EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 5104
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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rob.au
1087 Posts
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
Like i remember a pro (i think aui) saying at the event for TI they were told IF its in the game u can use it. (eg: fountain hook) | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 07 2014 22:17 rob.au wrote: I don't think it's good that they can do that but it's up to the rules to stop it rather than relying on 'sportsmanship'. I agree. I dislike the sportsmanship guilt trip. I have always been of the opinion that every team should take any advantage they can get, even when it comes to "home server advantage". Then everyone knows what to expect and no one can complain because they would do the same thing. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On April 07 2014 22:14 Plansix wrote: This is like a football team bitching that they have to play away games. It happens and you just roll with it. Some football teams play in domes, other play in all weather and are better in it. Teams from Texas play in New England. If you don't like cross server play, dont play dota because there is no way to avoid it. but what if you could switch between grass and that fake grass stuff. The ball bounces different sometimes on that fake grass. If you dont have much experience on that surfice you have a big disadvantage. So, this team can change the grasstype to whatever the competitor has the least experience with or bad results on. Would you classify this as unfair play? | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On April 07 2014 22:14 Talron wrote: To put it in an oversimplified way: They are chosing their server based on what messes with the enemy team the most and not on where they're playing the best at, and that's the problem. I'd probably do the same if I was allowed to, but that's where the unsportsmanship comes in. Neither NA nor EU servers are "good" for C9; they just get to choose which of their players get screwed over and overall it's much of a muchness. As such, whether a server is good or not is exclusively about which gives then an advantage. Bear in mind that one team has to have an advantage in a C9 game, so this isn't them creating an issue that wouldn't otherwise exist. Rather, they are choosing which team deals with worse average pings when one team would have to be dealing with it whatever was chosen People always bring up a team creating a dis/advantage to suggest what C9 is doing is unsportsmanlike. That's simply never a good analogy, because nobody is creating a dis/advantage, it's inherent in the situation, and all that is decided is who gets to be better or worse off. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 07 2014 22:32 govie wrote: but what if you could switch between grass and that fake grass stuff. The ball bounces different sometimes on that fake grass. If you dont have much experience on that surfice you have a big disadvantage. So, this team can change the grasstype to whatever the competitor has the least experience with or bad results on. Would you classify this as unfair play? No. The rules for the event state specifically that they will alternate severs, or who gets server of choice. The "playing field" should be set and known before the game takes place and not in the handed of the two teams to "work out" with eachother. If C9 has the ability to get sever advantage, they would be fools not to take it. No professional sports team would ever give up home field advantage. If the rules don't dictate what server the gem should take place on, blame the rules, not the team. | ||
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ScarPe
Germany392 Posts
and shows if there is something like an "elo-hell". (there isnt) but the most important thing for me personally is the following quote. it is his comment on the 4k-4.5k MMR region and thats EXACTLY what i also think about this region, as i am in it too. Summary: 4017 - 4509 within 29 games (24-5, 83% win rate), some minor upsets but nothing drastical. I'm really starting to dislike this rating range because people are defeatist, egotistical, they think they're very good at the game and try to tutor everybody else (why do they all think they're smarter than the other people at their rating, sigh), they whine and cry from beginning, try to force their item choices and opinions onto others (which are wrong most of the time) and generally are their own worst enemy and the reason they sit there. Games are generally unenjoyable, everybody seems to be fed up with dota here and while people can get annoying at higher ratings I can assure you it's nothing close to this. People who random heroes are generally -1 in the team as they won't repick even something that they can't play (earth spirit from my slark game) and then will just proceed to feed and be useless all game long. People also tend to tunnel vision a lot and die before using their spells or in extremely dumb ways, laning and farming ability slowly starts to get decent, however game sense is still low. | ||
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njt7
Sweden769 Posts
