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General Discussion - Page 6158

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
teddyoojo
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany22369 Posts
August 14 2014 17:30 GMT
#123141
the only thing sc2 ever was is a bubble of constructed and forced overprofessional esports
it was a fun game for a while but ruined by all this bullshit
Esports historian since 2000. Creator of 'The Universe' and 'The best scrambled Eggs 2013'. Host of 'Star Wars Marathon 2015'. Thinker of 'teddyoojo's Thoughts'. Earths and Moons leading CS:GO expert. Lord of the Rings.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-14 17:33:18
August 14 2014 17:31 GMT
#123142
On August 15 2014 02:27 Comeh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2014 01:59 Plansix wrote:
On August 15 2014 01:57 Qbek wrote:
On August 15 2014 01:55 Veles wrote:
are we daedgame yet

The currently reigning daedgem needs to die first

Its current fan base will take care of that soon enough by demanding it never be interesting ever again.

Its hard to make the game interesting when it was designed to be uninteresting.

RTS's are dumb like that. No one wants to lose quickly, but everyone complains when the game is "dull". The worst of SC2 is the win condition is "kill your opponent", while dota(and other mobas) the fighting only speeds up the process one side winning the game. It means you are rewarded for doing fun things, like fighting, rather than punished for it with a quick loss.

But don't tell anyone in the RTS community that. They want the longest, most epic games, even if they are boring as fuck.

On August 15 2014 02:30 teddyoojo wrote:
the only thing sc2 ever was is a bubble of constructed and forced overprofessional esports
it was a fun game for a while but ruined by all this bullshit


I am with you on that one. They were so desperate to be accepted, they forgot their core audience. Also, everyone listening to whiney pros. A pro whines about balance in dota and everyone laughs at them. One of them whines in SC2 and the issue is taken straight to Blizzard to point out the "crime" and to have it corrected.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
August 14 2014 17:32 GMT
#123143
On August 15 2014 01:44 goody153 wrote:
this is really refreshing .. rtz not listening to his uhm standard rtz music but rather this ok music

lel
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
August 14 2014 17:33 GMT
#123144
On August 15 2014 02:31 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2014 02:27 Comeh wrote:
On August 15 2014 01:59 Plansix wrote:
On August 15 2014 01:57 Qbek wrote:
On August 15 2014 01:55 Veles wrote:
are we daedgame yet

The currently reigning daedgem needs to die first

Its current fan base will take care of that soon enough by demanding it never be interesting ever again.

Its hard to make the game interesting when it was designed to be uninteresting.

RTS's are dumb like that. No one wants to lose quickly, but everyone complains when the game is "dull". The worst of SC2 is the win condition is "kill your opponent", while dota(and other mobas) the fighting only speeds up the process one side winning the game. It means you are rewarded for doing fun things, like fighting, rather than punished for it with a quick loss.

But don't tell anyone in the RTS community that. They want the longest, most epic games, even if they are boring as fuck.

Show nested quote +
On August 15 2014 02:30 teddyoojo wrote:
the only thing sc2 ever was is a bubble of constructed and forced overprofessional esports
it was a fun game for a while but ruined by all this bullshit


I am with you on that one. They were so desperate to be accepted, they forgot their core audience. Also, everyone listening to whiney pros. A pro whines about balance in dota and everyone laughs at them. One of them whines in SC2 and the issue is taken straight to Blizzard to point out the "crime" and to have it corrected.

BW managed it fine.

SC2 is just pretty badly designed, particularly unit-wise.

ALSO FINALLY SKIP ROPE UP ON RTZ STREAM HERE WE GO BOYS
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
LuckoftheIrish
Profile Joined November 2011
United States4791 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-14 17:42:19
August 14 2014 17:40 GMT
#123145
It's also true that the more fighting there is in Starcraft the harder the game is to play. In CS, two equally bad teams can buy P90s and no armor and just throw bullets around until one team is dead. In Dota two equally bad teams can pick four carries and one overworked support and derp and feed around the map until the ancient falls.

In Starcraft two equally bad players are forced to choose between fighting and having stuff to fight with. If you want to win games and are bad, it's much easier and better to not fight, because fighting and doing things at the same time are hard. That's why everyone loses their shit when Terran drop play is in vogue, because it's hard and exciting and Maru can drop in three bases, attack a fourth and macro all at the same time, and you can't.

