EPTit was a fun game for a while but ruined by all this bullshit
General Discussion - Page 6158
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
it was a fun game for a while but ruined by all this bullshit | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 15 2014 02:27 Comeh wrote: Its hard to make the game interesting when it was designed to be uninteresting. RTS's are dumb like that. No one wants to lose quickly, but everyone complains when the game is "dull". The worst of SC2 is the win condition is "kill your opponent", while dota(and other mobas) the fighting only speeds up the process one side winning the game. It means you are rewarded for doing fun things, like fighting, rather than punished for it with a quick loss. But don't tell anyone in the RTS community that. They want the longest, most epic games, even if they are boring as fuck. On August 15 2014 02:30 teddyoojo wrote: the only thing sc2 ever was is a bubble of constructed and forced overprofessional esports it was a fun game for a while but ruined by all this bullshit I am with you on that one. They were so desperate to be accepted, they forgot their core audience. Also, everyone listening to whiney pros. A pro whines about balance in dota and everyone laughs at them. One of them whines in SC2 and the issue is taken straight to Blizzard to point out the "crime" and to have it corrected. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On August 15 2014 01:44 goody153 wrote: this is really refreshing .. rtz not listening to his uhm standard rtz music but rather this ok music lel | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On August 15 2014 02:31 Plansix wrote: RTS's are dumb like that. No one wants to lose quickly, but everyone complains when the game is "dull". The worst of SC2 is the win condition is "kill your opponent", while dota(and other mobas) the fighting only speeds up the process one side winning the game. It means you are rewarded for doing fun things, like fighting, rather than punished for it with a quick loss. But don't tell anyone in the RTS community that. They want the longest, most epic games, even if they are boring as fuck. I am with you on that one. They were so desperate to be accepted, they forgot their core audience. Also, everyone listening to whiney pros. A pro whines about balance in dota and everyone laughs at them. One of them whines in SC2 and the issue is taken straight to Blizzard to point out the "crime" and to have it corrected. BW managed it fine. SC2 is just pretty badly designed, particularly unit-wise. ALSO FINALLY SKIP ROPE UP ON RTZ STREAM HERE WE GO BOYS | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
In Starcraft two equally bad players are forced to choose between fighting and having stuff to fight with. If you want to win games and are bad, it's much easier and better to not fight, because fighting and doing things at the same time are hard. That's why everyone loses their shit when Terran drop play is in vogue, because it's hard and exciting and Maru can drop in three bases, attack a fourth and macro all at the same time, and you can't. Edit: maybe it's better to say that if you want to win games and are bad, in SC2 the best response is to either commit to 6-pooling every game or to being Cruncher. Both styles work and both are equally boring. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
And BW did great in a vacuum. Its easy to be number 1 with state support and when you are the only one trying. | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
Also sc2 was doomed to fail when they didnt have chat channels from the get go, e sports without socialiing, right | ||
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hootsushi
Germany3468 Posts
On August 15 2014 02:33 Comeh wrote: BW managed it fine. SC2 is just pretty badly designed, particularly unit-wise. ALSO FINALLY SKIP ROPE UP ON RTZ STREAM HERE WE GO BOYS Did you seriously expect a RTZ stream without Skip Rope? | ||
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Seriously, what was the last game to have automated tournaments, SF4? | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
On August 15 2014 02:43 Plansix wrote: Exactly. The more exciting stuff that happens in SC2, the harder it is to play. I loved playing the game, but it got stale after a while and the future patches just made the game more stale. And every time someone tries to do something new and exciting, or make a different type of map, players lose their shit. And BW did great in a vacuum. Its easy to be number 1 with state support and when you are the only one trying. Also it did great in Korea. I am yet to be convinced that the Brood War scene outside South Korea was that much more impressive than the CS, WC3 or Dota 1 scenes, or the fighting game or Smash communities. Not to belittle foreign BW, but outside the few who moved permanently or semi-permanently to Korea, the players generally had roughly the same careers as their peers in other games. Practice a lot, play online, build your life around one or two prestigious tournaments. It's just that for CS and BW the tournament was WCG, for Dota it was ESWC and MYM PriDe and for the fighters it was EVO. | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Mecha King Ghidorah
United States595 Posts
On August 15 2014 02:47 Iplaythings wrote: Also sc2 was doomed to fail when they didnt have chat channels from the get go, e sports without socialiing, right I never got this, the DOTA 2 chat generally devolves into multiple people randomly cussing. I have seen a constructive conversation happen only once in the US East chat. | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
On August 15 2014 02:55 Plansix wrote: Oh man, chat channels are key, I use them so much in Dota. They are never filled with people spamming to buy items and kids spamming useless shit. Same with guilds and other social features. And automated tournaments, we used that a lot in games.... Seriously, what was the last game to have automated tournaments, SF4? I dunno. I use chat channels more or less frequently. And it's not like it's any effort to do so. While I'm searching for a game, are there people saying interesting things in either of the TL channels? Yes? Cool, I'll jump in. And the automated tournaments in WC3 were dope. They should have been in SC2. It's much easier to do that sort of thing in a 1v1 game. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On August 15 2014 03:02 LuckoftheIrish wrote: Also it did great in Korea. I am yet to be convinced that the Brood War scene outside South Korea was that much more impressive than the CS, WC3 or Dota 1 scenes, or the fighting game or Smash communities. Not to belittle foreign BW, but outside the few who moved permanently or semi-permanently to Korea, the players generally had roughly the same careers as their peers in other games. Practice a lot, play online, build your life around one or two prestigious tournaments. It's just that for CS and BW the tournament was WCG, for Dota it was ESWC and MYM PriDe and for the fighters it was EVO. Foreigners in BW wasn't...really a thing. They probably could take maybe...1 or 2 games out of the S-Class players in a BO 100. It was really one of the beauties of BW | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
On August 15 2014 03:06 Mecha King Ghidorah wrote: I never got this, the DOTA 2 chat generally devolves into multiple people randomly cussing. I have seen a constructive conversation happen only once in the US East chat. BW chat channels were awesome with clans and stuff, dota 2 atleast has them for your group | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
Too bad the quality of the gulag has fallen imho, it's still decent but it just used to be better with less shitposting, but i guess as the gulag grew so did the number of shitposters. | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On August 15 2014 03:16 LuckoftheIrish wrote: I'm not talking about their skill or anything, though. Just saying that the scene outside of South Korea was the same, give or take, as four or five others in terms of its infrastructure and support. Once money starts supporting games, skill level tends to rise. Dota 1 was the one of those games that had serious money and centralization behind it, and the scene in China rivaled the Korean Brood War scene both in terms of fandom and dominance over westerners. Worth noting that Chinese pros really couldn't shake a stick at the Korean pros for the majority of the time. | ||
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