Choosing EU as c9s home server they would be disadvantaged in 100% of of their matches against EU teams. While only at an disadvantage 50% of the times playing versus american teams. Overall they would be at an advantage only 25% of their matches. (If equal amounts of matches versus eu and us teams occur). The same point is true if they choose US as their home server. If they are able to choose their home server before every set of games against a team is to be played the binary numbers equal out they would be playing 50% of their matches with an advantage. All of this is assuming that you switch servers after every game is played and of course that enough games versus each opponent is played. The problem that arise with dota is that you will always need to win one more game then your opponent to take home the match so if it is a EU vs US match taking place the team who gets to play the first and therefore the third/fifth/seventh game on their preferred server will be at an advantage. But this is also true for any matchup when there is EU vs US, this isnt exclusive for C9 hence it does not matter in this case. The real emotional confusion arises when you start counting individual player ping advantages. Considering the assumption above we should only calculate on even amount of games played. C9 playing every second game on EU versus a US team: C9 player disadvantaged on first game on US = 3 C9 player disadvantaged on second game on EU = 2 3+2 / games played(2) = 2.5 US team player disadvantaged on first game on US = 0 US team player disadvantaged on second game on EU = 5 0+5 / games played(2) = 2.5 C9 playing every second game on US versus a EU team: C9 player disadvantaged on first game on EU = 2 C9 player disadvantaged on second game on US = 3 2+3 / games played(2) = 2.5 EU team player disadvantaged on first game on EU = 0 EU team player disadvantaged on second game on US = 5 0+5 / games played(2) = 2.5 Yeah as I see it the only "fair" option is that C9 gets to choose their home server before every match and that they get to start playing on their home server 50% of the times. If anything is wrong with my math or statements point it out. logic > emotion | ||
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Laurens
Belgium4558 Posts
The other day someone randomed razor, went mid, and absolutely raped. I was genuinely surprised and gave him a commend. Most people who random just seem to suck and hold the team back  Bonus points if someone loses money because he hasn't picked yet, then comes back and just randoms as 5th because he doesn't want to spend another 3 seconds determining what the team needs most. | ||
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AwfuL_
Netherlands6976 Posts
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Dubzex
United States6994 Posts
On April 07 2014 22:53 ScarPe wrote: This guy played from 3k to 5.3k within ~130 games, and shows if there is something like an "elo-hell". (there isnt) but the most important thing for me personally is the following quote. it is his comment on the 4k-4.5k MMR region and thats EXACTLY what i also think about this region, as i am in it too. Sounds like me. | ||
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rob.au
1087 Posts
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On April 07 2014 23:14 AwfuL_ wrote: Really? According to DatDota both of the matches were on USE. The only way that's wrong is if the servers are manually added to DatDota, which I doubt.BTW D2L uses USE-EU-USE for US vs EU west matches. For some reason they changed that order in the EG-Fnatic match, they played the first game on EU (the one that EG lost :D). I mean if you go to really old datdota records it will even tell you specifically the address of the server, that stuff was definitely added automatically through some data in the replay files or similar. | ||
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AwfuL_
Netherlands6976 Posts
On April 07 2014 23:40 teapoted wrote: Really? According to DatDota both of the matches were on USE. The only way that's wrong is if the servers are manually added to DatDota, which I doubt. I mean if you go to really old datdota records it will even tell you specifically the address of the server, that stuff was definitely added automatically through some data in the replay files or similar. The entire first match is missing on datdota for some reason, the series went to 3 games. EG gave away Io+Wisp in the first one and lost to it. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
But what we do know is that C9 did play USE 3 times against Liquid. So I would still be surprised if PPD's tweet is correct. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On April 07 2014 23:45 AwfuL_ wrote: EG gave away Io+Wisp in the first one and lost to it. Dat Io + Wisp combo | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
Game is half lost if you have these stubborn/bad players full of egos, like 'Morph dont go too far by your own, if you are dead then we lose' - 20seconds later he is dead. somehow i think the same shit applies to 5k, 6k mmr that i watched some strems though >_> | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On April 07 2014 22:53 ScarPe wrote: This guy played from 3k to 5.3k within ~130 games, and shows if there is something like an "elo-hell". (there isnt) but the most important thing for me personally is the following quote. it is his comment on the 4k-4.5k MMR region and thats EXACTLY what i also think about this region, as i am in it too. Fuck, if ELO hell exists, it sounds like it would be exactly as he described 4-4.5k. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On April 07 2014 23:54 Comeh wrote: Fuck, if ELO hell exists, it sounds like it would be exactly as he described 4-4.5k Home sweet home | ||
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