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General Discussion - Page 799

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
Oktyabr
Profile Joined July 2011
Singapore2234 Posts
August 06 2012 11:29 GMT
#15961
On August 06 2012 19:45 Qbek wrote:
If an ally is running from a tower and no creeps are in range, if you also are in range of the tower a click your ally and the tower will attack you instead. It has hardcoded to attack anybody who attacked the hero above anything else and this tricks it's ai. Can save your allies life quite often when diving together


I think it's the reverse. If A and B are running from the tower and A is getting hit by the tower, A must a+click B to make the tower hit B instead.
SilverStar
Profile Joined January 2012
Sweden18511 Posts
August 06 2012 12:07 GMT
#15962
mouzsports will no longer stream on twitch since they have now a contract with own3d. So cwm, singsing and black will be streaming on own3d.

Qbek
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Poland12923 Posts
August 06 2012 12:08 GMT
#15963
On August 06 2012 20:29 Oktyabr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 19:45 Qbek wrote:
If an ally is running from a tower and no creeps are in range, if you also are in range of the tower a click your ally and the tower will attack you instead. It has hardcoded to attack anybody who attacked the hero above anything else and this tricks it's ai. Can save your allies life quite often when diving together


I think it's the reverse. If A and B are running from the tower and A is getting hit by the tower, A must a+click B to make the tower hit B instead.

Works both ways I think
This space left intentionally dank /)3(\ http://i.imgur.com/RmeEUcF.png
cilinder007
Profile Joined August 2010
Slovenia7251 Posts
August 06 2012 12:25 GMT
#15964
I dont think it does
Ramong
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark1706 Posts
August 06 2012 12:28 GMT
#15965
On August 06 2012 21:07 SilverStar wrote:
mouzsports will no longer stream on twitch since they have now a contract with own3d. So cwm, singsing and black will be streaming on own3d.

https://twitter.com/Sing2X/status/232431471657373696


and he is not online on his new stream.

http://www.own3d.tv/mousesports/live/51114

Go follow!
"Yeah buddy"
anonymitylol
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada4477 Posts
August 06 2012 12:33 GMT
#15966
On August 06 2012 21:08 Qbek wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 20:29 Oktyabr wrote:
On August 06 2012 19:45 Qbek wrote:
If an ally is running from a tower and no creeps are in range, if you also are in range of the tower a click your ally and the tower will attack you instead. It has hardcoded to attack anybody who attacked the hero above anything else and this tricks it's ai. Can save your allies life quite often when diving together


I think it's the reverse. If A and B are running from the tower and A is getting hit by the tower, A must a+click B to make the tower hit B instead.

Works both ways I think


No, I'm 90% sure it's only the first way. If A a+clicks B, the tower will attack A.
gold on my wrist phone in my pocket
Qbek
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Poland12923 Posts
August 06 2012 12:36 GMT
#15967
I'm sure you can get aggro by attacking an ally hero, did this all the time in dota1 and I think 2 or 3 times in dota2( I dive much less I think). don't know about the other one really
This space left intentionally dank /)3(\ http://i.imgur.com/RmeEUcF.png
Unleashing
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark14978 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 12:43:51
August 06 2012 12:40 GMT
#15968
On August 06 2012 09:42 AndyJay wrote:
Bloodseeker's strength is dominating the shit out of 1v1 mid laning. I'm not saying he can do this in pro games but at least at my MMR ( mid lvl pub games) a bs can last hit everything vs a low dmg solo ranged mid (and still do well and often win lane vs melee's as well) and get a huge gold/exp advantage which snowballs his ganking/carrying ability. So yes Night stalker is obviously a better ganker, but a NS can't regen form half hp back to full off one creep wave either. That may or may not be useful, and as a useful hero NS might be better overall, but they are not simply the same but NS better.

Winning your lane is pointless if you still aren't very useful to your team.
Honestly, i don't have any problem against BS mid, ever. Not even with heroes like rhasta.

