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On February 11 2015 06:24 TheEmulator wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2015 06:23 SKC wrote:
When most Dota pros went pro streaming didnt even exist. LoL evolved with streams, Dota didnt. The whole streaming culture is just different. Yea most dota pros didn't even have donation or sub announcement software setup until recently. Most still don't do that stuff.
Most Dota pros are boring as fuck to watch too. I mean, there are times when PPD doesn't even talk, have a camera or anything. Dendi doesn't have a camera either. I think that Dota players as a whole just have not embraced streaming as much and don't stream on any consistent schedule.
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On February 11 2015 06:25 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2015 06:23 SKC wrote:
When most Dota pros went pro streaming didnt even exist. LoL evolved with streams, Dota didnt. The whole streaming culture is just different. That's also true of a lot of other games, though, that have much higher stream #s relative to their playerbase size, though.
From old school competitve games the only one that really has a huge streaming scene is CS.
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CS is just so well suited to streaming though with the nice brief rounds punctuated by spaces where you can communicate with your audience.
Plus sick shots etc.
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On February 11 2015 06:28 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2015 06:24 TheEmulator wrote:On February 11 2015 06:23 SKC wrote:
When most Dota pros went pro streaming didnt even exist. LoL evolved with streams, Dota didnt. The whole streaming culture is just different. Yea most dota pros didn't even have donation or sub announcement software setup until recently. Most still don't do that stuff. Most Dota pros are boring as fuck to watch too. I mean, there are times when PPD doesn't even talk, have a camera or anything. Dendi doesn't have a camera either. I think that Dota players as a whole just have not embraced streaming as much and don't stream on any consistent schedule.
yes, and they win foreign tournament
I think dota western pro focus more on the actual game than on streaming
whereas LoL pros ... well i'm pretty sure you can look at placement of the last worlds.
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On February 11 2015 06:32 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2015 06:28 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2015 06:24 TheEmulator wrote:On February 11 2015 06:23 SKC wrote:
When most Dota pros went pro streaming didnt even exist. LoL evolved with streams, Dota didnt. The whole streaming culture is just different. Yea most dota pros didn't even have donation or sub announcement software setup until recently. Most still don't do that stuff. Most Dota pros are boring as fuck to watch too. I mean, there are times when PPD doesn't even talk, have a camera or anything. Dendi doesn't have a camera either. I think that Dota players as a whole just have not embraced streaming as much and don't stream on any consistent schedule. yes, and they win foreign tournament I think dota western pro focus more on the actual game than on streaming whereas LoL pros ... well i'm pretty sure you can look at placement of the last worlds.
superiormoba shots fired!
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On February 11 2015 06:32 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2015 06:28 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2015 06:24 TheEmulator wrote:On February 11 2015 06:23 SKC wrote:
When most Dota pros went pro streaming didnt even exist. LoL evolved with streams, Dota didnt. The whole streaming culture is just different. Yea most dota pros didn't even have donation or sub announcement software setup until recently. Most still don't do that stuff. Most Dota pros are boring as fuck to watch too. I mean, there are times when PPD doesn't even talk, have a camera or anything. Dendi doesn't have a camera either. I think that Dota players as a whole just have not embraced streaming as much and don't stream on any consistent schedule. yes, and they win foreign tournament I think dota western pro focus more on the actual game than on streaming whereas LoL pros ... well i'm pretty sure you can look at placement of the last worlds.
Hey, you're not wrong there. I do like it when they win. Really I just want them to put more effort into the few times they do stream, or have someone set up their shit for them.
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United States47024 Posts
Well, just looking at the payout structure of LCS/Worlds, if you're on a middle-tier team that's good enough to have no risk of dropping out of LCS, but not good enough to go to/place meaningfully at Worlds, you'll probably get a bigger payout on your time spent by focusing on streaming than on improving.
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On February 11 2015 06:28 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2015 06:24 TheEmulator wrote:On February 11 2015 06:23 SKC wrote:
When most Dota pros went pro streaming didnt even exist. LoL evolved with streams, Dota didnt. The whole streaming culture is just different. Yea most dota pros didn't even have donation or sub announcement software setup until recently. Most still don't do that stuff. Most Dota pros are boring as fuck to watch too. I mean, there are times when PPD doesn't even talk, have a camera or anything. Dendi doesn't have a camera either. I think that Dota players as a whole just have not embraced streaming as much and don't stream on any consistent schedule.
Yeah the dota streaming scene as a whole just hasn't evolved or grown nearly as much as other games. It shows both when you look at the lack of a focus on donations (with a few exceptions) and a lack of interactivity.
