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General Discussion - Page 4038
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On October 02 2013 15:29 Firebolt145 wrote: All that tells me is you'd rather be someone's bitch and win than man up for yourself. Doesn't that sum up anyone who wants to ever play support? :D | ||
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Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://cs323328.userapi.com/v323328993/9e55/HrFxibhZdLY.jpg&sa=X&ei=urxLUsGECY7e8ASJ34CICA&ved=0CFsQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNHVw425Po4l-7EzUcLUGI-ICWpuuw) After months of serving his lord with life threatening ward placements and the tallest of ancient stacks only to be betrayed, beaten and unappreciated. You too can now feel his pain in a simple pub game. | ||
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
On October 02 2013 15:30 FuzzyJAM wrote: Doesn't that sum up anyone who wants to ever play support? :D Not if you're good. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 02 2013 15:24 FuzzyJAM wrote: Your way of playing and enjoying Dota isn't the only way. I'd much rather play with Eternal Envy than with the majority of people. Is that because you are ok with the way he plays, or because you'd get to play with EternalEnvy? Also, the majority of DotA players are just as selfish. When someone gets to play carry, the majority will pick one that has zero early game potential, pick the greediest possible starting items that has zero chance of being sustainable in lane unless the supports baby them for the first 10 minutes, go some ungodly farming build, and expect their team to wait for them for 30 minutes before they can win a fight. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On October 02 2013 15:44 TheYango wrote: Is that because you are ok with the way he plays, or because you'd get to play with EternalEnvy? Also, the majority of DotA players are just as selfish. When someone gets to play carry, the majority will pick one that has zero early game potential, pick the greediest possible starting items that has zero chance of being sustainable in lane unless the supports baby them for the first 10 minutes, go some ungodly farming build, and expect their team to wait for them for 30 minutes before they can win a fight. I don't think he plays the way I'd pick for an ideal teammate, but I'd much sooner have someone who was really into it and tried to get teamwork going than your average player who just does whatever. As for it being selfish to play a standard carry. . .nah, not really. You could just as easily argue that not playing hard support where you get Courier, Wards, Sentries, upgrade, second set of Wards, pool regen, etc. before buying your own Boots at 15 minutes is "selfish". I just don't think it makes any sense. | ||
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RuskiPanda
United States2906 Posts
On October 02 2013 15:44 TheYango wrote: Is that because you are ok with the way he plays, or because you'd get to play with EternalEnvy? Also, the majority of DotA players are just as selfish. When someone gets to play carry, the majority will pick one that has zero early game potential, pick the greediest possible starting items that has zero chance of being sustainable in lane unless the supports baby them for the first 10 minutes, go some ungodly farming build, and expect their team to wait for them for 30 minutes before they can win a fight. Coming to lane with glove of haste and salve since 2011. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 02 2013 15:59 FuzzyJAM wrote: As for it being selfish to play a standard carry. . .nah, not really. You could just as easily argue that not playing hard support where you get Courier, Wards, Sentries, upgrade, second set of Wards, pool regen, etc. before buying your own Boots at 15 minutes is "selfish". I just don't think it makes any sense. It's not the same. A support that does not buy courier/wards/etc. is an inconvenience, but it is one that can be rectified by the other players on the team. If our support refuses to buy these things, I, as a different player, have the option to get those things. In fact, it's considered common courtesy in Chinese pubs for the player who wants to take mid to buy the courier (and it's considered quite discourteous for someone who didn't buy the courier to try and hog mid from someone who did). Likewise, it's frequent that the mid player is the one to buy the wards. A carry player that does as I described is something that the rest of the team cannot fix. There is no choice that any of the other 4 players in the game can make that suddenly makes a Midas+BF Anti-Mage have teamfighting ability. As such, the carry player in this situation essentially holds the game hostage against the other 4 players on his team, and unlike the case of the "selfish" support, there is nothing they can do about it. | ||
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RockIronrod
Australia1369 Posts
http://dotabuff.com/players/43276219/matches As for the whole "his fun vs other peoples fun" thing, I don't think that matters to him at all. It's more "winning vs everything" with winning being the most important thing (because he's a tryhard emo soloqueuer, this should be obvious). Other players are unknown factors, he is a known quantity, giving him a chance to snowball = greater chance of winning. Looking at his last few pages, it's working. in any case how can you dislike someone who likes toradora? | ||
