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On July 11 2014 20:47 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2014 20:42 Laserist wrote:On July 11 2014 20:37 Torte de Lini wrote:
I'm doing mid LC rightn ow. 5/1 without breaking a sweat. Max Q is incredible, but to do jungling LC; you have to ignore Q no? Maxing heals brings sustainability but also dependency on your teammates is increased. by the time blink comes, you should be level 7-9, and it is possible to max q with 1-2 point in passive. I'd go max Q. Also you are a little more than useless with careful mana management. So what's the build order? I have W E E W E R E W W Q R Q Q Q I'll test yours because it seems to make more sense but the more we max W, the more mana it costs and starting with quelling blade, stout shield, tangos into boots into blink sounds like you wont ever have the mana
Jungle LC's solo-kill threat is going to be lower, of course, but that would be the case no matter what you build because she's not in a solo lane. Jungle blink LC is there to provide lockdown for teammates to capitalize on, which then hopefully snowballs her into a solo threat. It's team dependent, but that in itself doesn't make it bad.
Boots blink does have the mana to Q>W>blink>R. That's pretty much it, but it's really all she needs. With tread swapping it's more manageable. It's pretty much a batrider; farm blink, go home, tp to a lane, create a kill. Repeat until you can do it without help.
Really, though, I think the problem with jungle LC is just that her jungle is ass since they changed the MoC mechanic. A minute or two slower on the blink timing is like half of her "kill things and snowball" window gone already.
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On July 11 2014 20:47 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2014 20:42 Laserist wrote:On July 11 2014 20:37 Torte de Lini wrote:
I'm doing mid LC rightn ow. 5/1 without breaking a sweat. Max Q is incredible, but to do jungling LC; you have to ignore Q no? Maxing heals brings sustainability but also dependency on your teammates is increased. by the time blink comes, you should be level 7-9, and it is possible to max q with 1-2 point in passive. I'd go max Q. Also you are a little more than useless with careful mana management. So what's the build order? I have W E E W E R E W W Q R Q Q Q I'll test yours because it seems to make more sense but the more we max W, the more mana it costs and starting with quelling blade, stout shield, tangos into boots into blink sounds like you wont ever have the mana
Well , there is no go to standard build i think. It depends on the pressure on your easy/mid lanes. I'd prefer 2 minute late blink other than losing the lanes.
Since the recent passive change, it doesn't worth to max it , just keep it level 1. I generally skill passive first because I do choke point jungle and you get level 2 without hurt that much with the help of tangos.
I 'd go either
E W Q Q Q R Q W W
or
E W Q Q Q R W W
Having a high point in passive doesn't worth since you isolate someone and rarely many creeps hit you.Having a high Q or W brings more damage especially if you manage to hit 2 heores and 3+ creeps.
Maxing passive early is too "passive" and gives immense room to the other team. Since it gives very little chance increase and lifesteal = nearly no damage.
Another point is, if you are against a solo hardlaner, maxing W would be more preferable.
I'd solve the mana problem with either buy a bottle(it works really, also recovers mana after duels) or with an early mantle(to treads later on).
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On July 11 2014 21:48 Laserist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2014 20:47 Torte de Lini wrote:On July 11 2014 20:42 Laserist wrote:On July 11 2014 20:37 Torte de Lini wrote:
I'm doing mid LC rightn ow. 5/1 without breaking a sweat. Max Q is incredible, but to do jungling LC; you have to ignore Q no? Maxing heals brings sustainability but also dependency on your teammates is increased. by the time blink comes, you should be level 7-9, and it is possible to max q with 1-2 point in passive. I'd go max Q. Also you are a little more than useless with careful mana management. So what's the build order? I have W E E W E R E W W Q R Q Q Q I'll test yours because it seems to make more sense but the more we max W, the more mana it costs and starting with quelling blade, stout shield, tangos into boots into blink sounds like you wont ever have the mana Well , there is no go to standard build i think. It depends on the pressure on your easy/mid lanes. I'd prefer 2 minute late blink other than losing the lanes. Since the recent passive change, it doesn't worth to max it , just keep it level 1. I generally skill passive first because I do choke point jungle and you get level 2 without hurt that much with the help of tangos. I 'd go either E W Q Q Q R Q W W or E W Q Q Q R W W Having a high point in passive doesn't worth since you isolate someone and rarely many creeps hit you.Having a high Q or W brings more damage especially if you manage to hit 2 heores and 3+ creeps. Maxing passive early is too "passive" and gives immense room to the other team. Since it gives very little chance increase and lifesteal = nearly no damage. Another point is, if you are against a solo hardlaner, maxing W would be more preferable. I'd solve the mana problem with either buy a bottle(it works really, also recovers mana after duels) or with an early mantle(to treads later on).
I'm going to try this now, but so little in W or E is a bit scary even if you're choke-point jungling
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You can blend W and Q depending on your jungling efficiency & opponent pressure. I advocate not to max E early. As I said, you'll have blink at least level 8-9 which gives you enough points to find the best mix.
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Just don't jungle LC lol. It's not worth it. The CD on her nuke is too long to use it to clear stacks or w/e and her E simply doesn't provide enough lifesteal or damage to make it fast. It's bloodseeker-tier jungling.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On July 11 2014 23:37 Sn0_Man wrote:
Just don't jungle LC lol. It's not worth it. The CD on her nuke is too long to use it to clear stacks or w/e and her E simply doesn't provide enough lifesteal or damage to make it fast. It's bloodseeker-tier jungling.
