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On June 03 2014 01:23 riptide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2014 01:15 DucK- wrote:
Iceiceice invoker is so good, but mushi failed so hard :\ As I said in our writeup (linked above), Mush is a mid player, and iceiceice is an offlaner. While fluidity within your cores is nice in theory, at this level of Dota it's just very difficult to make sure everyone is playing optimally if you keep switching lanes. iceiceice is a good Invoker, but Mushi is by far the better mid player (especially, as I have discussed in our writeup, on snowball-y heroes like TA), and Mushi may play a great offlane Centaur, but iceiceice's overall offlane performance is easily a tier above it.
I think DK came to the same conclusion after game 2, but it created new problems for their draft. They rate invoker very highly, so they felt forced to ban him in the first stage from then on. This in turn allowed iG to get their hands on heros DK wouldn't usually give away, the dire lycan being the most obvious example. It's the same problem, though less critical, with Brewmaster. DK rate him highly, but aren't successful at running him themselves, creating an obvious weakness that can be exploited by other teams during the draft.
It's weird to say this about a team with icex3 in it, but I think icefrog might have done DK a favour with nerfing invoker. If he ends up not being first pick/ban material anymore, there'll be much less pressure for them to grab or ban him instantly. Instead they can reserve him for the right lineups, when they've secured a Mushi centaur or a good Burning aggressive tri.
All in all, I feel like DK was lacking direction in their draft. They've always drafted unconventionally, at least when Mushi or Lanm are picking, but even the weird lineups usually had a clear point or goal to them. Their drafts vs iG felt quite random by comparison.
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On June 03 2014 13:25 Orome wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2014 01:23 riptide wrote:On June 03 2014 01:15 DucK- wrote:
Iceiceice invoker is so good, but mushi failed so hard :\ As I said in our writeup (linked above), Mush is a mid player, and iceiceice is an offlaner. While fluidity within your cores is nice in theory, at this level of Dota it's just very difficult to make sure everyone is playing optimally if you keep switching lanes. iceiceice is a good Invoker, but Mushi is by far the better mid player (especially, as I have discussed in our writeup, on snowball-y heroes like TA), and Mushi may play a great offlane Centaur, but iceiceice's overall offlane performance is easily a tier above it. I think DK came to the same conclusion after game 2, but it created new problems for their draft. They rate invoker very highly, so they felt forced to ban him in the first stage from then on. This in turn allowed iG to get their hands on heros DK wouldn't usually give away, the dire lycan being the most obvious example. It's the same problem, though less critical, with Brewmaster. DK rate him highly, but aren't successful at running him themselves, creating an obvious weakness that can be exploited by other teams during the draft. It's weird to say this about a team with icex3 in it, but I think icefrog might have done DK a favour with nerfing invoker. If he ends up not being first pick/ban material anymore, there'll be much less pressure for them to grab or ban him instantly. Instead they can reserve him for the right lineups, when they've secured a Mushi centaur or a good Burning aggressive tri. All in all, I feel like DK was lacking direction in their draft. They've always drafted unconventionally, at least when Mushi or Lanm are picking, but even the weird lineups usually had a clear point or goal to them. Their drafts vs iG felt quite random by comparison.
Rather than random, I'd say they were too reactionary, and thus drafted non-synergized heroes.
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On June 03 2014 13:25 Orome wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2014 01:23 riptide wrote:On June 03 2014 01:15 DucK- wrote:
Iceiceice invoker is so good, but mushi failed so hard :\ As I said in our writeup (linked above), Mush is a mid player, and iceiceice is an offlaner. While fluidity within your cores is nice in theory, at this level of Dota it's just very difficult to make sure everyone is playing optimally if you keep switching lanes. iceiceice is a good Invoker, but Mushi is by far the better mid player (especially, as I have discussed in our writeup, on snowball-y heroes like TA), and Mushi may play a great offlane Centaur, but iceiceice's overall offlane performance is easily a tier above it. I think DK came to the same conclusion after game 2, but it created new problems for their draft. They rate invoker very highly, so they felt forced to ban him in the first stage from then on. This in turn allowed iG to get their hands on heros DK wouldn't usually give away, the dire lycan being the most obvious example. It's the same problem, though less critical, with Brewmaster. DK rate him highly, but aren't successful at running him themselves, creating an obvious weakness that can be exploited by other teams during the draft. It's weird to say this about a team with icex3 in it, but I think icefrog might have done DK a favour with nerfing invoker. If he ends up not being first pick/ban material anymore, there'll be much less pressure for them to grab or ban him instantly. Instead they can reserve him for the right lineups, when they've secured a Mushi centaur or a good Burning aggressive tri. All in all, I feel like DK was lacking direction in their draft. They've always drafted unconventionally, at least when Mushi or Lanm are picking, but even the weird lineups usually had a clear point or goal to them. Their drafts vs iG felt quite random by comparison.