Pub seeker works if your whole team can snowball out of control and have a huge advantage.
But the later the game goes against a real carry he'll just not really be worth it.
From the Ghastly Eyrie I can see to the ends of the world, and from this vantage point I declare with utter certainty that this one is in the bag!
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
August 06 2012 12:53 GMT
#15969
On August 06 2012 21:33 anonymitylol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 21:08 Qbek wrote:
On August 06 2012 20:29 Oktyabr wrote:
On August 06 2012 19:45 Qbek wrote:
If an ally is running from a tower and no creeps are in range, if you also are in range of the tower a click your ally and the tower will attack you instead. It has hardcoded to attack anybody who attacked the hero above anything else and this tricks it's ai. Can save your allies life quite often when diving together


I think it's the reverse. If A and B are running from the tower and A is getting hit by the tower, A must a+click B to make the tower hit B instead.

Works both ways I think


No, I'm 90% sure it's only the first way. If A a+clicks B, the tower will attack A.

i'm 100% sure if B a clicks A, tower will drop the aggro of B
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
Shraft
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden701 Posts
August 06 2012 12:57 GMT
#15970
On August 06 2012 21:53 Erasme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 21:33 anonymitylol wrote:
On August 06 2012 21:08 Qbek wrote:
On August 06 2012 20:29 Oktyabr wrote:
On August 06 2012 19:45 Qbek wrote:
If an ally is running from a tower and no creeps are in range, if you also are in range of the tower a click your ally and the tower will attack you instead. It has hardcoded to attack anybody who attacked the hero above anything else and this tricks it's ai. Can save your allies life quite often when diving together


I think it's the reverse. If A and B are running from the tower and A is getting hit by the tower, A must a+click B to make the tower hit B instead.

Works both ways I think


No, I'm 90% sure it's only the first way. If A a+clicks B, the tower will attack A.

i'm 100% sure if B a clicks A, tower will drop the aggro of B

I can confirm this too. Not sure if it works the other way.
anonymitylol
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada4477 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 13:18:32
August 06 2012 13:00 GMT
#15971
On August 06 2012 21:53 Erasme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 21:33 anonymitylol wrote:
On August 06 2012 21:08 Qbek wrote:
On August 06 2012 20:29 Oktyabr wrote:
On August 06 2012 19:45 Qbek wrote:
If an ally is running from a tower and no creeps are in range, if you also are in range of the tower a click your ally and the tower will attack you instead. It has hardcoded to attack anybody who attacked the hero above anything else and this tricks it's ai. Can save your allies life quite often when diving together


I think it's the reverse. If A and B are running from the tower and A is getting hit by the tower, A must a+click B to make the tower hit B instead.

Works both ways I think


No, I'm 90% sure it's only the first way. If A a+clicks B, the tower will attack A.

i'm 100% sure if B a clicks A, tower will drop the aggro of B


No, because the tower AI targets heroes ATTACKING heroes first and foremost. Attacking a friendly hero will draw aggro onto you, which is why you see professional players a-click their teammates if they're low and being attacked by a tower.

It goes like this:

Heroes attacking heroes > Creeps attacking heroes > Units hitting the tower > Units in range

The only way to get aggro off of yourself to another target is by attacking a creep. Attacking another hero will make the tower hit you.



EDIT: Just tested it, I had it backwards. If you're being attacked, and a-click a friendly hero it makes the tower re-evaluate its' target and makes it attack the nearest friendly unit to it, whether it be a creep or allied hero.

