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Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion - Page 9300

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2845 Posts
February 04 2018 06:19 GMT
#185981
On February 04 2018 05:41 SKC wrote:
I'm not sure it's just understanding and time. PoE still has some flaws. The tree system would be more interesting if it wasn't so focused on getting every single life node you can. The game is all about surviving one bit hit coming out of nowhere.

And leveling is a big annoying when every build is about using SRS or Sunder until you get to maps, buy the items you need to actually play what you want to play and switch skills.

I would probally play PoE over D3 most of the time, but I'm not sure it's that clearcut the better game for everyone that would take the time to learn it.


I'm far from saying it's perfect, but historically it's added content and improved at a faster rate than D3, and currently has more depth and variety than D3 does. In games that are designed to be timesinks, the timesink I would rather be stuck with for the rest of time is PoE over D3.

Tho nevuk might be on to something with Grim Dawn. Dat game also fun, and I've played it way less than I have PoE or D3.
andyrau
Profile Joined December 2010
13015 Posts
February 04 2018 09:50 GMT
#185982
nullifier is actually such a dumb item lol
"Zai is legitimately not as good as bulba." | kaipi ti3 champions
kollin
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom8380 Posts
February 04 2018 10:53 GMT
#185983
On February 04 2018 15:05 Spicy_Curry wrote:
It bothers me when casters say win condition over and over


All of the American casters, and especially the new ones, have adopted the same speech patterns and mannerisms and it makes listening to them unbearable.
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34507 Posts
February 04 2018 12:53 GMT
#185984
On February 04 2018 19:53 kollin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 04 2018 15:05 Spicy_Curry wrote:
It bothers me when casters say win condition over and over


All of the American casters, and especially the new ones, have adopted the same speech patterns and mannerisms and it makes listening to them unbearable.

You should become a caster!
Moderator
teddyoojo
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany22369 Posts
February 04 2018 12:57 GMT
#185985
its no secret that 95% of dota2 casters suck hard
Esports historian since 2000. Creator of 'The Universe' and 'The best scrambled Eggs 2013'. Host of 'Star Wars Marathon 2015'. Thinker of 'teddyoojo's Thoughts'. Earths and Moons leading CS:GO expert. Lord of the Rings.
OmniEulogy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada6600 Posts
February 04 2018 13:24 GMT
#185986
I especially like the current trend of every caster declaring a game over only to have the team behind win a team fight. Even if they are tremendously behind I don't really think it's the place of a commentator to decide when the game is over. Gets on my nerves way more than it should.
LiquidDota Staff
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-04 13:47:49
February 04 2018 13:45 GMT
#185987
On February 04 2018 19:53 kollin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 04 2018 15:05 Spicy_Curry wrote:
It bothers me when casters say win condition over and over


All of the American casters, and especially the new ones, have adopted the same speech patterns and mannerisms and it makes listening to them unbearable.

Where do you think they poached that word from? I've only heard it from MTG. It doesn't make a ton of sense in DotA since the only way you "win" is by killing the throne or a forfeit. MTG only realistically has a couple normal win-conditions (bring opponent to 0 life or get rid of all the cards in their library) but the amount of ways you have to get there can be pretty diverse. Playing lots of little guys, slowly grinding the opponent down, going for sick combos, but as far as I'm aware in DotA, you have to siege high ground and then break the base with your heroes. There isn't some alternative way of getting the throne.
kiss kiss fall in love
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-04 13:58:44
February 04 2018 13:57 GMT
#185988
Pretty sure it's a word I've heard pros use in casts.

A draft needs a win condition, like a Drow strat has a timing where it should take Rosh and push highground. The win condition of a lategame draft can be holding high ground until you are strong enough. Something like that. When they say a team has no win condition it means that they can't see a plan that would lead to a victory.

It's not as literal as in MTG but the concept still applies.

