• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 15:24
CET 21:24
KST 05:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down21ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League99
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book 5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
How SKT1 S-Tiers Felt To Be Swept By Flash Rollback Netcode in Brood War Top Players of October 2026 (EBPD Rankings) BW General Discussion Sagi.gg Launcher Released
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [IPSL] IPSL Winter 26-27 Ro24 is HERE! [$1250] International ShieldBattery League
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Deus Ex 3!? Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Chess Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10101 users

Dire Straits: Dota on the Clock

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
June 13 2014 19:56 GMT
#1

Liquipedia

Datdota

Focus Mode
Turn off Focus Mode [x]

Dire Straits:
Dota on the Clock



The Dire advantage has been a controversial topic in the Dota 2 professional scene. During the recently concluded Summit LAN event, we observed a 60% win rate coming from the Dire, but as a whole, it’s actually the Radiant side holding the net advantage with a 53% win rate in 6.81. We take a look at the Grand Finals series where the Dire took all 5 games to try to dissect this mystery.

The first topic that’s usually brought up when comparing sides is Roshan positioning. Out of the 10 Roshan kills during the Grand Finals, an astonishing 90% of the kills were attributed to the Dire side.

Game 1
— No Roshan Kills —


Game 2When
·Dire23 min


Game 3When
·Dire16 min
·Radiant27 min
·Dire35 min
·Dire46 min


Game 4When
·Dire18 min
·Dire31 min


Game 5When
·Dire16 min
·Dire27 min
·Dire36 min


What's easy to miss about the balance between sides is that it’s not necessarily an absolute advantage determined from the start, but a "sliding window" depending on the length of the match. Looking at the entire Summit LAN event as a small sample, we can start to see a pattern on when the Dire advantage starts to come into effect:

[image loading]


Longer games tended to favor Dire victories with an average game time of 45 minutes, while shorter games were usually taken by the Radiant, with an average game time of 32 minutes. For the 5 games in the Grand Finals, each match ran an average of 37 minutes.

This intriguing fact was perhaps not a secret to DK and EG, and likely was the basis behind some of the unorthodox decisions from both teams. In trying to win as fast as possible, we saw some uncommon heroes being drafted, along with unconventional item and skill builds.

Game 1: Venomancer and Abaddon


[image loading] [image loading] [image loading] [image loading] [image loading]
*Abaddon pick/ban rate in 6.81: 4.8%
*Venomancer pick/ban rate in 6.81: 4.9%


Just by looking at the heroes, we can see that EG was leaning towards a pushing lineup, with obvious push heroes such as Dragon Knight and Nature’s Prophet. Digging deeper, we can see that EG was trying to end the game early. The unconventional core Venomancer maxed out his Plague Wards first, with Jakiro opting to skill Liquid Fire as soon as possible. This was further supplemented by an early Mek build coming out from Prophet.

Abaddon, although being the odd one out in this lineup, complemented their strategy by providing strong healing and shielding spells during the phase they wanted to end the game in.

EG’s strategy did seem to fare well in the early game, with EG starting to build up a significant lead into the mid game. Unfortunately they were not able to break high ground, and after a couple of failed attempts, DK was able to turn it around in their favor and take the game.

Game 2: The Surprise Strategy


[image loading] [image loading] [image loading] [image loading] [image loading]
*Leshrac pick/ban rate in 6.81: 6.8%


Although most people were surprised by the mid Axe played by BurNing and the core Leshrac by Mushi, the strategy was similar to that of EG’s. Leshrac, being a naturally strong push hero and Axe, a hero that excels at early skirmishes, led the helm as DK made their attempt at an early victory.

With a role reversal of what happened in game 1, DK was able to take a very large lead going into mid-game (With a 10k gold lead at 20 minutes). But after failing one high-ground attempt, EG turned it around, equalizing the gold lead and eventually securing the game.

Game 3: A Cunning Facade


[image loading] [image loading] [image loading] [image loading] [image loading]
*Windranger pick/ban rate in 6.81: 4.9%


At first glance, this may seem like an attempt from EG to build up an extremely strong team fight lineup with Faceless Void being the safety net in case the game goes to late game. Although correct, this was also a very crafty way drafting yet again a push-oriented lineup.

First we look at Razor. With mason behind the controls, we see that his item choices were an Aghanim’s Scepter along with a Refresher Orb. This build is usually known to tear down structures, and was complemented with a BKB pick up, it was probably the case that mason’s job was to make sure he lives long enough to make sure his ult does as much damage to buildings as possible.

Next, we saw Arteezy playing the Windranger in the middle lane. Although becoming less popular in the more recent patches, we saw an even more obscure decision as Arteezy chose to skill Focused Fire at level 6. Out of 961 professional Windranger games, this has only ever happened 5 times. Looking at the reasoning behind this, it’s important to note that Focused Fire has received 4 separate buffs since 6.79. The latest 6.81b patch, which was released days before the event, drastically lowered the mana cost and gave EG another avenue of tower damage.