Edit: maybe it's better to say that if you want to win games and are bad, in SC2 the best response is to either commit to 6-pooling every game or to being Cruncher. Both styles work and both are equally boring.
On Twitter @GosuGamers_LotI | Grubby has a huge head!
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 14 2014 17:43 GMT
#123146
Exactly. The more exciting stuff that happens in SC2, the harder it is to play. I loved playing the game, but it got stale after a while and the future patches just made the game more stale. And every time someone tries to do something new and exciting, or make a different type of map, players lose their shit.

And BW did great in a vacuum. Its easy to be number 1 with state support and when you are the only one trying.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-14 17:48:53
August 14 2014 17:47 GMT
#123147
Guys I can't find that stupid skip rope song, can anyone halp me? nvm google works better than 3 weeks ago

Also sc2 was doomed to fail when they didnt have chat channels from the get go, e sports without socialiing, right
In the woods, there lurks..
hootsushi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany3468 Posts
August 14 2014 17:51 GMT
#123148
On August 15 2014 02:33 Comeh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2014 02:31 Plansix wrote:
On August 15 2014 02:27 Comeh wrote:
On August 15 2014 01:59 Plansix wrote:
On August 15 2014 01:57 Qbek wrote:
On August 15 2014 01:55 Veles wrote:
are we daedgame yet

The currently reigning daedgem needs to die first

Its current fan base will take care of that soon enough by demanding it never be interesting ever again.

Its hard to make the game interesting when it was designed to be uninteresting.

RTS's are dumb like that. No one wants to lose quickly, but everyone complains when the game is "dull". The worst of SC2 is the win condition is "kill your opponent", while dota(and other mobas) the fighting only speeds up the process one side winning the game. It means you are rewarded for doing fun things, like fighting, rather than punished for it with a quick loss.

But don't tell anyone in the RTS community that. They want the longest, most epic games, even if they are boring as fuck.

On August 15 2014 02:30 teddyoojo wrote:
the only thing sc2 ever was is a bubble of constructed and forced overprofessional esports
it was a fun game for a while but ruined by all this bullshit


I am with you on that one. They were so desperate to be accepted, they forgot their core audience. Also, everyone listening to whiney pros. A pro whines about balance in dota and everyone laughs at them. One of them whines in SC2 and the issue is taken straight to Blizzard to point out the "crime" and to have it corrected.

BW managed it fine.

SC2 is just pretty badly designed, particularly unit-wise.

ALSO FINALLY SKIP ROPE UP ON RTZ STREAM HERE WE GO BOYS


Did you seriously expect a RTZ stream without Skip Rope?
Gosi
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Sweden9072 Posts
August 14 2014 17:54 GMT
#123149
do you really want chat channels?
[13:40] <Qbek> gosi i dreanmt about you
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-14 17:56:03
August 14 2014 17:55 GMT
#123150
Oh man, chat channels are key, I use them so much in Dota. They are never filled with people spamming to buy items and kids spamming useless shit. Same with guilds and other social features. And automated tournaments, we used that a lot in games....

Seriously, what was the last game to have automated tournaments, SF4?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
LuckoftheIrish
Profile Joined November 2011
United States4791 Posts
August 14 2014 18:02 GMT
#123151
On August 15 2014 02:43 Plansix wrote:
Exactly. The more exciting stuff that happens in SC2, the harder it is to play. I loved playing the game, but it got stale after a while and the future patches just made the game more stale. And every time someone tries to do something new and exciting, or make a different type of map, players lose their shit.

And BW did great in a vacuum. Its easy to be number 1 with state support and when you are the only one trying.


Also it did great in Korea. I am yet to be convinced that the Brood War scene outside South Korea was that much more impressive than the CS, WC3 or Dota 1 scenes, or the fighting game or Smash communities. Not to belittle foreign BW, but outside the few who moved permanently or semi-permanently to Korea, the players generally had roughly the same careers as their peers in other games. Practice a lot, play online, build your life around one or two prestigious tournaments. It's just that for CS and BW the tournament was WCG, for Dota it was ESWC and MYM PriDe and for the fighters it was EVO.
On Twitter @GosuGamers_LotI | Grubby has a huge head!
cecek
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Czech Republic18921 Posts
August 14 2014 18:03 GMT
#123152
/vg/ is pretty good. There's almost always a conversation going and for some weird reason I've never seen people and bots spamming trade offers there. There are also us and eu inhouses going on quite often, but I never played in one, no idea how good they are.
super gg
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
August 14 2014 18:05 GMT
#123153
4chan inhouses seemed exceedingly low-tier in my limited experience.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Mecha King Ghidorah
Profile Joined April 2014
United States595 Posts
August 14 2014 18:06 GMT
#123154
On August 15 2014 02:47 Iplaythings wrote:
Guys I can't find that stupid skip rope song, can anyone halp me? nvm google works better than 3 weeks ago