Have you ever even seen someone jungle LC? Because I don't think you have. You don't use the nuke while jungling and the lifesteal + heal is comfortably enough to jungle with just 1 tango for regen. She jungle as fast as a batrider, you get an 8 minute blink + boots if uninterrupted. That's hardly bloodseeker level.
And no, you can't get away with 1 heal and 1 passive in the jungle, unless you want to ferry yourself a ton of regen. The theorycrafting is strong here tonight, jesus.
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On July 11 2014 23:45 cecek wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2014 23:37 Sn0_Man wrote:
Just don't jungle LC lol. It's not worth it. The CD on her nuke is too long to use it to clear stacks or w/e and her E simply doesn't provide enough lifesteal or damage to make it fast. It's bloodseeker-tier jungling. Have you ever even seen someone jungle LC? Because I don't think you have. You don't use the nuke while jungling and the lifesteal + heal is comfortably enough to jungle with just 1 tango for regen. She jungle as fast as a batrider, you get an 8 minute blink + boots if uninterrupted. That's hardly bloodseeker level. And no, you can't get away with 1 heal and 1 passive in the jungle, unless you want to ferry yourself a ton of regen. The theorycrafting is strong here tonight, jesus.
So what's the build? I'm about to queue and try it.
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I meant that you can't use nuke, so u don't. I'm aware of how you'd build to jungle the fastest and its simply slow.
Have you tried it since they changed MoC for the 12th time? It's a lot slower than in WC3.
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Maxing E and W is pretty slow, but not unbearable. It's just after that it becomes incredibly difficult to get anywhere unless your team is 100% coordinated and focuses only on your duels
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On July 11 2014 23:45 cecek wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2014 23:37 Sn0_Man wrote:
Just don't jungle LC lol. It's not worth it. The CD on her nuke is too long to use it to clear stacks or w/e and her E simply doesn't provide enough lifesteal or damage to make it fast. It's bloodseeker-tier jungling. Have you ever even seen someone jungle LC? Because I don't think you have. You don't use the nuke while jungling and the lifesteal + heal is comfortably enough to jungle with just 1 tango for regen. She jungle as fast as a batrider, you get an 8 minute blink + boots if uninterrupted. That's hardly bloodseeker level. And no, you can't get away with 1 heal and 1 passive in the jungle, unless you want to ferry yourself a ton of regen. The theorycrafting is strong here tonight, jesus.
Theorycraft? Ok, it depends on your build. you can survive 0-1-1 or 0-2-1 easily if you avoid hard camps and go medium camp with choke point. You can ferry at most another set of tangos(which is cheap and you need some levels for heal)
I believe giving many points to passive or heal doesn't let you to catch up the previous timing(before the passive change). Ulti + blink is rarely enough to grab a few duels before level 11.
Main problem is mana management not jungling imo.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
Passive, heal, heal, passive, passive, ult, max nuke. If you're lucky with creep camps, pull sometimes so that you don't have to tank all the damage, you can go for the gank immediately after getting the blink without going to base to heal. You might not be able to heal yourself before jumping in, but that shouldn't matter, because you need your allies to get the kill even with the heal, anyway.
@snoman I really don't understand your definition of 'slow jungling'. I guess anyone that isn't an enigma or a stacking wildwing Chen is slow to you.
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Most junglers are fucking slow yeah, rarely worth what they do to your other lanes.
But lots are way faster than LC (DS is pretty good for example) or actually do things from the jungle (Furion tps, ench ganks, w/e). dunno.
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I believe LC snowballs harder than anyone else.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
I guess you could survive on 1 passive 1 heal if you just choke point jungle small and medium camps, but it has to be sooo much slower than getting more points into it. Also, what do you do after you get to the blink? Do you try to fight 24/7 with your blink and nuke? You can't always find a gank and you don't really have the mana to fight that much. If you have more in passive and heal, you can just go in the jungle to farm fast (while not losing any hp) and you're a threat to the enemy because they can't see you.
Anyway, I think she's going to be used as a support in pro games. Press the Attack at level 1 is a 800 range, 16 second cooldown apothic shield. That is totally broken if you ask me. I guess as a support you skip the passive, take 1 level in press the attack and max nuke. The only problem is that it doesn't do much to zone the enemy in lane, so it probably won't work out.
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So how long until we have some form of addblock for dota2
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On July 12 2014 00:17 Yoshi- wrote:
So how long until we have some form of addblock for dota2
? I don't get it.
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I have no experience with laning LC but I can tell you, jungling her is fucking ass. Imo it's like Lifestealer, you only jungle him if your lineup is terrible and you NEED someone to jungle.
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Please tell me someone else saw this? What would you guys think if one of the top teams had this sponsor?
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Well, they know their target audience well.
All men.
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On July 12 2014 00:21 hootsushi wrote:
I have no experience with laning LC but I can tell you, jungling her is fucking ass. Imo it's like Lifestealer, you only jungle him if your lineup is terrible and you NEED someone to jungle.
LC Middle is pretty amazing
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EPT