If there's an enemy hero nearby, you can a-click them to take the aggro off of your ally, to you.
gold on my wrist phone in my pocket
BlitzerSC
Profile Joined May 2011
Italy8800 Posts
August 06 2012 13:05 GMT
#15972
I'll try to test this in the game I'm playing right now.
fleeze
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany895 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 13:27:34
August 06 2012 13:25 GMT
#15973
On August 06 2012 22:00 anonymitylol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 21:53 Erasme wrote:
On August 06 2012 21:33 anonymitylol wrote:
On August 06 2012 21:08 Qbek wrote:
On August 06 2012 20:29 Oktyabr wrote:
On August 06 2012 19:45 Qbek wrote:
If an ally is running from a tower and no creeps are in range, if you also are in range of the tower a click your ally and the tower will attack you instead. It has hardcoded to attack anybody who attacked the hero above anything else and this tricks it's ai. Can save your allies life quite often when diving together


I think it's the reverse. If A and B are running from the tower and A is getting hit by the tower, A must a+click B to make the tower hit B instead.

Works both ways I think


No, I'm 90% sure it's only the first way. If A a+clicks B, the tower will attack A.

i'm 100% sure if B a clicks A, tower will drop the aggro of B


No, because the tower AI targets heroes ATTACKING heroes first and foremost. Attacking a friendly hero will draw aggro onto you, which is why you see professional players a-click their teammates if they're low and being attacked by a tower.

It goes like this:

Heroes attacking heroes > Creeps attacking heroes > Units hitting the tower > Units in range

The only way to get aggro off of yourself to another target is by attacking a creep. Attacking another hero will make the tower hit you.



EDIT: Just tested it, I had it backwards. If you're being attacked, and a-click a friendly hero it makes the tower re-evaluate its' target and makes it attack your ally.


you got it totally wrong and your edit is half-truth.

If you are getting attacked by a tower you can get the tower aggro of if you attack a target (creep or hero) on YOUR team. the new target will be randomly chosen among viable targets.
interesting would be if theres two heroes targetting each other which one would get hit.

Heroes attacking heroes > Creeps attacking heroes > Heroes/Creeps hitting the tower > Heroes/Creeps fighting enemy Creeps > Heroes/Creeps in tower range > Heroes attacking his teams Heroes/Creeps
lozarian
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1043 Posts
August 06 2012 13:26 GMT
#15974
On August 06 2012 22:00 anonymitylol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 21:53 Erasme wrote:
On August 06 2012 21:33 anonymitylol wrote:
On August 06 2012 21:08 Qbek wrote:
On August 06 2012 20:29 Oktyabr wrote:
On August 06 2012 19:45 Qbek wrote:
If an ally is running from a tower and no creeps are in range, if you also are in range of the tower a click your ally and the tower will attack you instead. It has hardcoded to attack anybody who attacked the hero above anything else and this tricks it's ai. Can save your allies life quite often when diving together


I think it's the reverse. If A and B are running from the tower and A is getting hit by the tower, A must a+click B to make the tower hit B instead.

Works both ways I think


No, I'm 90% sure it's only the first way. If A a+clicks B, the tower will attack A.

i'm 100% sure if B a clicks A, tower will drop the aggro of B


No, because the tower AI targets heroes ATTACKING heroes first and foremost. Attacking a friendly hero will draw aggro onto you, which is why you see professional players a-click their teammates if they're low and being attacked by a tower.

It goes like this:

Heroes attacking heroes > Creeps attacking heroes > Units hitting the tower > Units in range

The only way to get aggro off of yourself to another target is by attacking a creep. Attacking another hero will make the tower hit you.



EDIT: Just tested it, I had it backwards. If you're being attacked, and a-click a friendly hero it makes the tower re-evaluate its' target and makes it attack the nearest friendly unit to it, whether it be a creep or allied hero.

If there's an enemy hero nearby, you can a-click them to take the aggro off of your ally, to you.


that's not how it should work, does work in dota 1, and from memory does work in dota 2. If you attack a hero in dota 1, it bumps you up the aggro queue, both from towers and units - hence you can draw aggro as axe by doing an attack command on any hero on the map.

