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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On July 02 2014 04:26 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 04:16 Logo wrote:On July 02 2014 02:31 Plansix wrote:
Yes, there should be a system where terrible captains can be rated. I've drafted and never got a complaint, but I have dealt with some true potatoes. The problem with that is you're far more likely to be rated by the guy who wanted you to first pick Riki or something stupid like that than the person who thought you did OK at drafting. Or put it another way people who are too bad at picking line-ups to even be a captain would be the ones evaluating your draft. I am sure valve would set the system to avoid that. One that focuses in good drafting and giving better rated captains the option earlier would be a better route. We may all have different opinions on what is a bad captian, but we all know a good one when we see one. Commend those guys first and get them I the captains chair more often and the bad captains will go away naturally.
im a pretty good captain
100% irc captains winrate
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On July 02 2014 05:14 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 04:53 andyrau wrote:
should I listen to chanman40 care about reddit or should I watch freedom destroy waffles/chocolate/stella artois-land queue another dota match. I don't think the panel on the show would be a fair unbias thing to listen to.
Gunna go out on a limb to say you are correct, but seeing all sides is how you get informed. Plus reddit admins are kinda bitches. Even the mods in the SC2 and Dota forums are kinda upset.
Except about the slasher ban. Fuck slasher.
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On July 02 2014 05:25 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 04:26 Plansix wrote:On July 02 2014 04:16 Logo wrote:On July 02 2014 02:31 Plansix wrote:
Yes, there should be a system where terrible captains can be rated. I've drafted and never got a complaint, but I have dealt with some true potatoes. The problem with that is you're far more likely to be rated by the guy who wanted you to first pick Riki or something stupid like that than the person who thought you did OK at drafting. Or put it another way people who are too bad at picking line-ups to even be a captain would be the ones evaluating your draft. I am sure valve would set the system to avoid that. One that focuses in good drafting and giving better rated captains the option earlier would be a better route. We may all have different opinions on what is a bad captian, but we all know a good one when we see one. Commend those guys first and get them I the captains chair more often and the bad captains will go away naturally. im a pretty good captain 100% irc captains winrate
He is no longer lord of the trench. Now he is their captian! Commander of the trench leagion! #seewhatididthere
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
wow, commoner to king, usurped then promoted to captain
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On July 02 2014 05:25 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 04:26 Plansix wrote:On July 02 2014 04:16 Logo wrote:On July 02 2014 02:31 Plansix wrote:
Yes, there should be a system where terrible captains can be rated. I've drafted and never got a complaint, but I have dealt with some true potatoes. The problem with that is you're far more likely to be rated by the guy who wanted you to first pick Riki or something stupid like that than the person who thought you did OK at drafting. Or put it another way people who are too bad at picking line-ups to even be a captain would be the ones evaluating your draft. I am sure valve would set the system to avoid that. One that focuses in good drafting and giving better rated captains the option earlier would be a better route. We may all have different opinions on what is a bad captian, but we all know a good one when we see one. Commend those guys first and get them I the captains chair more often and the bad captains will go away naturally. im a pretty good captain 100% irc captains winrate
Drafting in pubs require Skrillex level talent
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On July 02 2014 05:26 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 05:14 Torte de Lini wrote:On July 02 2014 04:53 andyrau wrote:
should I listen to chanman40 care about reddit or should I watch freedom destroy waffles/chocolate/stella artois-land queue another dota match. I don't think the panel on the show would be a fair unbias thing to listen to. Gunna go out on a limb to say you are correct, but seeing all sides is how you get informed. Plus reddit admins are kinda bitches. Even the mods in the SC2 and Dota forums are kinda upset. Except about the slasher ban. Fuck slasher.
Using their own show as a podium seems a bit redundant when you can do more with such a spotlight.