It is still a bad word for casters to pick up. Maybe at the post game table or something.
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34507 Posts
February 04 2018 17:08 GMT
#185989
Just watched TI4 grand final highlights again

I had forgotten how shit they were
Moderator
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34507 Posts
February 04 2018 17:09 GMT
#185990
Also has streaming really come this far in 3 years? The difference between watching Dota at TI4 and TI7 seems much larger than I remember...
Moderator
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
February 04 2018 17:13 GMT
#185991
honestly the game has leapt quite a bit since then.
reborn and such
passive quaranstream fan
Slomo
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany7198 Posts
February 04 2018 17:21 GMT
#185992
On February 05 2018 02:09 Firebolt145 wrote:
Also has streaming really come this far in 3 years? The difference between watching Dota at TI4 and TI7 seems much larger than I remember...

How come? Video quality wise? Sure.
RIP DOUBLE TI OG | #18 never forget
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
February 04 2018 19:52 GMT
#185993
holy fuck.
stranger things is picking up steeply after episode 1
passive quaranstream fan
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2845 Posts
February 04 2018 21:06 GMT
#185994
On February 04 2018 22:45 intotheheart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 04 2018 19:53 kollin wrote:
On February 04 2018 15:05 Spicy_Curry wrote:
It bothers me when casters say win condition over and over


All of the American casters, and especially the new ones, have adopted the same speech patterns and mannerisms and it makes listening to them unbearable.

Where do you think they poached that word from? I've only heard it from MTG. It doesn't make a ton of sense in DotA since the only way you "win" is by killing the throne or a forfeit. MTG only realistically has a couple normal win-conditions (bring opponent to 0 life or get rid of all the cards in their library) but the amount of ways you have to get there can be pretty diverse. Playing lots of little guys, slowly grinding the opponent down, going for sick combos, but as far as I'm aware in DotA, you have to siege high ground and then break the base with your heroes. There isn't some alternative way of getting the throne.


'Win condition" is a broader concept than literally the condition required to win the game. It alludes to a core component of your strategy that must come to pass in order for you to win. In dota2 historically, the 'win condition' of a chen/beastmaster lineup was strong push for highground before 30 minutes. The 'win condition' of Liquid's TI winning kotl push was 5man kotl + aghs.

Win condition is a term that refers to a singular point in a strategy that must occur for the strategy to win. You can win without your strategy (we've all seen 4p1 antimage games that end before the AM has to do anything) but that doesn't change that your win condition was super-rich antimage.

So the win condition of a card game could be "get and execute my combo" not "reduce his hp to 0".
Rocket-Bear
Profile Joined July 2014
3070 Posts
February 04 2018 21:20 GMT
#185995
On February 05 2018 02:08 Firebolt145 wrote:
Just watched TI4 grand final highlights again

I had forgotten how shit they were

Yeah, I rewatched them a year ago because I felt like I had a wrong perception. I felt like I compared the finals too much to the TI3 finals and it was unfair so I wanted to rewatch it. But nope, TI4 finals truly were awful

I miss the old map though, was a lot more cute juking spots
Favorite players: Gh and Zai
TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28104 Posts
February 04 2018 21:22 GMT
#185996
I can respect the TI4 finals in the sense that we were witnessing a team truly understand the meta ahead of everyone else. Unfortunately that meta was boring as shit.
Administrator
tehh4ck3r
Profile Joined August 2013
Magrathea7087 Posts
February 04 2018 21:52 GMT
#185997
The finals were shit but there were good games throughout the rest of the tournament
AdministratorIn those days, spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
February 04 2018 21:59 GMT
#185998
Anyone have recommendations for a good MMORPG these days?
kiss kiss fall in love
TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28104 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-04 22:01:54
February 04 2018 22:01 GMT
#185999
FFXIV is probably one of the best if you don't like WoW. Apparently Black Desert Online is good too, but I personally haven't played it.
Administrator
Slomo
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany7198 Posts
February 04 2018 22:01 GMT
#186000
GW2 is ok if you arent into hardcore small scale pvp and dont like gear treadmills.
RIP DOUBLE TI OG | #18 never forget
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