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General Discussion - Page 5768

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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
Kuroeeah
Profile Blog Joined February 2013
11696 Posts
June 26 2014 22:08 GMT
#115341
I agree that there has to be more to it than whats in Fnatic's statement but Valve at the very least needs to respond.

There's absolutely nothing in my mind right now that's remotely plausible into them allowing EG to swap what used to be their confirmed roster but not allow Fnatic to do the same. I really think the situation is similar enough that allowing Fnatic to swap Era is within reason.
teapoted
Profile Joined August 2012
United Kingdom24425 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-26 22:10:28
June 26 2014 22:09 GMT
#115342
On June 27 2014 07:07 Laurens wrote:
Panic attacks caused by travelling. Solution: no more gaming.

I don't know how official the diagnosis is, the article remains quite vague about the health issue. Valve probably has similar doubts? Idk.

Sucks for Fnatic and Era.
Well someone told him he shouldn't go to events this summer. Unless that was his mom, there should be someone qualified who told him that and would vouch for his condition.
Once you Goblak...
Kuroeeah
Profile Blog Joined February 2013
11696 Posts
June 26 2014 22:12 GMT
#115343
Wouldn't you think diagnosing what might be a severe psychological/mental issue would take a little longer than Fear's case of having tennis elbow?
teapoted
Profile Joined August 2012
United Kingdom24425 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-26 22:17:17
June 26 2014 22:14 GMT
#115344
I don't think it would take 5 months no.

I have a family member who has severe joint problems and hasn't been able to walk without support for like 6 years, for what every doctor says is for psychological reasons (and given that I know this person, I believe that). Didn't take that long for any of them to say this.

Regardless, we're talking about someone saying if they're fit to travel and compete. They don't need to pinpoint exactly what the problem is.
Once you Goblak...
EnumaAvalon
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Philippines3613 Posts
June 26 2014 22:17 GMT
#115345
On June 27 2014 06:52 Sn0_Man wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2014 06:49 teapoted wrote:
Something seems missing from that fnatic story.

Pretty much this.

There's no way Valve take that stance based on only what has been shared by Fnatic.
Edit:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2014 06:51 Emnjay808 wrote:
Can someone copy paste w/e is on that site. It wont let me view it for some reason.

From the fnatic discussion thread:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2014 06:35 weak0r wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Provided here is an account of the events in the past half year, based on what has unfolded within the team The purpose of this post is to establish an understanding of our current circumstances and how it came to be. We feel that we owe this statement to the Dota 2 community and our loyal fans. The details disclosed are permitted by Era.

Early this year (January – April)

As many already know, Adrian ‘Era’ Kryeziu has not been participating in recent tournaments due to health issues. As some might remember, the first LAN that Era refrained from playing was the D2L Season 4 LAN Finals in Las Vegas, NV in January of this year. To the rest of the team, this came as a big surprise as there had been no prior indication of sickness (at the very least, Era had never mentioned this before). Our team managed to get 2nd place with two stand-ins. This feat in itself demonstrates the level of commitment and dedication we have to the game.

Later that month, we participated in SLTV’s Starladder Season 8 LAN Finals in Kiev. Era did not exhibit any noticeable health issues and did not voice any concerns. We felt that things were back to normal. Fast forward to April, Dreamhack Bucharest LAN Finals. Again, Era was fully able to travel and appeared normal. However, the rest of the team was completely unaware that Era’s health condition had taken a turn for the worse.

Bootcamp (May- June)

In our preparations for this year’s The International, we were planning on bootcamping in London, the location of Fnatic’s headquarter office. I flew there after DHBucharest, while the remaining four members were to follow suit in late May. Shortly before our scheduled arrival date, we were informed by management that Era would be arriving a few days later than planned. There was an unforeseen relapse in his health condition, and he would be accompanied by his girlfriend and her parents. When he finally arrived, he was not the Era that the team had come to know and love as a brother; he was not himself—he was vomiting every day from anxiety attacks for the short duration of his stay, which was less than a week. He later explained to us that panic attacks would arise every time he had to travel. His condition forced him to return home shortly after his arrival.

The moment that Era left for home, we immediately informed Valve of our circumstances. At the same time, we searched for a stand-in for BeyondTheSummit’s The Summit LAN Finals in Los Angeles, CA. Of course, we considered the possibility of a more extended leave of absence from Era, which is why we chose Steve ‘Xcalibur’ Ye. We were looking for a talented player who could synergize with our team and had the potential to grow, but would also have a completely clear schedule, as none of us knew when Era would fully recover. At the time, Xcalibur felt like the best shot we had.

As we have explained in many interviews, we only had two short days to train with Xcalibur before flying out to BTS. Even with a bleak outlook, we managed to beat arguably one of the strongest teams to date, DK, as well as ViciGaming, who took 1st at EMS, and Na’Vi.US, the winners of TI4’s US Qualifiers. Yes, we were disappointed with 5th/6th place, but given the time we had to prepare, the team felt Xcalibur had raw skill that had the potential to achieve great results with some guidance.

