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On September 23 2013 07:19 Firebolt145 wrote:
Let's not start the 'which role is more/less important' discussion again.
So you're saying that you're gonna have a fun time when your weaker player calls mid and gets dumpstered by someone that plays on page 1?
In competitive play, every role is equally as important. Up to even page 1 MMR games however, your mid and carry better be at a certain baseline, or you're pretty much screwed. Big reason for this is that mistakes are not capitalized early on by lots of players, and as such, almost all pubs get dragged into mid to late game situations. Support play is only as good as your carry players; the assumption in competitive play is that your mid/offlaner/carry know what they are doing, and as such know how to capitalize on great support play.
This is not true in public play. This is exactly why heroes like QoP, Mirana, Juggernaut, Tiny, Huskar, Spirit Breaker, etc. and other snowball/do it all type heroes tend to completely smash pubs. They play almost independent of the supports on the team, and are capable of quickly getting out of control quickly.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
On September 23 2013 07:35 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 07:19 Firebolt145 wrote:
Let's not start the 'which role is more/less important' discussion again. So you're saying that you're gonna have a fun time when your weaker player calls mid and gets dumpstered by someone that plays on page 1? In competitive play, every role is equally as important. Up to even page 1 MMR games however, your mid and carry better be at a certain baseline, or you're pretty much screwed. Big reason for this is that mistakes are not capitalized early on by lots of players, and as such, almost all pubs get dragged into mid to late game situations.
I'm not saying anything about what my opinion on the matter is.
I'm saying that we should not have this discussion again.
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On September 23 2013 07:27 teapoted wrote:
It's obviously friendship.
I thought it was whatever role I was playing, except when I lose. Then it's the role of the guy who did the worst on my team.
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On September 23 2013 07:37 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 07:35 superstartran wrote:On September 23 2013 07:19 Firebolt145 wrote:
Let's not start the 'which role is more/less important' discussion again. So you're saying that you're gonna have a fun time when your weaker player calls mid and gets dumpstered by someone that plays on page 1? In competitive play, every role is equally as important. Up to even page 1 MMR games however, your mid and carry better be at a certain baseline, or you're pretty much screwed. Big reason for this is that mistakes are not capitalized early on by lots of players, and as such, almost all pubs get dragged into mid to late game situations. I'm not saying anything about what my opinion on the matter is. I'm saying that we should not have this discussion again.
Why because people gets mad that I say support players get completely minimized in pubs? That's not being offensive, that's just a fact. Up to even the highest 'pub' levels (even in IXDL, ICCUP, and other various IHLs) support players are not as important as your "skill" positions (that's a bad word for it, but not sure how to describe it any other way). It doesn't matter if you keep up wards/stack/control carry lane/etc. if your 1/2/3 positions aren't fundamentally solid enough to capitalize on what you are doing as a support player. Who cares if I zone the guy out the lane completely if my carry player can't even control the lane properly.
When support heroes run over games, it's because they aren't being played as a support hero anymore. They are being played as a semi-carry more often than not. That Lion running around with Necro 3/Blink/Hex isn't a support hero. Same with the WD with Aghs/BKB and other nonsensical items.
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Funnily enough, playing 4->2 position in pubs is not a half bad way of going about it.
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I miss my desktop so much, its been almost 3 months since I played a proper dota game with it 
Will play professional selfless support for anyone sponsored me a desktop/powerful 17' laptop.
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On September 23 2013 07:54 BurningSera wrote:I miss my desktop so much, its been almost 3 months since I played a proper dota game with it Will play professional selfless support for anyone sponsored me a desktop/powerful 17' laptop.
I would say I knew your pain, but I imagine you're still able to play SOME dota, just not with the computer you'd like.
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On September 23 2013 07:45 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 07:37 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 23 2013 07:35 superstartran wrote:On September 23 2013 07:19 Firebolt145 wrote:
Let's not start the 'which role is more/less important' discussion again. So you're saying that you're gonna have a fun time when your weaker player calls mid and gets dumpstered by someone that plays on page 1? In competitive play, every role is equally as important. Up to even page 1 MMR games however, your mid and carry better be at a certain baseline, or you're pretty much screwed. Big reason for this is that mistakes are not capitalized early on by lots of players, and as such, almost all pubs get dragged into mid to late game situations. I'm not saying anything about what my opinion on the matter is. I'm saying that we should not have this discussion again. Why because people gets mad that I say support players get completely minimized in pubs? That's not being offensive, that's just a fact. Up to even the highest 'pub' levels (even in IXDL, ICCUP, and other various IHLs) support players are not as important as your "skill" positions (that's a bad word for it, but not sure how to describe it any other way). It doesn't matter if you keep up wards/stack/control carry lane/etc. if your 1/2/3 positions aren't fundamentally solid enough to capitalize on what you are doing as a support player. Who cares if I zone the guy out the lane completely if my carry player can't even control the lane properly. When support heroes run over games, it's because they aren't being played as a support hero anymore. They are being played as a semi-carry more often than not. That Lion running around with Necro 3/Blink/Hex isn't a support hero. Same with the WD with Aghs/BKB and other nonsensical items.
