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General Discussion - Page 859

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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
Itzeddiieee
Profile Joined May 2010
Korea (South)787 Posts
August 19 2012 02:47 GMT
#17161
On August 19 2012 11:00 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Meh, still better than listening to some guy come in and talk about how epic pwnage that last game was where he went MoM furion with double rapier.


MoM furion double rapier is serious epic pwnage
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
August 19 2012 03:11 GMT
#17162
On August 19 2012 10:25 Kipsate wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2012 10:20 NB wrote:
On August 19 2012 09:34 SKC wrote:
On August 19 2012 09:26 NB wrote:
so does fucking american football... and baseball... and cricket.... yeahhhhhhhh.............

Sorry, but no, that's the probally the biggest issue with ESPORTS vs regular sports. It's pretty easy to understand that in football you simply have to kick the ball into the goal, or the basic rules in tennis, volleyball, whathever. I've never played american football in my life, or anything similar to it, and it was still fairly easy to understand the basics. Of course you won't be able to undertand tactics on more advanced stuff, but you don't really need to. And that's probally one of the most complicated sports out there.

Just look at the Olympics, how many people watch sports they never played or never even heard off, but undertand them just fine. Show SC2 to someone that doesn't undertand what an RTS is and they won't have a clue on what's going on.

i dont think we are talking about the same football.... The fact that the dominating audience of real sport is getting old and out dated as the new generation growing up under the influential of computing and internet would make something like computer games much more acceptable. Think about it this way: 100 years ago if you ask people if they ever dream of landing on the moon, you must be a lunatic while now, traveling to space is commercially available. As the society growing throw time, a lot of revolution will change the way we look at "modern" culture and right now is the period of computing technology over taking traditional physical activities.

Have you ever wonder why your parents or your grand parents want you to do sports? In my case its simply bc my dad fought in a war and the process of him growing up as a person is full with the definition of "dominant physically = dominant in society". Things have changed for the past 50 years or even just for the past decade. Instead of physical health, the needs for mental health is now raised as almost equal since the war period is now over. In a society, you are now more likely to be judged by your "intelligent" proven through out your education more than your physical well-being. Suddenly, real sports is no longer a dominant way to prove that you are 'alpha as fuck' inside a circle of people but money is a bigger variable. If you looks through most of the modern survey, women's criteria for their other half is more likely to be how success he is but how healthy and buff he look.

ALL OF THESE ARE CHANGING which will ultimately change what we are looking at the current ways to compete irl. People are now want a tool so that they could show how good they are at 'thinking' rather than 'working out' and video games just happen to fit into the right slot.

Fuck i spent too much time on this shit... most of these are what i told the guy who is doing his psychology graduate essay that i knew last year.


How is all that relevant to what he said about ease of understanding Olympics compared to Dota for the average person, just because ESPORTS might become a little more accepted doesn't mean the average person will understand what the fuck is going on in Dota compared to any sport in the Olympics.

good question and here is how. As the computing generation grew up under the influence of information technology, the gap of knowledge for an "average person" to understand a video game doesnt seem to be that big anymore. The current mordern culture which will be applied in the next 20 years will have a definition of "WoW" or "sc2" in it just like "google" has been added to the english dictionary in the last decade. The basic of knowledge in order for a person to understand a competitive computer game simply doesnt take that long no more. Remember it took us almost 10 years to fully understand BroodWar to make a competitive sports out of it in South Korea, after that it took us less than 1 year to grow the basic background for sc2.

Remember, we are not talking about a 1 or 2 years gap, its more like in the next 10-15 years, how will esport growth in comparison to traditional sport? In my personal opinion, the most important factor about esports at the moment is creating interesting aspects from an outside point of view to wake up the curiosity inside each casual audience and make them want to learn more about the game. This is where DotA, LoL or any esports title come in to play: how to engage an audience?