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On July 02 2014 05:25 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 04:26 Plansix wrote:On July 02 2014 04:16 Logo wrote:On July 02 2014 02:31 Plansix wrote:
Yes, there should be a system where terrible captains can be rated. I've drafted and never got a complaint, but I have dealt with some true potatoes. The problem with that is you're far more likely to be rated by the guy who wanted you to first pick Riki or something stupid like that than the person who thought you did OK at drafting. Or put it another way people who are too bad at picking line-ups to even be a captain would be the ones evaluating your draft. I am sure valve would set the system to avoid that. One that focuses in good drafting and giving better rated captains the option earlier would be a better route. We may all have different opinions on what is a bad captian, but we all know a good one when we see one. Commend those guys first and get them I the captains chair more often and the bad captains will go away naturally. im a pretty good captain 100% irc captains winrate
I did enjoy that one game
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On July 02 2014 05:30 Targe wrote:
wow, commoner to king, usurped then promoted to captain
You started from the bottom, now we here.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On July 02 2014 05:32 Qbek wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 05:25 Targe wrote:On July 02 2014 04:26 Plansix wrote:On July 02 2014 04:16 Logo wrote:On July 02 2014 02:31 Plansix wrote:
Yes, there should be a system where terrible captains can be rated. I've drafted and never got a complaint, but I have dealt with some true potatoes. The problem with that is you're far more likely to be rated by the guy who wanted you to first pick Riki or something stupid like that than the person who thought you did OK at drafting. Or put it another way people who are too bad at picking line-ups to even be a captain would be the ones evaluating your draft. I am sure valve would set the system to avoid that. One that focuses in good drafting and giving better rated captains the option earlier would be a better route. We may all have different opinions on what is a bad captian, but we all know a good one when we see one. Commend those guys first and get them I the captains chair more often and the bad captains will go away naturally. im a pretty good captain 100% irc captains winrate I did enjoy that one game
QBEK APPROVED
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On July 02 2014 05:31 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 05:26 Plansix wrote:On July 02 2014 05:14 Torte de Lini wrote:On July 02 2014 04:53 andyrau wrote:
should I listen to chanman40 care about reddit or should I watch freedom destroy waffles/chocolate/stella artois-land queue another dota match. I don't think the panel on the show would be a fair unbias thing to listen to. Gunna go out on a limb to say you are correct, but seeing all sides is how you get informed. Plus reddit admins are kinda bitches. Even the mods in the SC2 and Dota forums are kinda upset. Except about the slasher ban. Fuck slasher. Using their own show as a podium seems a bit redundant when you can do more with such a spotlight.
I generally try to promote myself at my job and tell my side of the story, rather than let others tell it for me. We are never going to get an objective opinion, so just listen to all sides and then make up your own mind.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
I think that Richard Lewis doesn't quite understand what he's talking about when he's referring to Reddit being a necessity because people don't visit home pages any more.
This view is assuming that if Reddit didn't exist, those viewers would be on your home page. Most people had very few pages they regularly visited on a daily basis in the past, and now there's significantly more competition in most areas of internet publishing as well, so the chance of them going to yours (if they go to any) is still quite slim.
I also think there are examples which really don't fall into this view. If we look at joinDota, they aren't super big on Reddit, they really don't post a lot of content on Reddit even. Yet every single post on joinDota has tons of comments. And that site was made 'after' reddit became the hub for most eSports communities.
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And Destiny + Richard are stuck in the eSports bubble. They seem to not understand that you can build a community around any site, even if those communities have huge activity on Reddit. It takes effort, and maybe even innovation. Posting on reddit is just the easy and lazy way to get advertising dollars.
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On July 02 2014 05:54 teapoted wrote:
I think that Richard Lewis doesn't quite understand what he's talking about when he's referring to Reddit being a necessity because people don't visit home pages any more.
This view is assuming that if Reddit didn't exist, those viewers would be on your home page. Most people had very few pages they regularly visited on a daily basis in the past, and now there's significantly more competition in most areas of internet publishing as well, so the chance of them going to yours (if they go to any) is still quite slim.
I also think there are examples which really don't fall into this view. If we look at joinDota, they aren't super big on Reddit, they really don't post a lot of content on Reddit even. Yet every single post on joinDota has tons of comments. And that site was made 'after' reddit became the hub for most eSports communities.
~
And Destiny + Richard are stuck in the eSports bubble. They seem to not understand that you can build a community around any site, even if those communities have huge activity on Reddit. It takes effort, and maybe even innovation. Posting on reddit is just the easy and lazy way to get advertising dollars.
It's a vicious circle.