If that's how it works in dota 2 it is the exact opposite to dota 1, and should be reported as a bug. Attacking heroes (allied or enemy) should gain aggro in a 500 aoe.
For every battle honour a thousand heroes die alone, unsung, and unremembered.
Dead9
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States4725 Posts
August 06 2012 13:34 GMT
#15975
On August 06 2012 21:40 Unleashing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 09:42 AndyJay wrote:
Bloodseeker's strength is dominating the shit out of 1v1 mid laning. I'm not saying he can do this in pro games but at least at my MMR ( mid lvl pub games) a bs can last hit everything vs a low dmg solo ranged mid (and still do well and often win lane vs melee's as well) and get a huge gold/exp advantage which snowballs his ganking/carrying ability. So yes Night stalker is obviously a better ganker, but a NS can't regen form half hp back to full off one creep wave either. That may or may not be useful, and as a useful hero NS might be better overall, but they are not simply the same but NS better.

Winning your lane is pointless if you still aren't very useful to your team.
Honestly, i don't have any problem against BS mid, ever. Not even with heroes like rhasta.

Pub seeker works if your whole team can snowball out of control and have a huge advantage.
But the later the game goes against a real carry he'll just not really be worth it.

that's cus he's not a hard carry and shouldn't be played as one lol
you could say the same thing about night stalker or any other hero that peaks midgame
fleeze
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany895 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 13:37:22
August 06 2012 13:36 GMT
#15976
On August 06 2012 22:26 lozarian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 22:00 anonymitylol wrote:
On August 06 2012 21:53 Erasme wrote:
On August 06 2012 21:33 anonymitylol wrote:
On August 06 2012 21:08 Qbek wrote:
On August 06 2012 20:29 Oktyabr wrote:
On August 06 2012 19:45 Qbek wrote:
If an ally is running from a tower and no creeps are in range, if you also are in range of the tower a click your ally and the tower will attack you instead. It has hardcoded to attack anybody who attacked the hero above anything else and this tricks it's ai. Can save your allies life quite often when diving together


I think it's the reverse. If A and B are running from the tower and A is getting hit by the tower, A must a+click B to make the tower hit B instead.

Works both ways I think


No, I'm 90% sure it's only the first way. If A a+clicks B, the tower will attack A.

i'm 100% sure if B a clicks A, tower will drop the aggro of B


No, because the tower AI targets heroes ATTACKING heroes first and foremost. Attacking a friendly hero will draw aggro onto you, which is why you see professional players a-click their teammates if they're low and being attacked by a tower.

It goes like this:

Heroes attacking heroes > Creeps attacking heroes > Units hitting the tower > Units in range

The only way to get aggro off of yourself to another target is by attacking a creep. Attacking another hero will make the tower hit you.



EDIT: Just tested it, I had it backwards. If you're being attacked, and a-click a friendly hero it makes the tower re-evaluate its' target and makes it attack the nearest friendly unit to it, whether it be a creep or allied hero.

If there's an enemy hero nearby, you can a-click them to take the aggro off of your ally, to you.


that's not how it should work, does work in dota 1, and from memory does work in dota 2. If you attack a hero in dota 1, it bumps you up the aggro queue, both from towers and units - hence you can draw aggro as axe by doing an attack command on any hero on the map.

If that's how it works in dota 2 it is the exact opposite to dota 1, and should be reported as a bug. Attacking heroes (allied or enemy) should gain aggro in a 500 aoe.


i'm not sure how it used to be in wc3 dota since i haven't played for years. but afaik it always mattered if you attacked an enemy or a teammate and i never noticed getting aggroed while attacking a friendly hero.

but this is how it works in dota2:
you only get to the aggro top when attacking an enemy hero, you get the reverse effect when attacking a friendly hero and hence you lose aggro.


anonymitylol
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada4477 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 13:42:42
August 06 2012 13:36 GMT
#15977
On August 06 2012 22:26 lozarian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 22:00 anonymitylol wrote:
On August 06 2012 21:53 Erasme wrote:
On August 06 2012 21:33 anonymitylol wrote:
On August 06 2012 21:08 Qbek wrote:
On August 06 2012 20:29 Oktyabr wrote:
On August 06 2012 19:45 Qbek wrote:
If an ally is running from a tower and no creeps are in range, if you also are in range of the tower a click your ally and the tower will attack you instead. It has hardcoded to attack anybody who attacked the hero above anything else and this tricks it's ai. Can save your allies life quite often when diving together


I think it's the reverse. If A and B are running from the tower and A is getting hit by the tower, A must a+click B to make the tower hit B instead.

