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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On January 06 2014 05:15 Alur wrote: I will disregard this so I can continue feeling superior to my slightly lower rated friends. I will not disregard that but only towards my higher rated friends obviously all those rated lower than me are at their true rating | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
On January 06 2014 05:28 Alur wrote: Elo hell is (supposedly) an area within the rankings where your teammates are innevitably so bad, that the outcome of the game is more or less independant from your own performance. I've played a lot of games where just 1 or 2 players max carry the whole game themselves. Losing a game because all your teammates are bad except you is typical dota environment. In fact most games are decided because of snowballers, not really because of team work, especially not in solo queue. And the carrying is usually done by the mid player or support players too. Rarely do the hard carries do much in my MMR (3900-4000) as of right now. | ||
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
On January 06 2014 05:15 Alur wrote: I will disregard this so I can continue feeling superior to my slightly lower rated friends. i heard the yango is gold 5 noob anyway | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 06 2014 05:28 Alur wrote: Elo hell is (supposedly) an area within the rankings where your teammates are innevitably so bad, that the outcome of the game is more or less independant from your own performance. Basically, its a mythical place where you can be super good at dota, but still lose to terrible players because your teammates are bad. And you will be stuck there forever, because its hell. So you could think you are top teir and justify your terrible ranking through ELO hell. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On January 06 2014 07:47 Plansix wrote: Basically, its a mythical place where you can be super good at dota, but still lose to terrible players because your teammates are bad. And you will be stuck there forever, because its hell. So you could think you are top teir and justify your terrible ranking through ELO hell. its hell that i can experience on every freakin sunday  | ||
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
On January 06 2014 07:47 Plansix wrote: Basically, its a mythical place where you can be super good at dota, but still lose to terrible players because your teammates are bad. And you will be stuck there forever, because its hell. So you could think you are top teir and justify your terrible ranking through ELO hell. Just out of curiosity what would you argue against for someone who goes positive K/D and a good farm/exp rate every single game, but loses 20-30 in a row due to bad feeder teammates. I only ask not because i actually believe in it as a theory, but its something I experienced personally over the last few weeks. I couldnt figure out why i was constantly being matched with people who couldnt play. Would you just call this variance? Im genuinely curious. I went 25 losses in a row, all but 2 of the games were positive or even K/D ratio. My experience and farm were on par so I was often the highest level and the most farmed on my team regardless of the role i was playing. I had a few games where i was like 20-3-11 or 26-5-14 and we would still lose. Literally every game we would just lose to people feeding kills for 10 minutes until the other team was unstoppable. Whats worse is only a couple of the games were close. Im just generally curious as to wtf is going on with that. Not that I think im in ELO hell or anything. | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
On January 06 2014 08:38 cecek wrote: You lost 20-30 games in a row? I lost 15 in a row before I finally won due to an abandon, but no points were awarded given he abandoned in the first 5 minutes. I then lost the next 10. edit. In response to you edit. =) I certainley considered that, but its really hard to run positive K/D and reasonable farm and experience progression in games that your losing by 15+ kills. And its not like im talking about poor communication and such, we would literally have CM's who would dive 3 people and die repeatedly. Alchemists that were level 11 at 55 minutes with boots and a shadow blade. cliff jungling prophets and Bloods who tranquils and blademail. I refuse to believe I was as bad as them .LOL I mean a pretty average game i would finish something like 10-8-12 and we would have a teammate or two at 1-20 | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
If being 10-0 doesn't mean you have enough game impact to carry then it's meaningless. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On January 06 2014 08:48 Erasme wrote: try to lead your team towards objectives Being a leader really helps in solo MM. This is why I lost 10 games in a row in solo MM. | ||
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
On January 06 2014 08:47 TheYango wrote: Solo MMR measures your ability to carry games, not your ability to not die and get kills. If being 10-0 doesn't mean you have enough game impact to carry then it's meaningless. I had thought of that,and obviously i wasnt able to carry alot of those games (especially since about half i played support), but some of these games we would finish with 10 kills and 1 tower down of which I got 8 of the kills, both assists and killed the tower in my lane. Even if i didnt carry the game to victory, I was the most influential player on my team, wouldnt that indicate some sort ability to carry? Like I said, I dont really believe in ELO hell. But it was a baffling and frustrating experience. Then one day it just stopped. I literally woke up yesterday, played slark, when 26-4 (we still almost lost the game) but we managed to pull through and win. The next 6 games were perfectly fine, we didnt win them all but my teammates werent fence posts. Was just kinda looking for an explanation. Just kinda weird. Right now im just attributing it to all my dota bad luck in a single week. haha | ||