All your points I have to agree with and thats very suprising, DK didnt show much in the draft and definetly werent there at all. iG really took advantage of that and sadly DK lost
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most of the time DK loses its in the draft
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On June 03 2014 16:16 rabidch wrote:
most of the time DK loses its in the draft
yeah i feel the same :x idk, but i feel like some of their drafts are just suboptimal with heroes/players/lanes/matchups
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On June 03 2014 13:25 Orome wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2014 01:23 riptide wrote:On June 03 2014 01:15 DucK- wrote:
Iceiceice invoker is so good, but mushi failed so hard :\ As I said in our writeup (linked above), Mush is a mid player, and iceiceice is an offlaner. While fluidity within your cores is nice in theory, at this level of Dota it's just very difficult to make sure everyone is playing optimally if you keep switching lanes. iceiceice is a good Invoker, but Mushi is by far the better mid player (especially, as I have discussed in our writeup, on snowball-y heroes like TA), and Mushi may play a great offlane Centaur, but iceiceice's overall offlane performance is easily a tier above it. I think DK came to the same conclusion after game 2, but it created new problems for their draft. They rate invoker very highly, so they felt forced to ban him in the first stage from then on. This in turn allowed iG to get their hands on heros DK wouldn't usually give away, the dire lycan being the most obvious example. It's the same problem, though less critical, with Brewmaster. DK rate him highly, but aren't successful at running him themselves, creating an obvious weakness that can be exploited by other teams during the draft. It's weird to say this about a team with icex3 in it, but I think icefrog might have done DK a favour with nerfing invoker. If he ends up not being first pick/ban material anymore, there'll be much less pressure for them to grab or ban him instantly. Instead they can reserve him for the right lineups, when they've secured a Mushi centaur or a good Burning aggressive tri. All in all, I feel like DK was lacking direction in their draft. They've always drafted unconventionally, at least when Mushi or Lanm are picking, but even the weird lineups usually had a clear point or goal to them. Their drafts vs iG felt quite random by comparison.
430's Invoker is about the same level as a good Lycan player. Giving up Invoker to 430 isn't a good idea when Invoker is extremely strong under current meta/patch conditions.
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I'm not saying the ban was a bad idea, I'm saying DK not feeling comfortable enough to run invoker after the first 2 games led to a disadvantage for them in the subsequent drafts. They had to ban invoker, iG didn't.
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5673 Posts
Finally, DK picking TA for Mushi! (The Summit, vs VG)
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welp, thought VG's draft was infinitely better but DK was a better team in the end. icex3 clock is pretty good.
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Hows DK doing in The Summit ? Their preformance showing well?
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They're winning, but playing sloppy.
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28104 Posts
On June 06 2014 06:46 Adrian_mx wrote:
Hows DK doing in The Summit ? Their preformance showing well?
+ Show Spoiler +2-0 so far, going into their 3rd game right now against Fnatic!
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What's up with that power chart shown during the picks?
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On June 06 2014 08:55 Karpfen wrote:
What's up with that power chart shown during the picks?
Production value from BTS.
On June 06 2014 08:24 TheEmulator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 06:46 Adrian_mx wrote:
Hows DK doing in The Summit ? Their preformance showing well? + Show Spoiler +2-0 so far, going into their 3rd game right now against Fnatic!
+ Show Spoiler +71 was unimpressed with their games so far because they're falling back into their old bad habits
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Poor DK, they look so devastated after theur game vs fnatic 
It's so sad, the look of despair each of them had
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Likely just fatigue more than anything else. I wouldn't read too much into it.
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rip DK losing to 16 yo LAN virgin
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5673 Posts
Um, is this a joke? lol
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0L7h5MZ.png)
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BTS has said that the hexagons look glitched multiple times today.
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5673 Posts
On June 06 2014 10:09 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
BTS has said that the hexagons look glitched multiple times today.
OK fair enough. I just woke up! ^^
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EPT