Works both ways I think


No, I'm 90% sure it's only the first way. If A a+clicks B, the tower will attack A.

i'm 100% sure if B a clicks A, tower will drop the aggro of B


No, because the tower AI targets heroes ATTACKING heroes first and foremost. Attacking a friendly hero will draw aggro onto you, which is why you see professional players a-click their teammates if they're low and being attacked by a tower.

It goes like this:

Heroes attacking heroes > Creeps attacking heroes > Units hitting the tower > Units in range

The only way to get aggro off of yourself to another target is by attacking a creep. Attacking another hero will make the tower hit you.



EDIT: Just tested it, I had it backwards. If you're being attacked, and a-click a friendly hero it makes the tower re-evaluate its' target and makes it attack the nearest friendly unit to it, whether it be a creep or allied hero.

If there's an enemy hero nearby, you can a-click them to take the aggro off of your ally, to you.


that's not how it should work, does work in dota 1, and from memory does work in dota 2. If you attack a hero in dota 1, it bumps you up the aggro queue, both from towers and units - hence you can draw aggro as axe by doing an attack command on any hero on the map.

If that's how it works in dota 2 it is the exact opposite to dota 1, and should be reported as a bug. Attacking heroes (allied or enemy) should gain aggro in a 500 aoe.


That's what I thought and I remember doing that in Dota 2 and having it work. After I read their comments here I decided to test it, and it removes aggro from you as if you're attacking a friendly creep when you attack a friendly hero.

:shrug:
gold on my wrist phone in my pocket
Unleashing
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark14978 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 13:50:41
August 06 2012 13:42 GMT
#15978
On August 06 2012 22:34 Dead9 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 21:40 Unleashing wrote:
On August 06 2012 09:42 AndyJay wrote:
Bloodseeker's strength is dominating the shit out of 1v1 mid laning. I'm not saying he can do this in pro games but at least at my MMR ( mid lvl pub games) a bs can last hit everything vs a low dmg solo ranged mid (and still do well and often win lane vs melee's as well) and get a huge gold/exp advantage which snowballs his ganking/carrying ability. So yes Night stalker is obviously a better ganker, but a NS can't regen form half hp back to full off one creep wave either. That may or may not be useful, and as a useful hero NS might be better overall, but they are not simply the same but NS better.

Winning your lane is pointless if you still aren't very useful to your team.
Honestly, i don't have any problem against BS mid, ever. Not even with heroes like rhasta.

Pub seeker works if your whole team can snowball out of control and have a huge advantage.
But the later the game goes against a real carry he'll just not really be worth it.

that's cus he's not a hard carry and shouldn't be played as one lol
you could say the same thing about night stalker or any other hero that peaks midgame

I didnt' say he was a hard carry at all, but blood seeker's mid-game isn't even that good, which was my point. Sure he can do decent in lane due to sustain, but outside of that he's really not a good hero.