Well first of all, its about the casting talents. If in sc2 we had day9 who willingly to sit nights through nights and explaining to thousands of people how the game supposed to be played, in DotA we simply have tobi to scream the shit out of everything. Now which method is better is still up to debate but personally i find that there is a very interesting thing about tobi's approach to this: He creates hype and excitement which certainly attract people watching on the fly to wonder and find out what he is screaming about. From there, the time people need to invest to learn how the game works should NEVER be counted inside the equation. A person will learn what he likes no matter how difficult it is. In fact, you wouldnt know how difficult it is unless you have fully learned it. You can learn a bit about the game and enjoy it to a certain degree or you can fully commit and learn about it for years to start commentating at pro-level. The point is, it is all about the first impression and that is not based on the game but the people working around it.
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
frucisky
Profile Joined September 2010
Singapore2170 Posts
August 19 2012 03:17 GMT
#17163


This is beautiful
<3 DongRaeGu <3
Astarwulf
Profile Joined May 2010
United States63 Posts
August 19 2012 03:26 GMT
#17164
On August 19 2012 11:45 Kipsate wrote:
good as third item after EB+BKB or EB+Something survivable(manta is sometimes even enough)

its really slot efficient but not that much cost efficient.

Is the old morph really so out of style? the linkens or manta first style hardcarry farmalot style
It's still so strong
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-19 03:38:31
August 19 2012 03:38 GMT
#17165
Linkens has run a bit out of style but is still sometimes used, the thing about linkens is that it has a good buildup in perseverance, however

Ring of Aquila was added
Morphling Morph was buffed, giving stats(this is fucking huge and makes him unkilleable at an early level unless comitting vast amount of heroes)

Bottle, wand/stick, ring of Aquilla is usually enough to see him through the laning phase if you protect him half decently so he can get a quick EB after that he can get BKB for the survivability.
Linkens doesn't actually offer you that much, it only blocks 1 spell, on top of it a linkens is quite expensive(more expensive then an Eblade even). Also, Linkens+BKB is usually overkill but you do usually want the Magic Immunity(not to mention that BKB+Linkens is fairly slot inefficient).
WriterXiao8~~
igotmyown
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4291 Posts
August 19 2012 03:38 GMT
#17166
On August 19 2012 12:26 Astarwulf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2012 11:45 Kipsate wrote:
good as third item after EB+BKB or EB+Something survivable(manta is sometimes even enough)

its really slot efficient but not that much cost efficient.

Is the old morph really so out of style? the linkens or manta first style hardcarry farmalot style
It's still so strong

It depends how much (or not) your team is leading the match. If your team can win team fights with just your wave form and right click, linkens is safer and will let you get bigger and bigger. If your team will lose a rax if you have just a defensive item, then you need something more aggressive.
Dead9
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States4725 Posts
August 19 2012 03:40 GMT
#17167
in pubs linkens is pretty good cus you can just solo farm forever and nobody is coordinated enough to kill you
it owns
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-19 03:51:05
August 19 2012 03:45 GMT
#17168
On August 19 2012 10:33 PrinceXizor wrote:
no. you can't. you can tell slipping and falling = bad, and impressive looking things = good, but beyond that you have to be watching or involved with the sport for some time.

That's the thing though. You can feel excitement and involvement in the sport at a visceral level with just that level of understanding. With DotA, there's absolutely nothing that engages that rudimentary visceral excitement for the uninitiated spectator.

This isn't exactly something easy to get around, because by nature, something happening between two human beings is going to be more emotionally engaging than two characters on the screen--particularly when there's no immediate aspect of those characters for the spectator to relate to/empathize with.

When you're at the Olympics, even if you have no understanding of the sport, there's still the baseline instinct of rooting for your country. You can empathize with the players on an emotional level. With E-sports there's an inherent barrier to this because of the degree of separation between the player and his character on the screen.
Moderator
Nilrem
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3684 Posts
August 19 2012 03:50 GMT
#17169
On August 19 2012 12:26 Astarwulf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2012 11:45 Kipsate wrote:
good as third item after EB+BKB or EB+Something survivable(manta is sometimes even enough)

its really slot efficient but not that much cost efficient.