Also sc2 was doomed to fail when they didnt have chat channels from the get go, e sports without socialiing, right


I never got this, the DOTA 2 chat generally devolves into multiple people randomly cussing. I have seen a constructive conversation happen only once in the US East chat.
☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭
LuckoftheIrish
Profile Joined November 2011
United States4791 Posts
August 14 2014 18:06 GMT
#123155
On August 15 2014 02:55 Plansix wrote:
Oh man, chat channels are key, I use them so much in Dota. They are never filled with people spamming to buy items and kids spamming useless shit. Same with guilds and other social features. And automated tournaments, we used that a lot in games....

Seriously, what was the last game to have automated tournaments, SF4?


I dunno. I use chat channels more or less frequently. And it's not like it's any effort to do so. While I'm searching for a game, are there people saying interesting things in either of the TL channels? Yes? Cool, I'll jump in.

And the automated tournaments in WC3 were dope. They should have been in SC2. It's much easier to do that sort of thing in a 1v1 game.
On Twitter @GosuGamers_LotI | Grubby has a huge head!
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
August 14 2014 18:06 GMT
#123156
On August 15 2014 03:02 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2014 02:43 Plansix wrote:
Exactly. The more exciting stuff that happens in SC2, the harder it is to play. I loved playing the game, but it got stale after a while and the future patches just made the game more stale. And every time someone tries to do something new and exciting, or make a different type of map, players lose their shit.

And BW did great in a vacuum. Its easy to be number 1 with state support and when you are the only one trying.


Also it did great in Korea. I am yet to be convinced that the Brood War scene outside South Korea was that much more impressive than the CS, WC3 or Dota 1 scenes, or the fighting game or Smash communities. Not to belittle foreign BW, but outside the few who moved permanently or semi-permanently to Korea, the players generally had roughly the same careers as their peers in other games. Practice a lot, play online, build your life around one or two prestigious tournaments. It's just that for CS and BW the tournament was WCG, for Dota it was ESWC and MYM PriDe and for the fighters it was EVO.

Foreigners in BW wasn't...really a thing. They probably could take maybe...1 or 2 games out of the S-Class players in a BO 100.

It was really one of the beauties of BW
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
August 14 2014 18:13 GMT
#123157
On August 15 2014 03:06 Mecha King Ghidorah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2014 02:47 Iplaythings wrote:
Guys I can't find that stupid skip rope song, can anyone halp me? nvm google works better than 3 weeks ago

Also sc2 was doomed to fail when they didnt have chat channels from the get go, e sports without socialiing, right


I never got this, the DOTA 2 chat generally devolves into multiple people randomly cussing. I have seen a constructive conversation happen only once in the US East chat.

BW chat channels were awesome with clans and stuff, dota 2 atleast has them for your group
In the woods, there lurks..
Unleashing
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark14978 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-14 18:16:40
August 14 2014 18:16 GMT
#123158
/vg/ masters finally made it big and got their own ticket. They're even sponsored by a porn site!

Too bad the quality of the gulag has fallen imho, it's still decent but it just used to be better with less shitposting, but i guess as the gulag grew so did the number of shitposters.
From the Ghastly Eyrie I can see to the ends of the world, and from this vantage point I declare with utter certainty that this one is in the bag!
LuckoftheIrish
Profile Joined November 2011
United States4791 Posts
August 14 2014 18:16 GMT
#123159
I'm not talking about their skill or anything, though. Just saying that the scene outside of South Korea was the same, give or take, as four or five others in terms of its infrastructure and support. Once money starts supporting games, skill level tends to rise. Dota 1 was the one of those games that had serious money and centralization behind it, and the scene in China rivaled the Korean Brood War scene both in terms of fandom and dominance over westerners.
On Twitter @GosuGamers_LotI | Grubby has a huge head!
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
August 14 2014 18:20 GMT
#123160
On August 15 2014 03:16 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
I'm not talking about their skill or anything, though. Just saying that the scene outside of South Korea was the same, give or take, as four or five others in terms of its infrastructure and support. Once money starts supporting games, skill level tends to rise. Dota 1 was the one of those games that had serious money and centralization behind it, and the scene in China rivaled the Korean Brood War scene both in terms of fandom and dominance over westerners.

Worth noting that Chinese pros really couldn't shake a stick at the Korean pros for the majority of the time.
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
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