EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 4275
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crms
United States11933 Posts
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Shaella
United States14828 Posts
Nope. NEWP NEWP NEWP Can we just talk about how bad trying to run Mirana as a 1 is instead | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:15 Shaella wrote: Can we just talk about how bad trying to run Mirana as a 1 is instead | ||
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Kirsed
9381 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:21 trinxified wrote: Lol yeah for real what's up with the Mirana as hard carry, Weaver not seeing any play at all anymore, and Alchemist as support. Weaver is so weird it only really saw play from 6.68 until 6.68c in conjunction with treant.Then almost nothing until group stage of TI3. Why isn't Leshrac getting more play now anyways? | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
Post-patch I'm too bad to have an opinion, but anecdotally, the BAT nerf was brutal. In theory it shouldn't be a big deal, because he should just be cycling shukuchi into geminate anyway, but in practice there are so many instances where an extra autoattack that little bit faster would have secured a kill. It feels so painful. | ||
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Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:15 Shaella wrote: No. Nope. NEWP NEWP NEWP Can we just talk about how bad trying to run Mirana as a 1 is instead It does seem REALLY strange. No inherent damage scaling, no flashfarming methods, a team utility ult and an incredibly long nonscaling stun. None of this screams HEY LETS GET A LOT OF FARM ON THIS HERO but it seems to happen a lot. And not work all that much. | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:50 Staboteur wrote: It does seem REALLY strange. No inherent damage scaling, no flashfarming methods, a team utility ult and an incredibly long nonscaling stun. None of this screams HEY LETS GET A LOT OF FARM ON THIS HERO but it seems to happen a lot. And not work all that much. Flash farming is sorta there. But I think having utility carry nowadays is the way to go. | ||
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Nilrem
United States3684 Posts
As for Mirana, I wish I would see more of her. She is the sort of hero that if played well on the other team, it would royally piss me off. *spider senses tingling.... entire team appears out of thing air* I just do not see her as being 1. I would actually dislike seeing her play the 1 role because I think she is just more enjoyable as a utility hero. | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
It's just weird lol. I prefer calling most with their actual names as suppose to the titles. | ||
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Kirsed
9381 Posts
On November 05 2013 13:05 trinxified wrote: I dunno why this bothers me but why didn't Dota2 just make the hero names consistent? Like make them all first name basis or just titles instead... It's just weird lol. I prefer calling most with their actual names as suppose to the titles. Blame Blizzard. | ||
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Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:59 trinxified wrote: Flash farming is sorta there. But I think having utility carry nowadays is the way to go. I think/hope the Mirana choice is more about the lanes than anything else, I just don't understand why "utility carry" is a thing. What's stopping teams from running Earthshaker carries or reviving Naga carry? | ||
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Nilrem
United States3684 Posts
On November 05 2013 13:12 Staboteur wrote: I think/hope the Mirana choice is more about the lanes than anything else, I just don't understand why "utility carry" is a thing. What's stopping teams from running Earthshaker carries or reviving Naga carry? I think one of the reasons why you do not see those necessarily is because their utility outweighs their carry potential (on their own). So, if their utility (like Nagas ult) works better and allows for more utility then her focusing on just carry, that is the route they will go. Having a 1 that has less utility and take a lesser carry but with better utility, best of both worlds. | ||
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RuskiPanda
United States2906 Posts
On November 05 2013 13:04 Nilrem wrote: Hey guys, I wanna talk about my feelings. Is that ok? As for Mirana, I wish I would see more of her. She is the sort of hero that if played well on the other team, it would royally piss me off. *spider senses tingling.... entire team appears out of thing air* I just do not see her as being 1. I would actually dislike seeing her play the 1 role because I think she is just more enjoyable as a utility hero. You can enjoy your utlity while I enjoy my manta deso daedalus pew pew. Also maelstrom is perfectly fine for flash farming, if albeit a bit unpredictable. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
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Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
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Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
On November 05 2013 13:27 CosmicSpiral wrote: I feel that utility carries suffer if the game gets stalled out. They kinda rely on riding momentum to close out victories. maybe that's the reason why one position mirana is so popular because momentum shifts are much bigger now from the gold you gain from winning team fights and the nature of 6.79 being just being faster. i could see it being pretty hard to play against a mirana when momentum is on her side with how the game is right now so i'm pretty sure this is probably the reason why she's popular. | ||
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Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
On November 05 2013 13:21 Nilrem wrote: I think one of the reasons why you do not see those necessarily is because their utility outweighs their carry potential (on their own). So, if their utility (like Nagas ult) works better and allows for more utility then her focusing on just carry, that is the route they will go. Having a 1 that has less utility and take a lesser carry but with better utility, best of both worlds. Both Mirana and Naga have three major utility skills. Both have selfless, team-impacting ults that help set up fights. Both have incredibly potent long-duration lockdowns, and where naga has an AoE armour debuff, Mirana has an attackspeed /movespeed buff. If I had to analyze, the big reason Mirana is being run as a position 1 and Naga is not is that the amount of farm needed to get Naga to where she needs to be to carry is further into the game than where you'd have to be for Mirana to start picking off people. But all that means is that Naga isn't a very strong position 1 in a version that isn't allowing games to drag on actionless for long... it also doesn't explain why Mirana is being given space to farm, when most of what she brings is utility that is level, not gold, dependent. If anything, shouldn't she be pressuring / making space for other heroes to farm? (Also bad for Naga is the stepping away from big teamfight lineups... but with the return of Invoker... I have hopes :D) | ||
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Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 05 2013 13:35 Staboteur wrote: Both Mirana and Naga have three major utility skills. Both have selfless, team-impacting ults that help set up fights. Both have incredibly potent long-duration lockdowns, and where naga has an AoE armour debuff, Mirana has an attackspeed /movespeed buff. If I had to analyze, the big reason Mirana is being run as a position 1 and Naga is not is that the amount of farm needed to get Naga to where she needs to be to carry is further into the game than where you'd have to be for Mirana to start picking off people. But all that means is that Naga isn't a very strong position 1 in a version that isn't allowing games to drag on actionless for long... it also doesn't explain why Mirana is being given space to farm, when most of what she brings is utility that is level, not gold, dependent. If anything, shouldn't she be pressuring / making space for other heroes to farm? (Also bad for Naga is the stepping away from big teamfight lineups... but with the return of Invoker... I have hopes :D) You're undervaluing the fact that she's a 600 range hero with a jump skill. Having long range is an enormous boon for a right-click hero lategame. Just look at all the other 600+ range Agi heroes. On November 05 2013 13:42 Kuroeeah wrote: I think Mirana is fairly item dependent actually. she can do decent dps as a utility carry but she always needs to be one item ahead against the other position 1 otherwise she'll have a hard time carrying out the game. This is correct. She has powerful early level timings based on her nukes but going into midgame, her right-click ability is mediocre. She needs several major items to have the damage to abuse the strengths of her kit lategame. Of note is that Mirana's weakest point in the game (after maxed nukes, before 3rd major item) is the point in the game people are buying Midases and farming. | ||
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