Continuing with the trend of the first two games, the early game looked extremely good for EG with Arteezy completely outlaning BurNing’s Lycan in the middle lane. But as EG was not able to breach high ground, DK eventually turned it around with a farmed OD and Lycan in the late game.

Game 4/5: The Pattern Breaks



The last two games had DK playing on the Radiant side. Although we were able to see some cool picks from DK, notably BurNing playing on a Silencer and a support Bounty Hunter, the pattern did not hold as strongly as it did before. DK seemed to have given up on the push-heavy strategy in favor of a gank-heavy lineup where they hoped to snowball off the early lead to finish the game early. Unfortunately, this also did not work out for DK as they lost the final two games, giving a 3-2 victory to EG.

One cool thing to note is the consistent trend of the delegation of non-conventional heroes to the typical carry players when on Radiant. Over the 5 games, we saw BurNing playing Axe and Silencer, and mason take up Venomancer and Razor.

Connecting the Dots



At a quick glance, The Summit Grand Finals may have been just an interesting series with a diverse hero pool (since we saw a staggering 39 heroes being drafted over the 5 games). But there was a recurring pattern suggesting that the “ticking time bomb” Dire advantage was what affected the Radiant drafter the most. With this late game disadvantage hanging over them, the Radiant side consistently drafted with early domination in mind. While some of the lineups could have been successful with slight adjustments, the Radiant drafts as a whole were too experimental and unrefined. They failed to take rax early, and with a lack of carry potential they collapsed in the late game.




Credits:
Writer: KF91
Editors: riptide, phantasmal, Firebolt145, Heyoka

@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
June 13 2014 20:03 GMT
#2
I didn't see you mention it, so I'll say this: the reason radiant do so well in short games is because their offlane is much much easier.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Verator
Profile Joined June 2010
United States283 Posts
June 13 2014 20:07 GMT
#3
I feel a lot of this comes down to radiant side not really abusing what is their early game advantage as well, mainly their much stronger laning. In the most dominant games from radiant teams, we see teams going for a dual or tricore lineup taking advantage of the safer lanes to get cores to come online earlier, and using them to snowball. Aka the typical Alliance style draft.

Get your Luna or Antimage or whatever else to come online faster, your mid and offlaner get their item or two to come online earlier, and then you can snowball from teamfighting. Instead we're seeing more ratty or cheesy style push strats, hoping they can capitalize on being able to rush the opponent down very soon or distract them enough for a solo hero to get work done, or we see very ganking focused drafts, that can't manage to fight one it comes to breaking base because they lack teamfight for when the enemy is finally together.
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence. -- Bertrand Russell
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
June 13 2014 20:11 GMT
#4
One thing that needs to be mentioned is that while Dire won all 5 games in the finals, 4 of the games were Dire first pick.
Moderator
Zandar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands1541 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-13 20:13:26
June 13 2014 20:13 GMT
#5
On June 14 2014 05:03 Sn0_Man wrote:
I didn't see you mention it, so I'll say this: the reason radiant do so well in short games is because their offlane is much much easier.


Just curious, why exactly is the radiant offlane so much easier?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-13 20:14:02
June 13 2014 20:13 GMT
#6
You kinda need to use a bigger sample pool, where you can compare the effects of first pick as well.
Verator
Profile Joined June 2010
United States283 Posts
June 13 2014 20:17 GMT
#7
On June 14 2014 05:13 Zandar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2014 05:03 Sn0_Man wrote:
I didn't see you mention it, so I'll say this: the reason radiant do so well in short games is because their offlane is much much easier.


Just curious, why exactly is the radiant offlane so much easier?


The dire secondary pull camp is right next to the river and the lane, so the offlaner can get xp from when the safelane pulls, or if the lane is under the dire tower, the radiant can pull his own creep wave to that side camp himself to kill it for xp/ deny his own creeps.
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence. -- Bertrand Russell
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14912 Posts
June 13 2014 20:18 GMT
#8
You can juke in the trees, you can side pull, distance is shorter between your tower and where the creeps meet (I believe)
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
June 13 2014 20:19 GMT
#9
On June 14 2014 05:13 Zandar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2014 05:03 Sn0_Man wrote:
I didn't see you mention it, so I'll say this: the reason radiant do so well in short games is because their offlane is much much easier.


Just curious, why exactly is the radiant offlane so much easier?

The trees are arranged so it is easier to leech exp if they pull creeps under tower, you can also pull the creepwave from the hard camp if you cut a tree down at any x:22 or x:52 timing
In the woods, there lurks..
DavoS
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States4605 Posts
June 13 2014 21:06 GMT
#10
Makes sense. The longer games go, the more getting an objective like Rosh can help
"KDA is actually the most useless stat in the game" Aui_2000
KF91
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
Canada221 Posts
June 13 2014 22:18 GMT
#11
On June 14 2014 05:13 SKC wrote:
You kinda need to use a bigger sample pool, where you can compare the effects of first pick as well.