With DreamLeague Season 1 around the corner and ESL One later this month, there were decisions that had to be made, and quickly. Time was not a luxury we had. At this point, we were emphasizing communication on all channels—between Valve, future tournament admins, Era and his family, Era’s doctor, and Fnatic’s upper management. Although we were quite depressed as a team, we could not even begin to imagine Era’s position. His doctor had advised him to avoid games for some time to relieve some anxiety and pressure, so we could not practice with him, even from his home. This would inherently diminish our chances at LANs, so we did not know how to proceed. On the other hand, Era wanted so much to compete with the rest of the team, but the world was against him. This frustration led to his tweet where he states “Not allowed to play at any LAN during the summer. I would’ve loved to, though”. In the end, we hoped to get more practice with Xcalibur while giving Era more room for recovery.

After DreamLeague, we reassessed the situation. Again, Era and his doctor were voicing concerns and again, we were unsure if he would be ready to participate at ESL One, and the fast approaching The International.

As many have seen, we have been playing the past month with Xcalibur. We have beaten Na’Vi in a best-of-three and Alliance in a best-of-five, culminating in a 3rd place finish in D2L Western Challenge and 2nd place in D2CL Season 3, respectively this past week. As mentioned before, we have taken games off other top teams, including DK, VG, and Empire.

The International

It is important to note that we have been in constant communication with Valve from the very beginning. We have kept them informed of our situation and Era’s recovery progress, however slow it has been. Valve consistently stated that those five players that were originally invited to play (namely, Fly, N0tail, Era, Trixi, H4nn1) remain the five players expected to be present in Seattle.

Even though we understood Valve’s position, we appealed to them, stating that our circumstances were starkly different from prior roster changes, as Era’s health condition was unforeseen and has been inconsistent thus far. This is not carpal tunnel or a broken finger. Era’s health condition is psychological in nature and, if not handled correctly, can have detrimental effects extending into his adult years. This is a risk no one wants to take, least of all Era. We want to be 100% confident in Era and his condition. Nevertheless, Valve insists that the original five players play or we cannot play at all.

What Now…

As we approach TI4, we are at a crossroads—to play with Era without knowing if we are damaging his health, or to be disqualified. To play with Era would also mean extreme lack of preparation. We have not been practicing as the original five for some time now because of everything recounted in this post. As such, even if we were once able to perform on that level fans love and crave, we cannot reproduce this performance without practice and preparation.

It is Era’s goal to participate in The International (and our hope); we support Era and hope to see him play alongside us, but in the event that something should happen, we would still like to be granted the opportunity to compete to show our Dota 2 fans and community that same level of commitment and dedication we have to the game.

Thank you for taking the time to read our story. Thanks to friends and family who have stood by us during this difficult time, and to our unwavering fans. We hope to see you all in Seattle!

Sincerely,

Fnatic Dota 2:

Tal ‘Fly’ Aizik
Johan ‘N0tail’ Sundstein
Kai ‘H4nn1’ Hanbueckers
Kalle ‘Trixi’ Saarinen
Adrian ‘Era’ Kryeziu
Patrik Sättermon
Sahil Deva


Statement in Spoiler

It was kind of expected. Era's disappearance was kind of mysterious but I hope that if he can provide good grounds for his absence, Fnatic can play with Excalibur
(._.) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (._.) They see me rolling. They hating.
Kuroeeah
Profile Blog Joined February 2013
11696 Posts
June 26 2014 22:17 GMT
#115346
I mean if what's the drawing the line for Valve IS the "problem", that would just come across as insanely unreasonable to me. There really has to be more to this
RoyGBiv_13
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1275 Posts
June 26 2014 22:24 GMT
#115347
Situation sucks for fnatic, but it is what it is. It sucks to come this close but not be able to compete, but there's an international once a year. I wish them the best of luck next year. Maybe if xcaliber had been part of the team when the invites went out, he would have a chance at going, but as it is, standins are looked at worse than forfeits.

+ Show Spoiler +
Though I do think fnatic has a chance at top 8 with xcaliber, situation sucks.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
suicideyear
Profile Joined December 2012
Ivory Coast3016 Posts
June 26 2014 22:27 GMT
#115348
On June 27 2014 07:24 RoyGBiv_13 wrote:
Situation sucks for fnatic, but it is what it is. It sucks to come this close but not be able to compete, but there's an international once a year. I wish them the best of luck next year. Maybe if xcaliber had been part of the team when the invites went out, he would have a chance at going, but as it is, standins are looked at worse than forfeits.

+ Show Spoiler +
Though I do think fnatic has a chance at top 8 with xcaliber, situation sucks.