Is the old morph really so out of style? the linkens or manta first style hardcarry farmalot style
It's still so strong


Yeah, at least from what I have seen and known from original dota. Morphling has changed quite a bit over the years, especially due to the buffs like to morph ability itself. Manta I do not see anymore, but linkens still gets used. Especially whe you are going against a lot of single target spells. Getting ethereal blade is nice and all but getting the eagle is annoying at times. Since you dont get any benefit from it for a while.
Meepo Haters gonna Hate. https://twitter.com/KazeNilrem (@KazeNilrem)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-19 03:54:48
August 19 2012 03:52 GMT
#17170
On August 19 2012 12:50 Nilrem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2012 12:26 Astarwulf wrote:
On August 19 2012 11:45 Kipsate wrote:
good as third item after EB+BKB or EB+Something survivable(manta is sometimes even enough)

its really slot efficient but not that much cost efficient.

Is the old morph really so out of style? the linkens or manta first style hardcarry farmalot style
It's still so strong


Yeah, at least from what I have seen and known from original dota. Morphling has changed quite a bit over the years, especially due to the buffs like to morph ability itself. Manta I do not see anymore, but linkens still gets used. Especially whe you are going against a lot of single target spells. Getting ethereal blade is nice and all but getting the eagle is annoying at times. Since you dont get any benefit from it for a while.

Manta is still fine, it's just that given all the other options, and the fact that Morphling is a much stronger midgame teamfighter than he used to be (resulting in games ending a fair bit earlier, and none of the old farm-to-6-item Morphling), it's quite frequent that the game will not get to the point where Morphling will want or need Manta.
Moderator
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
August 19 2012 04:00 GMT
#17171
On August 19 2012 12:17 frucisky wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a84k4BbmNdQ&feature=youtu.be

This is beautiful


this was amazing
good parody of that zombie shooter trailer
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Nilrem
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3684 Posts
August 19 2012 04:05 GMT
#17172
On August 19 2012 12:52 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2012 12:50 Nilrem wrote:
On August 19 2012 12:26 Astarwulf wrote:
On August 19 2012 11:45 Kipsate wrote:
good as third item after EB+BKB or EB+Something survivable(manta is sometimes even enough)

its really slot efficient but not that much cost efficient.

Is the old morph really so out of style? the linkens or manta first style hardcarry farmalot style
It's still so strong


Yeah, at least from what I have seen and known from original dota. Morphling has changed quite a bit over the years, especially due to the buffs like to morph ability itself. Manta I do not see anymore, but linkens still gets used. Especially whe you are going against a lot of single target spells. Getting ethereal blade is nice and all but getting the eagle is annoying at times. Since you dont get any benefit from it for a while.

Manta is still fine, it's just that given all the other options, and the fact that Morphling is a much stronger midgame teamfighter than he used to be (resulting in games ending a fair bit earlier, and none of the old farm-to-6-item Morphling), it's quite frequent that the game will not get to the point where Morphling will want or need Manta.


Just feels like morphling is turning more into a cannon than just a right click carry. adaptive strike, ethereal blade, wave form, so much damage going on. I remember when some use to get satanic for the strength gained so can be converted into agility. Fun times fun times.
Meepo Haters gonna Hate. https://twitter.com/KazeNilrem (@KazeNilrem)
Xinder
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2269 Posts
August 19 2012 04:21 GMT
#17173
I need to stop doing MM at night. Holy fuck the terribads come out.
"Daaayyyy9, King Pussyfoot of NinnyVille"- Day9 while playing Amnesia
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-19 04:36:32
August 19 2012 04:23 GMT
#17174
Morphling is too strong atm imo, he has it all aswell, he is tanky(by that I mean broken tanky) he does great damage(ridicilous with eblade), early, mid and lategame(courtesy of Waveform, morph and Eblade), he can push, he can safely splitpush with his replicate.

he just doesn't counterpush and doesn't really have any CC, thats about it.
WriterXiao8~~
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
August 19 2012 04:33 GMT
#17175
On August 19 2012 13:21 Xinder wrote:
I need to stop doing MM at night. Holy fuck the terribads come out.