Yes, I will be keeping an eye out with the upcoming finals for DreamLeague, ESL One and of course TI4. This will give us a better sample with regards to how 6.81b is affecting drafts.
broodbucket
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia963 Posts
June 14 2014 00:46 GMT
#12
The lategame Dire advantage is real, but I think teams are still so far from the "skill ceiling" that it's not gonna be the reason someone won/lost a series.
FrostNixon
Profile Joined July 2010
Bulgaria215 Posts
June 14 2014 01:09 GMT
#13
If your radiant offlaner will have an easier time and more xp an your solo mid will be harder to gank, not to mention the safe lane, then losing an early rosh or two is worth it, imho.
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
June 14 2014 02:07 GMT
#14
I think the game needs more mobility heroes like Furion/wisp/ember so radiant could put pressure on top lane harder late game. These heroes are currently all top ban pick right now for the same reason.
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
June 14 2014 02:42 GMT
#15
Looking at the data from DatDota, at the Summit, the record for games where Radiant was first pick was 13 Radiant wins to 15 Dire wins, while the record for games where Radiant was 2nd pick was 2 Radiant wins to 7 Dire wins.

It's a small sample size, but it indicates that the old "first pick or Dire" rule that separates first pick advantage from Dire advantage is at least somewhat appropriate for balancing out the respective advantages, and that the possibility of games where the advantage is compounded should probably be avoided (in the case of the Grand Finals, the first 4 games were all Dire first pick).
Moderator
.yo
Profile Joined December 2013
United States29 Posts
June 14 2014 04:59 GMT
#16
Some more data will be exciting. I liked the analysis about the push lineups.
zergtat
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Hong Kong853 Posts
June 14 2014 05:22 GMT
#17
First pick for Dire/Radiant do need a mention I believe. Teams must know the dire advantage and still haven't fully exploit from their game plan.
Z: SEn P: White-Ra T: Polt
phantasmal
Profile Joined June 2013
276 Posts
June 14 2014 08:14 GMT
#18
The complaints about sample size or not including first pick are missing the point. This was a single, 37 game tournament. Of course it would never constitute a large enough sample.

If you want a large sample, datDota can easily provide one for all of 6.81 (Rad 1st .556, Dire 1st, .530, Rad 2nd, .470, Dire 2nd .444 over 1188 games) or 6.80 (Rad 1st .517, Rad 2nd .501, Dire 1st .499, Dire 2nd .483 over 1569 games). But that isn't even the whole story because datDota includes a lot of 2nd tier games. Maybe things change if we could filter it to only TI caliber teams. Then again, maybe not. Radiant (and 2nd pick) had the net advantage in TI3, despite champions Alliance going 18-3 on Dire.

The interesting thing KF91 has pointed out with the Summit has nothing to do with the side stats, which never would have been large enough to be relevant on their own, it's how the finals drafts appear to have been influenced by the idea of the Dire late-game advantage. It's not even the first time that DK has gone full push on the Radiant in a major finals this year, but I had a lot more confidence in that lineup than the one they used in game 2 vs EG.
Acritter
Profile Joined August 2010
Syria7637 Posts
June 14 2014 13:13 GMT
#19
I have to wonder how much of the Radi-win-early-Dire-win-late data is educated by its own mindset. I mean to say, how much of that trend is simply due to the fact that Radiant drafters are focusing on the early game and letting the lategame totally slide. If the perception is the lategame is unwinnable, then of course no serious drafter will draft for late, and then there's no way that a Radiant team can win the lategame, because they simply haven't drafted for it. It's self-fulfilling, to a degree.
dont let your memes be dreams - konydora, motivational speaker | not actually living in syria
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
June 14 2014 13:38 GMT
#20
I guess teams playing on the Radiant side should start mastering early game strategies.
Brood War loyalist
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
02:00
#68
RotterdaM907
TaKeTV 320
TKL 253
SteadfastSC168
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 907
ByuN 569
TKL 253
Nina 202
SteadfastSC 168
BRAT_OK 65
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 1079
Dewaltoss 125
ProTech61
HiyA 47
Shinee 35
Aegong 20
scan(afreeca) 14
Dota 2
qojqva2800
420jenkins990
monkeys_forever213
PGG 194
capcasts64
Counter-Strike
gobbtv285
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu1018
Other Games
tarik_tv7152
Grubby3739
Liquid`RaSZi2858
ceh91906
Beastyqt844
Mlord416
mouzStarbuck289
C9.Mang0183
XaKoH 138
Mew2King77
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL623
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 7
Other Games
BasetradeTV1
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Eskiya23 18
• Pr0nogo 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV676
League of Legends
• Nemesis3645
Other Games
• imaqtpie678
• Shiphtur584
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 36m
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
16h 36m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 4h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 14h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
IPSL
4 days
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
[ Show More ]
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
IPSL
5 days
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-01
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Proleague 2026-11-02
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

1xBet Invitational
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.