+ Show Spoiler +
i think fnatic would have had a better chance with era than xcalibur

seriously he can play like 3 heroes real talk


but that's all not important right now, era's wellbeing is, anxiety is shitty, and anxiety isn't even the worst part, it's all the bad shit in your head that the anxiety starts that becomes the real problem.
)))____◎◎◎◎█████
Eternalobi
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada220 Posts
June 26 2014 22:35 GMT
#115349
So basically Fnatic has to choose the lesser of the two evils. Play at TI 4 with Era at the risk of his health or not play at all.
That's the problem with the current invite format, teams should be allowed a reserve incase something like this happens.
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
June 26 2014 22:39 GMT
#115350
Too bad for fnatic, valve may change their mind but i doubt it.
Tbh they wouldnt have gone far with exca. Maybe next year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
Gosi
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Sweden9072 Posts
June 26 2014 22:41 GMT
#115351
sup erasme

nice items erasme

[13:40] <Qbek> gosi i dreanmt about you
Orome
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Switzerland11984 Posts
June 26 2014 22:49 GMT
#115352
This seems pretty fucking ridiculous. Firstly, they allowed EG to do much the same. Yes, Fnatic's request came later than EG's, but if there's a deadline for substituting players with a medical condition, why the hell doesn't Valve make that public? Secondly, and more importantly, they've put Era into about the shittiest situation they could put someone with an anxiety disorder into. He can either go through the horror of going to TI knowing there's a good chance it will trigger more panic attacks (would it happen between games? on stage even? there's so much added pressure here, even ignoring the pressure to perform well). Or he can be the 'reason' (yes, he's not the reason, but it's hard not to feel that way if you're Era) his team doesn't get to compete for 10 million dollars.

I'll wait for Valve's statement I guess, but this looks like a horrendous decision.
On a purely personal note, I'd like to show Yellow the beauty of infinitely repeating Starcraft 2 bunkers. -Boxer
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
June 26 2014 22:51 GMT
#115353
Had Mason even officially transitioned from "I never want to be anything more than a stand-in" to "I'm on EG" when the invites went out? I honestly can't remember the timeline.
andyrau
Profile Joined December 2010
13015 Posts
June 26 2014 22:53 GMT
#115354
comparing the fear/mason and era thing is pretty dumb
there are substantial differences in the two cases
"Zai is legitimately not as good as bulba." | kaipi ti3 champions
blobrus
Profile Joined August 2011
4297 Posts
June 26 2014 22:56 GMT
#115355
On June 27 2014 07:53 andyrau wrote:
comparing the fear/mason and era thing is pretty dumb
there are substantial differences in the two cases


Agree with this.

Also Valve needs to have official rules for roster replacements and stuff so teams know what to expect and how to handle it because this shit happens way too often (Valve's fault).
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
June 26 2014 22:56 GMT
#115356
On June 27 2014 07:41 Gosi wrote:
sup erasme

nice items erasme


sup gosi

nice items gosi
But one day, when ill be smurfing to play with targe, ill build those items on pl and (more than certainly) win.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-26 23:07:12
June 26 2014 23:06 GMT
#115357
ty erasme for showing me radiance bloodseeker

On June 27 2014 07:56 Erasme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2014 07:41 Gosi wrote:
sup erasme

nice items erasme


sup gosi

nice items gosi
But one day, when ill be smurfing to play with targe, ill build those items on pl and (more than certainly) win.


hey you dont need to smurf to play with me anymore!!1
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 26 2014 23:07 GMT
#115358
I am waiting to see what valve says and more information. I really feel like we are getting one side of the story and that press release was lacking in specific information. If his situation was that serious, I would think the team would have pulled the trigger sooner.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Churrass
Profile Joined October 2013
573 Posts
June 26 2014 23:09 GMT
#115359
On June 27 2014 08:07 Plansix wrote:
I am waiting to see what valve says and more information. I really feel like we are getting one side of the story and that press release was lacking in specific information. If his situation was that serious, I would think the team would have pulled the trigger sooner.


valve communicating...hahaha
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 26 2014 23:17 GMT
#115360
On June 27 2014 08:09 Churrass wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2014 08:07 Plansix wrote:
I am waiting to see what valve says and more information. I really feel like we are getting one side of the story and that press release was lacking in specific information. If his situation was that serious, I would think the team would have pulled the trigger sooner.


valve communicating...hahaha

They clearly communicate with the teams, just not us(which I don't know why they would communicate with us).

Look, I don't have anything against Fantic, but they waited until the 11th hour out to change their roster. EG pulled the trigger some time ago. I don't know what their reasoning is for doing so and I am sure they are taking their case to Valve. This is what happens when you make decisions like to keep an unhealthy team mate on your team and then try to swap them out less than 30 days before the main event.

And for people who want "clear rules", remember that all rules are subject to discretion of the party enforcing them. Rules and laws are not binary in their enforcement. Thats why judges hand down rulings after considering all the facts.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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