occasionally) and veil. Lens upgrade in here somewhere. Then bloodstone. Then whatever.

If you get rolling with 4-4-1-1, and you get veil up quickly, you can't lose team fights mid game unless you are picked. Veil gives you enough int to throw shit around, and the other stats are good bonuses, especially armor.

I don't agree with the standard Zeus builds I see -- mostly bloodstone rushes, or weird octarine focused builds. Zeus is such a monster mid game that it's a waste building him any other way imo.

Late game you can do whatever, doesn't really matter

Dead9

United States4725 Posts

March 03 2016 19:42 GMT

#61

almost every zeus ive seen goes bottle (sr) boots > lens/veil/blink > oct/refresh/sheep
sometimes with euls/aghs

this heros stupidly strong all game long

ahswtini

Northern Ireland22208 Posts

March 03 2016 20:19 GMT

#62

i think bloodstone is bad and unnecessary on him, octarine is superior in pretty much every significant way. bloodstone got nerfed remember

SpiritoftheTunA

United States20903 Posts

March 03 2016 21:28 GMT

#63

greedy zeuses like fata used to rush bloodstone (after the nice-for-mana arcanes/soulring) so they could rice at max speed with a 441 build

since then, the meta's become such that you usually wont be that free to just rice a bloodstone and continue ricing in the jungle

GtC

United States546 Posts

March 03 2016 21:33 GMT

#64

Bloodstone is still pretty good for the respawn time reduction, given how non-cd reliant the hero is. Octarine is generally better in most situations though.

ahw

Canada1099 Posts

March 03 2016 23:50 GMT

#65

bloodstone fits his tempo more than oct. you need an item that solves your mana issues as you transition to mid game. You already have the SR.

Bloodstone respawn, and denies in particular, are pretty game breaking on a hero that easily racks up huge streaks. It's not uncommon to be on 10+ kill streaks and ur death can potentially swing the game. Even tho they nerfed the item, deny is stupid strong.

Tbh last game I played as Zeus we won because I got 2 or 3 big ults baited (chronod and haunt or something), deny, clean up team fight. Those fights are unrecoverable

Also, bloodstone gives you the mans regen u need to support oct core. It's just a better build.

Wala.Revolution

7582 Posts

March 04 2016 01:27 GMT

#66

I think biggest problem with bloodstone rush is that you're missing out on lens (added range for safety), veil (tons of damage) and eul/blink (safety/mobility/regen) which might change tempo of the game before bloodstone kicks in.

Later you want octarine or refresher or some other item instead.

xxpack09

United States2160 Posts

March 04 2016 02:54 GMT

#67

I was under the impression that bloodstone is purely for farming, and if you want to fight early you get stuff like lens/veil/euls/blink.

SatsuinoHado

Bulgaria777 Posts

March 04 2016 03:12 GMT

#68

my build most of the games is eul/lens/agh/refresher you get enough mana to use both ulties and a LOT of dmg with easy build up items and works perfectly at least in my bracket

GtC

United States546 Posts

March 04 2016 04:36 GMT

#69

On March 04 2016 11:54 xxpack09 wrote:
I was under the impression that bloodstone is purely for farming, and if you want to fight early you get stuff like lens/veil/euls/blink.

Bloodstone is the best farming item early on for zeus, but it's also really good if you're snowballing already and you don't particularly need more damage/range/mobility. Those can potentially let you snowball harder, but unless you really need those, bloodstone is much more stable.

ahswtini

Northern Ireland22208 Posts

March 04 2016 11:29 GMT

#70

On March 04 2016 10:27 Wala.Revolution wrote:
I think biggest problem with bloodstone rush is that you're missing out on lens (added range for safety), veil (tons of damage) and eul/blink (safety/mobility/regen) which might change tempo of the game before bloodstone kicks in.

Later you want octarine or refresher or some other item instead.

this, pretty much

i dont know why you would even want to rice with bloodstone when u can just get lens veil and dump on people

SpiritoftheTunA

United States20903 Posts

March 04 2016 14:11 GMT

#71

ahw still advocates getting it after lens + 1 mobility item

still think its a decent core to transition to lategame and sustian a snowball with the death timer reduction

ahw

Canada1099 Posts

March 04 2016 17:35 GMT

#72

i mean im no pro or anything just a 5k scrub

but bloodstone is still really good for all the same reasons it was really good before.

im against rushing bloodstone because the game isnt about farming stacks anymore, you gotta fight and shit on people. so some assortment of lens / veil / force / blink before your bloodstone. then you add it and have the ability to deny yourself and the mana sustain. then you go your late game shit, oct or hex or whatever the game needs.

octarine is obviously very strong on him, but it doesnt offer what bloodstone does for zeus. deny, respawn, regen are all the most important thing midgame

not to mention the build up isn't easy midgame

BluemoonSC

SoCal8910 Posts

March 04 2016 20:16 GMT

#73

On March 05 2016 02:35 ahw wrote:
i mean im no pro or anything just a 5k scrub

but bloodstone is still really good for all the same reasons it was really good before.

im against rushing bloodstone because the game isnt about farming stacks anymore, you gotta fight and shit on people. so some assortment of lens / veil / force / blink before your bloodstone. then you add it and have the ability to deny yourself and the mana sustain. then you go your late game shit, oct or hex or whatever the game needs.

octarine is obviously very strong on him, but it doesnt offer what bloodstone does for zeus. deny, respawn, regen are all the most important thing midgame

not to mention the build up isn't easy midgame

yep. and your other point about needing to fight is something I'm discovering and netting me better personal results mid/early. that said, I prefer the arcanes -> lens -> mobility before bloodstone because I don't think any pub is organized to understand when they can try to kill something and when they cant.

Dead9

United States4725 Posts

March 04 2016 21:26 GMT

#74

i think refreshers the best in almost all situations after early items
veil bolt wrath bolt wrath does 700 (950 with veil) to their whole team and 1700 to a single target
thats not even counting static field damage
anyone under around 2k hp dies instantly

synapse

China13814 Posts

March 04 2016 22:58 GMT

#75

On March 05 2016 06:26 Dead9 wrote:
i think refreshers the best in almost all situations after early items
veil bolt wrath bolt wrath does 700 (950 with veil) to their whole team and 1700 to a single target
thats not even counting static field damage
anyone under around 2k hp dies instantly

I think refresher is hits peak value if you already have BKB. 5-7 extra seconds of magic immunity is a lot of extra spells cast and a lot of extra static field damage.