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negon
212 Posts
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
PS. My own opinion is that he has a lot of haters, and they just gonna hate. Which is there perogative. lol. There are other players I hate myself. | ||
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cabarkapa
United States1013 Posts
On October 02 2013 17:18 negon wrote: The most selfish thing is playing a bad, self-absorbed support, becoming food for enemies after 10mins and thinking that the fact you're carrying wards and two branches means you're some kind of a godlike asset to the team, selflessly busting your ass for the victory.. yeah, no. Yeah screw wards, getting a force staff is so much more fun. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 02 2013 17:08 RockIronrod wrote: It's more "winning vs everything" with winning being the most important thing (because he's a tryhard emo soloqueuer, this should be obvious). Other players are unknown factors, he is a known quantity, giving him a chance to snowball = greater chance of winning. He's depending on his teammates (the unknown factors) to do what he wants, which in and of itself is a risk. As opposed to just playing a solo lane, which puts no such dependency on the other players. If you are a player who believes you are generally better than the other players in the game (EE rightfully should, seeing as he's a professional player), then to win pub games, you want to put yourself in situations where your individual skill is being matched up against the individual skill of someone on the other team. This is why solo lanes are generally considered the best for carrying pub games. Any scenario where the outcome is dependent on your individual skill matched against the opponent's is one where the better player is gaining an advantage. From this perspective, jungle Storm is totally nonsensical for "tryhard" pub games, not because it's a bad strategy, but because spending the first 6 minutes of the game fighting creeps and having zero ability to go out and kill other players is 6 minutes where your individual skill advantage is not being put to any use of winning the game. | ||
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
Edit: I mean in a lot of ways his jungling SS is like textbook "playing to his strengths" haha | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On October 02 2013 17:24 Atreides wrote: Well I don't think that is fair either, because obviously EE is an exceptionally good farmer compared to a pub and so he is putting his individual skill to use to gain an advantage in the game. Edit: I mean in a lot of ways his jungling SS is like textbook "playing to his strengths" haha Cannot wait to see EE stream/his reactions while he is on china/sea server :DD same to aui/sing. | ||
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negon
212 Posts
On October 02 2013 17:19 cabarkapa wrote: Yeah screw wards, getting a force staff is so much more fun. Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but I am not saying you shouldn't be getting wards.. just that there are tons of bad players playing support exclusively, thinking their only obligation is to place wards and maybe stackpull, while dying all the time, leaving the carry alone at worst times, buying wards/dusts/smokes when they have no need for them and yet thinking they're contributing so much. There's more to playing support than placing wards, sometimes you should prioritise other things.. for yourself and for the team too.. and a surprising number of players seem unable to understand that. And they're oh so sure they're doing nothing wrong. | ||
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cabarkapa
United States1013 Posts
On October 02 2013 19:46 negon wrote: Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but I am not saying you shouldn't be getting wards.. just that there are tons of bad players playing support exclusively, thinking their only obligation is to place wards and maybe stackpull, while dying all the time, leaving the carry alone at worst times, buying wards/dusts/smokes when they have no need for them and yet thinking they're contributing so much. There's more to playing support than placing wards, sometimes you should prioritise other things.. for yourself and for the team too.. and a surprising number of players seem unable to understand that. And they're oh so sure they're doing nothing wrong. Well you can get a few wards, but if you are playing pubs it's a lot more fun to get items that actually do stuff. Don't know why people would want to try hard as a support. | ||
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negon
212 Posts
On October 02 2013 19:55 cabarkapa wrote: Well you can get a few wards, but if you are playing pubs it's a lot more fun to get items that actually do stuff. Don't know why people would want to try hard as a support. Oh right, I assumed you meant something else. Nevermind. | ||
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cabarkapa
United States1013 Posts
On October 02 2013 19:57 negon wrote: Oh right, I assumed you meant something else. Nevermind. Well at least you let out your true feelings! | ||
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