EPTJonathan Berg @LodaBerg 1m
Received the money from TPL for our 1st place.
Received the money from TPL for our 1st place.
How did this TPL Drama end anyway?
General Discussion - Page 4044
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Grettin
42416 Posts
How did this TPL Drama end anyway? | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
That's a bunch of questions but I think it'd help me understand the situation. :x | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
On October 03 2013 04:03 Alaric wrote: Uh... so I'm a Doto scrub, so I'm having trouble getting all the intricacies of the discussion, but basically:
That's a bunch of questions but I think it'd help me understand the situation. :x Arcane Orb is a UAM, yes. AO triggers his aura, both manually cast and autocast. Though the Orb is pure damage, it doesn't work against targets immune to magic, so BKB hurts him pretty badly as he's reduced to just regular rightclicks. You've got pooling right, except that it happens at the start of the game so that, for instance, your Morphling can start with a Wraith Band + Tango + Flask. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
On October 03 2013 04:03 Alaric wrote: Uh... so I'm a Doto scrub, so I'm having trouble getting all the intricacies of the discussion, but basically:
That's a bunch of questions but I think it'd help me understand the situation. :x 1. generally OD will not get a point in his orb early because it takes a massive portion of his mana pool, and yes it is a Unique attack modifier. 2. It triggers either way. 3.Kinda, he will itemize for orb damage, but almost never for just regular autoattack damage except through what he gets from int items ofc. but remember that his orb cant damage through magic immunity, which is a tremendous downside in the mid late game when people have bkbs. 4. your gettin there  5. that is a tricky question and is dependent on heroes, generally only a small number of heroes can really contest mid lane against him, i guess most notable would be Razer and Lone Druid. (there are people much better then me who could give a better answer to this question, its really a big'un) 6. Hes a glass cannon, so he has all of the downsides that comes with that, and is shut down by magic immunity and silences. also he has no aoe flashfarm and is farm and level dependent to the point that playing from behind with him is almost a sure loss. you pretty much nailed his weakness'. against him you should abuse his lack of mobility and counterpush to take towers. edit- yes, pooling means that one hero will buy tangoes/salves/clarities/even a bottle if your crazy for another hero. | ||
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Daozzt
United States1263 Posts
On October 03 2013 04:03 Alaric wrote: Uh... so I'm a Doto scrub, so I'm having trouble getting all the intricacies of the discussion, but basically:
That's a bunch of questions but I think it'd help me understand the situation. :x 1. yes 2. manual/autocast work the same 3. yes 4. pick a hero that doesn't rely on int/mana to cs or harass 5. bkb | ||
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xsevR
United States324 Posts
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Incze
Romania2058 Posts
Both manual cast and autocast trigger essence aura. He does scale super hard, but only if there are no bkbs present, since they totally nullify him. There are very few heroes who can (sort of) deal with him mid. Lone druid, razor, kunkka spring to mind. Maybe even viper, if there's a big skill disparity between them. His weakness is in magic immunity and the fact that he needs to win mid, so if you gank him early and often he'll be a non-factor in mid game and thereafter | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
You level astral and aura and ult. In mid lane, OD starts with really high damage and using astral he gets even more damage, so he wins essentially every last hit battle. He denies the opponents any chance to use spells since he takes away their int (aka their mana pool). OD beats the vast majority of heroes mid, but loses to a few who kinda circumvent his advantages. Dealing with OD mid is a case of either get Razor/Lone Druid (razor max link and passive) or gank him a ton. Its rough. However, OD doesn't farm too rapidly usually and is quite negated by BKBs so the hero isn't wildly OP. Plus the vast majority of players aren't really all that good with him mid and will let the other player get lasthits etc for no reason. While OD does a LOT of right click damage with his orb, he can't orb magic immune things. Which means BKB prevents the vast majority of his damage (his normal right clicks still hurt but its not at all the same). His ult also doesn't hit magic immune targets, and his ult is also a lot of his damage. Having orb on auto-cast or manual cast doesn't affect it's chances to proc aura. I forget the amount but you can generally turn on orb auto once you have 4 in aura and int treads since that practically gives you enough mana by itself. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On October 03 2013 04:03 Alaric wrote: Uh... so I'm a Doto scrub, so I'm having trouble getting all the intricacies of the discussion, but basically:
That's a bunch of questions but I think it'd help me understand the situation. :x 1. You usually get earlier points into Astral prison than that, often skipping your Orb until "you need it" typically being when you need to start fighting and stop laning. He has high base stats and gains base damage from astral prison making it difficult to compete with him, in addition to your astral prison removing you from the field for a few seconds. 2. the Mana restore change works whether arcane orb is manual or auto-cast. The difference between the two is that autocast orbs draw AI aggro while manual cast do not, as they are considered solely spellcasts and not attacks.4> 3. OD scales pretty well yes, He does have weaknesses to BKB which grants magic immunity temporarily because it removes his orb vs that target and his ultimate and prison. he also has little ways to escape from engagements so teams can control him as they need with good play 4. More or less yeah 5. Dealing with OD mid has two forms, either pick a competent laner against him (razor, Lone druid, troll warlord, ect), or gank him because he's one of the most unsafe laners in the game in that if he gets caught out he dies almost always in lane. He also doesn't farm particularly well outside of lane control, so he does not "come back" very well if he's put down early, unless he's given space. Pooling is indeed havign supports buy consumables for another lane so they can spend more on early stats for more laning power. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
(so that he can start with 2 duh) | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Feels pretty satisfactory to have mostly gotten it right, maybe at some point I'll be able to watch a tourney by myself w/o missing half the stuff. | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
I mean PA/Jugg/Void, etc. are better off with a different item build rather than rush Bfury... Speaking of Void, what's the standard-ish item build for him? For some reason I can't keep this hero rolling in pubs unless I'm already being carried by team mates into the mid-game. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On October 03 2013 04:21 Alaric wrote: Thanks for all the detailed answers guys. <3 Feels pretty satisfactory to have mostly gotten it right, maybe at some point I'll be able to watch a tourney by myself w/o missing half the stuff. If you want to watch a recent game that involves OD at the top level and pretty much displays every part of the questions you had, try watching+ Show Spoiler + Game 2 of DK vs iG of the WPC that happened last night. Specifically, Mushi is known for is OD, and his opponent is often named among the top mid laners in the world. http://www.twitch.tv/beyondthesummit/c/3021351 | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Clockwerk picks ftw. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On October 03 2013 04:21 Alaric wrote: Thanks for all the detailed answers guys. <3 Feels pretty satisfactory to have mostly gotten it right, maybe at some point I'll be able to watch a tourney by myself w/o missing half the stuff. The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know. 4+ years in, all I know is that I don't know shit, relatively speaking. On October 03 2013 04:23 trinxified wrote: Getting Bfury on any hero other than AM is usually bad or just situational (like against PL or something) right? I mean PA/Jugg/Void, etc. are better off with a different item build rather than rush Bfury... Speaking of Void, what's the standard-ish item build for him? For some reason I can't keep this hero rolling in pubs unless I'm already being carried by team mates into the mid-game. Well technically every item is situational on every hero, but w/e lol. Void Bfury is pretty good because 1) ring of health is usually helpful in lane and you don't want tranquils and 2) Void is incredibly farm reliant and really lacks any great farm ability (so bfury helps that out). Jugg bfury is generally considered weak since jugg can farm with spin for a while and in general has all the tools to fight early not afk rice which is what bfury is for. PA bfury is also pretty weak but PA does scale remarkably well and if you are forced to rice it out bfury is a great way to do that. Also helps you fight illusion heroes which is sometimes useful. The only thing about void is often midas is easier to "rush" and once you have a midas, going bfury as well is kinda overkill on the farm, although its not really illegitimate either. Note that MoM is actually a solid farming item on void since you run around and clear faster with it, and he is fairly safe doing that in the jungle (toggle treads to ease any mana burden it may cause!). It is a ton of IAS for cheap. So for void ideally you can do something like Midas ->(treads plus) MoM or bfury depending on how long you are ricing -> Crits ->butterfly Insert a bkb whenever you feel the need to fight (working on the assumption that you will chrono + kill any bkb piercing disables and just shrug off the rest). Insert an MKB over another damage item when they have evasion/blind. To be clear, you *will* be buying BKB most games, the question is when and that is up to you to decide. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
Or on Mirana because i love that on my tiger. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
MoM is less compelling when you don't get one fast enough to be a solo-kill threat. In that case, the higher overall farming speed of having a farming item might be better. In the long run, MoM DOES farm slower than BF or Mael, so you have to take advantage of the fact that MoM is better for killing people than either of those items for it to be worth it. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
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