It's weird to me because at this point it's very clear what most people are looking for when it comes to streamers. If you're a relatively high level player, you talk/teach while you play, and you maintain a relatively consistent schedule you will get viewers. And if you thank your subs and read donations you will get plenty of subs and donations. Especially if you have some gimmick like a name for your subs ("welcome to the TA army") or you do something like Bulldog's automated donation reader.
You see people doing this for League, which is more popular and comparable when it comes to the difficulty of doing self commentary, and you see people doing it for SC2 which is much less popular and much more difficult to commentate as you play. So I have trouble blaming it on money unless it's due to Dota's focus on prize money relative to other games.
I dunno I've written a ton about this I guess because it's something I've thought about a lot for some reason during the past few weeks.
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Exactly and then they won't threaten 'top' western teams who will continue streaming while placing at the same rank worlds, aka after chineses/koreans teams
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On February 11 2015 06:36 TheYango wrote:
Well, just looking at the payout structure of LCS/Worlds, if you're on a middle-tier team that's good enough to have no risk of dropping out of LCS, but not good enough to go to/place meaningfully at Worlds, you'll probably get a bigger payout on your time spent by focusing on streaming than on improving.
yeah the only difference that makes a lot of sense to me is that westerners are competitive globally in dota and dota has enough prize money to make focusing exclusively on tournament wins worth it.
afaik westerners are about as competitive in League as they are in SC2 right? Or at least similar levels. So without a realistic chance to win massive amounts of money streaming is a much more profitable choice (both for league and sc2).
And last I checked HS doesn't have a ton of money in tournaments but gets crazy stream numbers so streaming that game just makes sense.
all of this actually seems pretty healthy for dota's competitive scene, it's just annoying for me when I want to put a stream on in the background while I work lol. I end up watching a lot more league and HS than I'd expect to given that I barely play either game relative to dota.
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every other game sucks so people just sit in front of streams and watch instead of playing themselves ez
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I wouldn't say streaming is that big in SC2 either, at least from what I remember when I followed it. You hardly ever saw top SC2 pros stream at all, it just made sense there because they were koreans anyway. It's kinda like Dota where the famous streamers are not actually players, they are either washed up pros or just entertainers.
Watching but not playing was a big thing, but that's because people dont like playing RTS'. They didnt even when they were popular.
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I mean, some streamers do fun stuff. Like Fear was doing the A-Z hero challenge before just because he could and it was amusing to watch. That's really the part that surprises me most. It takes so little effort to have an mildly entertaining stream, so why not put in that minimal effort. But most Dota pros seem to just turn on the streaming software and play their normal pub games.
I mean, I really only watch the casters like Merlini others because they are at least fun to watch.
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So...
Do you guys know any way to improve at dota mechanics?
I have usually good decision making, but my hands can't keep up with my ideas/plans.
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On February 11 2015 06:45 SKC wrote:
I wouldn't say streaming is that big in SC2 either, at least from what I remember when I followed it. You hardly ever saw top SC2 pros stream at all, it just made sense there because they were koreans anyway. It's kinda like Dota where the famous streamers are not actually players, they are either washed up pros or just entertainers.
Watching but not playing was a big thing, but that's because people dont like playing RTS'. They didnt even when they were popular.
I mean most of the absolute top players were kinda inconsistent about streaming back when I was really into SC2 but you'd get a lot more tier 2 westerners who streamed a lot.
Like you'd see most of the players on EG/Liquid/whatever who were still good and active but not contenders to win tournaments streaming pretty frequently. Demuslim is a good example.
The top SC2 streamers have always either been entertainers or the super-infrequent streams of actual top players though.
On February 11 2015 06:46 Plansix wrote:
I mean, I really only watch the casters like Merlini others because they are at least fun to watch.
the only reason I actually came back to dota (quit after 6.52e) was because TL featured Merlini one day and I was a huge MYM fanboy back in the day lol.
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On February 11 2015 06:49 Howie_Dewitt wrote:
So...
Do you guys know any way to improve at dota mechanics?
I have usually good decision making, but my hands can't keep up with my ideas/plans.
Play more. Be benjamin button if you're over 28
when you die, think about what you couldve done to avoid it
then try to die less
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That is both the most useful and useless post you could have made. Warm hands help as well, playing heroes that require mechanical skill, Tinker, Chen, Ench, Enigma, Meepo, etc would help, of course.
@SKC, not numb3rs
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On February 11 2015 06:50 SKC wrote:
Play more
Try I'll try that tonight (no sarcasm, I haven't played in days) I need to get practicing for HSL since my treant and a few other 5s are rusty. Time to out draft people :D
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I think if you actively focus on your mechanics, they will get better. Sorta like in BW I would artifically start spamming and shit, and over time that spamming would turn into more and more efficient actions.
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EPT