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I agree, though the issue of malicious down voting is also real. There are people who just camp that SC2 reddit thread for the only reason to down vote things they don't like when they are posted so they don't appear on the first page. And there is a group that doesn't like chanman and down vote him every time.
I get the whole "yo son, that's the internet" but it is an issue because that small group of people are making choices for the larger community.
It's a discussion that needs to be had about small groups of people creating little fiefdoms in communities. Giant bomb is dealing with that right now with a very grumpy group of kind of sexist assholes claiming they are being repressed.
But the whole "yo it's the Internet" argument is weak sause now a days.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
I think if you oversimplify things, there are two kinds of esports websites. Ones that build their communities and ones that don't. If I use english Dota examples, the former would be joinDOTA, gosugamers, and teamliquid, and the latter 2p and ongamers for example. Then the ones that don't build their communities end up being reliant on reddit, twitter and advertisement. And the problem is that if you don't build a community, and all your ad views come from reddit, so the only way to get more viewers is to get more of your shit higher up on reddit. And this is how you get banned on reddit.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
It's just frustrating listening to these guys who have apparently no business sense saying that you 'need' to be that dependent on Reddit. Reddit can be helpful, but it isn't impossible to not be reliant on it.
You can't just 'do anything' and expect it to succeed. Maybe doing largely text articles isn't viable in eSports because the interest isn't there, it isn't valuable enough for people to regularly view it. That isn't a problem with Reddit, that's a problem with the business plan of trying to monetize something with such low potential.
We look at TL or joinDota. They survive because they grew a community, TL did before Reddit and Digg, joinDota did after. It's clearly not impossible.
Or if we look outside of eSports you have most of the gaming websites. Gaming is huge on Reddit, yet sites like gamespot or giantbomb are in no way "70%" reliant on Reddit.
And again, gamespot was made before Reddit and Digg, Giantbomb after. They had different models, because they had to.
These sites made by people who think Reddit is the only thing you can do currently wouldn't be successful if Reddit didn't exist either with such lack of creativity. If anything they would be completely irrelevant without Reddit probably.
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I do agree that some people focus way to much on reddit and need to branch out. That is alway a good part of the discussion. Reddit is only as important as we make it.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
To be fair tho, can you really build a community for an esport once the esport is already kind of established? I don't really know anything apart from Dota, but in Dota I don't think that happened. teamliquid is probably the latest community that formed around dota and they started supporting Dota pretty early on. Gosugamers has been around since forever, and joinDOTA was formed before Dota 2 as well.
I don't think you can, I think everyone who's a hardcore Dota fan already has his 'home', or if someone's going to become a hardcore dota fan, he's going to go to gg.net, jD or TL.
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Giant bomb had Jeff gerstmann, which is all they needed to get going. Ryan Davis and the rest of the crew were just icing on the cake. They would never had needed reddit.
I think the focus needs to be on how to need reddit less. And for people like destiny, it kind of the only place that will deal with his nonsense.
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3 content creators talk about the dependency of a content-aggregating site.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
Right, and onGamers could get people of similar stature (relatively speaking) within eSports. Giantbomb was successful because of more than just Jeff and Ryan. It was because they had a different focus/attitude than the other sites, and they had a monetization system which people were happy to pay for.
To be fair tho, can you really build a community for an esport once the esport is already kind of established? I don't really know anything apart from Dota, but in Dota I don't think that happened. teamliquid is probably the latest community that formed around dota and they started supporting Dota pretty early on. Gosugamers has been around since forever, and joinDOTA was formed before Dota 2 as well. Well if joinDota failed people could say they would never make it because gosugamers was much older. joinDota succeeded because they became the lead content producer, and they were smart enough to build a community around that. It wasn't 'natural'.
Beyondthesummit could probably have had a pretty big community as well if they were focused on that from the start.
And building a community isn't necessarily about having a forum/website and people posting on it. You can have a big Youtube community, Twitch community. You can have other features such as betting, the wiki, etc...
And there's more you can do to make people visit your site than just forums or commenting. Daily content, for example, is rarely posted on reddit. If it's good, people will visit your site for it.
It's just you have to do 'something'. And onGamers did 'nothing' in this regard.
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