pretty sure you should all avoid weekend dota.... horrible casual noobs flood up the match making system by partying up cause a lot of imbalance team. My weekly routine is sun night -> friday morning win 90%, friday afternoon -> sunday evening lose 90%....
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
Xinder
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2269 Posts
August 19 2012 04:52 GMT
#17176
On August 19 2012 13:33 NB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2012 13:21 Xinder wrote:
I need to stop doing MM at night. Holy fuck the terribads come out.

pretty sure you should all avoid weekend dota.... horrible casual noobs flood up the match making system by partying up cause a lot of imbalance team. My weekly routine is sun night -> friday morning win 90%, friday afternoon -> sunday evening lose 90%....


I'm starting to notice the pattern. I can get above my 50% win/loss during the week. But i tank it to sub 50% when I play on the weekend.
"Daaayyyy9, King Pussyfoot of NinnyVille"- Day9 while playing Amnesia
Cool Cat
Profile Joined June 2009
United States1644 Posts
August 19 2012 05:36 GMT
#17177
On August 19 2012 13:52 Xinder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2012 13:33 NB wrote:
On August 19 2012 13:21 Xinder wrote:
I need to stop doing MM at night. Holy fuck the terribads come out.

pretty sure you should all avoid weekend dota.... horrible casual noobs flood up the match making system by partying up cause a lot of imbalance team. My weekly routine is sun night -> friday morning win 90%, friday afternoon -> sunday evening lose 90%....


I'm starting to notice the pattern. I can get above my 50% win/loss during the week. But i tank it to sub 50% when I play on the weekend.

You might be confusing causation with correlation here.
Xinder
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2269 Posts
August 19 2012 06:23 GMT
#17178
On August 19 2012 14:36 Cool Cat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2012 13:52 Xinder wrote:
On August 19 2012 13:33 NB wrote:
On August 19 2012 13:21 Xinder wrote:
I need to stop doing MM at night. Holy fuck the terribads come out.

pretty sure you should all avoid weekend dota.... horrible casual noobs flood up the match making system by partying up cause a lot of imbalance team. My weekly routine is sun night -> friday morning win 90%, friday afternoon -> sunday evening lose 90%....


I'm starting to notice the pattern. I can get above my 50% win/loss during the week. But i tank it to sub 50% when I play on the weekend.

You might be confusing causation with correlation here.


It's 1:20AM here so I'm just gonna ignore the big words and go to bed. I'm not sure what you mean but I'm sure in the morning I'll bother to use a dictionary and look them up.
"Daaayyyy9, King Pussyfoot of NinnyVille"- Day9 while playing Amnesia
Nilrem
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3684 Posts
August 19 2012 06:34 GMT
#17179
On August 19 2012 15:23 Xinder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2012 14:36 Cool Cat wrote:
On August 19 2012 13:52 Xinder wrote:
On August 19 2012 13:33 NB wrote:
On August 19 2012 13:21 Xinder wrote:
I need to stop doing MM at night. Holy fuck the terribads come out.

pretty sure you should all avoid weekend dota.... horrible casual noobs flood up the match making system by partying up cause a lot of imbalance team. My weekly routine is sun night -> friday morning win 90%, friday afternoon -> sunday evening lose 90%....


I'm starting to notice the pattern. I can get above my 50% win/loss during the week. But i tank it to sub 50% when I play on the weekend.

You might be confusing causation with correlation here.


It's 1:20AM here so I'm just gonna ignore the big words and go to bed. I'm not sure what you mean but I'm sure in the morning I'll bother to use a dictionary and look them up.


Uhh, just think of it like this. Is the pattern the result of it being the weekend (causation), or is it mere coincidence (correlation)? In other words, the person claims that your experience is only coincidence.
Meepo Haters gonna Hate. https://twitter.com/KazeNilrem (@KazeNilrem)
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34505 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-19 07:01:25
August 19 2012 07:01 GMT
#17180
Why are we now talking about philosophy jeez can't we just talk about dota
Moderator
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