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Excludos
Norway8278 Posts
On January 06 2014 08:38 cecek wrote: You lost 20-30 games in a row? To answer your question, I think it's the infamous Dunning-Kruger effect (is that what it's called?), and you're not playing as well as you think you're playing compared to your teammates. Yeah. One could publish books about the dunning kruger effect based around this game alone. I have never seen a game with this many people who all think they should be progamers or similar but they can't because they are stuck with bad teammates. Starcraft 2 was similar, but there the whine tended to turn towards "X race is op!", if I played your race I would have won the wcs by now!" Not that I haven't whined on my teammates in dota or cursed blizzard for their bad balancing myself.. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 06 2014 08:49 Comeh wrote: Being a leader really helps in solo MM. This is why I lost 10 games in a row in solo MM. It's one way to extend your impact, but for certain it's not the only one. The main thing is that if you are fed, you have to realize that you're the one with the power to direct the game flow. This may involve getting your teammates to do things, but doesn't have to. It's pretty common to see a player who is pretty good come to fights, clean up, and get fed, but then never do anything other than take those opportunistic kills then complain that his teammates fed too hard. Such a player will end the game with a great KDA but in all honesty probably did very little to actually win the game. If your team is behind and you are fed, the burden is on YOU to get them back in the game, because if they're behind they don't have the power to do so on their own. If you're the most fed player on the team, you're the one who has to make those opportunities for your teammates, not the other way round. If you just go to clean up fights after they engage and die, they just get further and further behind. This is part of why solo kills are often a big deal in solo play. They are one of the lower-risk ways to create space for your team--they don't require your teammates' assistance and are still a big boon to your own development since solo kill XP is so high, while your teammates get space to do things like farm or push towers as the enemy team wastes time waiting for that person to res or TPing to try and stop you. On January 06 2014 08:53 Darpa wrote: (especially since about half i played support) There are a lot of supports that have incredibly high solo impact on the game if you really do get fed 5 kills worth of gold and XP early on. The ones that don't (or who don't have the means to get those kills) are the ones that aren't that good for pub games. | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
On January 06 2014 08:59 cecek wrote: I dunno man, you could post your dotabuff profile and someone might look at some replays. Not me, I'm too lazy (and busy right now), sorry. The only thing I know is that if I went 25 losses in a row, I think I would need to take a very long break. hahaha yeah, I lost alot of hair this week. glad its finally over though. | ||
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Shaella
United States14828 Posts
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On January 06 2014 08:47 TheYango wrote: Solo MMR measures your ability to carry games, not your ability to not die and get kills. If being 10-0 doesn't mean you have enough game impact to carry then it's meaningless. I don't really get what you mean by this. Solo MMR is a measure of whether you help or hinder your team's effort at victory. It's a measure of your total ability as a Dota player when matched with randoms. You don't need to carry (either in terms of dominating or playing 1/2 role) at all. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
So what's the difference before and after the introduction of rmm? Valve released a product for people who wanted that rmm = more money for them (i have never seen that high amount of players like 500k+ concurrent players for many hours in a day). Competitive people now have a target/number to go for or grind for so that can only be good for the business. While the 'smart' people still wont be queueing solo (the rare times that their friends are not online dont count), just like how they played the game before the introduction of rmm. Many of my friends didnt even bother to go through that 10 games of solo queue so that says something. And i dont believe that valve use a separate ranking for solo and team mm before this rmm system (and thus everyone has similar solo/team ranking after the 'calibration') hence the rankings of existed players are very messy to begin with in the first place. All in all, i am happy to look at my rank on my smurf, screw that number on my main account (i am going to hide it forever since i cant be fucked to 'grind through it'). Would be interesting to see someone climb the solo ranking from 4k to 5k though. Hell, even from 3k to 4k it would be so damn impressive. | ||
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