For example,
he needs the enemy to be low hp to be able to chase.
he needs his ult to get kills as a ganker
Night stalker does everything he does better, as already stated.
And lategame NS is still pretty useful with aghanim and so on.
From the Ghastly Eyrie I can see to the ends of the world, and from this vantage point I declare with utter certainty that this one is in the bag!
Dead9
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States4725 Posts
August 06 2012 13:53 GMT
#15979
On August 06 2012 22:42 Unleashing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 22:34 Dead9 wrote:
On August 06 2012 21:40 Unleashing wrote:
On August 06 2012 09:42 AndyJay wrote:
Bloodseeker's strength is dominating the shit out of 1v1 mid laning. I'm not saying he can do this in pro games but at least at my MMR ( mid lvl pub games) a bs can last hit everything vs a low dmg solo ranged mid (and still do well and often win lane vs melee's as well) and get a huge gold/exp advantage which snowballs his ganking/carrying ability. So yes Night stalker is obviously a better ganker, but a NS can't regen form half hp back to full off one creep wave either. That may or may not be useful, and as a useful hero NS might be better overall, but they are not simply the same but NS better.

Winning your lane is pointless if you still aren't very useful to your team.
Honestly, i don't have any problem against BS mid, ever. Not even with heroes like rhasta.

Pub seeker works if your whole team can snowball out of control and have a huge advantage.
But the later the game goes against a real carry he'll just not really be worth it.

that's cus he's not a hard carry and shouldn't be played as one lol
you could say the same thing about night stalker or any other hero that peaks midgame

I didnt' say he was a hard carry at all, but blood seeker's mid-game isn't even that good, which was my point. Sure he can do decent in lane due to sustain, but outside of that he's really not a good hero.

For example,
he needs the enemy to be low hp to be able to chase.
he eneds his ult to get kills as a ganker

Night stalker does everything he does better, as already stated.
And lategame NS is still pretty useful with aghanim and so on.

he's stronger in lane than ns, his ulti is really good all game long, and a lot of the time silence can do some work
his midgame is pretty good, in particular he's one of the best countergankers in the game once he gets his ult
bs certainly isn't amazing but he's not that bad in pubs
Unleashing
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark14978 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 13:57:16
August 06 2012 13:56 GMT
#15980
On August 06 2012 22:53 Dead9 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 22:42 Unleashing wrote:
On August 06 2012 22:34 Dead9 wrote:
On August 06 2012 21:40 Unleashing wrote:
On August 06 2012 09:42 AndyJay wrote:
Bloodseeker's strength is dominating the shit out of 1v1 mid laning. I'm not saying he can do this in pro games but at least at my MMR ( mid lvl pub games) a bs can last hit everything vs a low dmg solo ranged mid (and still do well and often win lane vs melee's as well) and get a huge gold/exp advantage which snowballs his ganking/carrying ability. So yes Night stalker is obviously a better ganker, but a NS can't regen form half hp back to full off one creep wave either. That may or may not be useful, and as a useful hero NS might be better overall, but they are not simply the same but NS better.

Winning your lane is pointless if you still aren't very useful to your team.
Honestly, i don't have any problem against BS mid, ever. Not even with heroes like rhasta.

Pub seeker works if your whole team can snowball out of control and have a huge advantage.
But the later the game goes against a real carry he'll just not really be worth it.

that's cus he's not a hard carry and shouldn't be played as one lol
you could say the same thing about night stalker or any other hero that peaks midgame

I didnt' say he was a hard carry at all, but blood seeker's mid-game isn't even that good, which was my point. Sure he can do decent in lane due to sustain, but outside of that he's really not a good hero.

For example,
he needs the enemy to be low hp to be able to chase.
he eneds his ult to get kills as a ganker

Night stalker does everything he does better, as already stated.
And lategame NS is still pretty useful with aghanim and so on.

he's stronger in lane than ns, his ulti is really good all game long, and a lot of the time silence can do some work
his midgame is pretty good, in particular he's one of the best countergankers in the game once he gets his ult
bs certainly isn't amazing but he's not that bad in pubs


Him being stronger in lane depends entirely on his enemy.
And no his ulti has no real effect the second the enemies he need to target gets items that prevent him from touching them, like a bkb. And his silence is a double edged sword.
And i never said he was bad in pubs, i just said he's not a very good hero.
A lot of not so good heroes do fantastically in pubs.

I mean a night stalker with aghanim is 10 times more useful than a blood seeker in a game with good players.
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