Oh my god this is so so true. There are just so many situations where you as a support can create openings and opportunities, but if your carry is subpar, they completely waste those. Situation that happened a few weeks ago: play as enchant, get my safe lane LD 3 kills and a tower in under 5 minutes, on their solo offlane Huskar. 20 minute mark, LD has raw midas and boots. Go back to replay, LD has 43 last hits free farming in 20 minutes. Oh yeah, this is "very high"
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On September 23 2013 07:45 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 07:37 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 23 2013 07:35 superstartran wrote:On September 23 2013 07:19 Firebolt145 wrote:
Let's not start the 'which role is more/less important' discussion again. So you're saying that you're gonna have a fun time when your weaker player calls mid and gets dumpstered by someone that plays on page 1? In competitive play, every role is equally as important. Up to even page 1 MMR games however, your mid and carry better be at a certain baseline, or you're pretty much screwed. Big reason for this is that mistakes are not capitalized early on by lots of players, and as such, almost all pubs get dragged into mid to late game situations. I'm not saying anything about what my opinion on the matter is. I'm saying that we should not have this discussion again. Why because people gets mad that I say support players get completely minimized in pubs? That's not being offensive, that's just a fact. Up to even the highest 'pub' levels (even in IXDL, ICCUP, and other various IHLs) support players are not as important as your "skill" positions (that's a bad word for it, but not sure how to describe it any other way). It doesn't matter if you keep up wards/stack/control carry lane/etc. if your 1/2/3 positions aren't fundamentally solid enough to capitalize on what you are doing as a support player. Who cares if I zone the guy out the lane completely if my carry player can't even control the lane properly. When support heroes run over games, it's because they aren't being played as a support hero anymore. They are being played as a semi-carry more often than not. That Lion running around with Necro 3/Blink/Hex isn't a support hero. Same with the WD with Aghs/BKB and other nonsensical items.
this is a good point. Because Support heros require less items to get shit done, its much harder for them to be 'wasted'
where as a 1/2/3 needs items to have their impact, and if they don't. they'll be wasted
Awesome support players win games hard, but its hard to make the argument that 2 support players on a team with 3 shit teir players has a great chance of winning. In pubs the strongest player on the highest impact position GENERALLY makes sense, but fails to take into account individual role preference ect.
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Does anyone know about how much the portal pack be on sale for?
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i mean u find out tomororw lol
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I feel like its going to be for a lot.
Just a hunch.
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Well it's annoying that when you do a good job at supporting but then still get the blame when your carry player doesn't do well. Nice way to get an escape goat.
The usual pub-sense. When your team wins, the carry player will ask, "commend plz" because they wrecked the enemy as if they did it on their own. When you lose, the carry player will say, "no wards gg or support feeder", while really there are wards but they got no map awareness and also you died for them because they are careless.
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On September 23 2013 07:45 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 07:37 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 23 2013 07:35 superstartran wrote:On September 23 2013 07:19 Firebolt145 wrote:
Let's not start the 'which role is more/less important' discussion again. So you're saying that you're gonna have a fun time when your weaker player calls mid and gets dumpstered by someone that plays on page 1? In competitive play, every role is equally as important. Up to even page 1 MMR games however, your mid and carry better be at a certain baseline, or you're pretty much screwed. Big reason for this is that mistakes are not capitalized early on by lots of players, and as such, almost all pubs get dragged into mid to late game situations. I'm not saying anything about what my opinion on the matter is. I'm saying that we should not have this discussion again. Why because people gets mad that I say support players get completely minimized in pubs? That's not being offensive, that's just a fact. Up to even the highest 'pub' levels (even in IXDL, ICCUP, and other various IHLs) support players are not as important as your "skill" positions (that's a bad word for it, but not sure how to describe it any other way). It doesn't matter if you keep up wards/stack/control carry lane/etc. if your 1/2/3 positions aren't fundamentally solid enough to capitalize on what you are doing as a support player. Who cares if I zone the guy out the lane completely if my carry player can't even control the lane properly. When support heroes run over games, it's because they aren't being played as a support hero anymore. They are being played as a semi-carry more often than not. That Lion running around with Necro 3/Blink/Hex isn't a support hero. Same with the WD with Aghs/BKB and other nonsensical items.
Lol, this guy is awesome. It's like he could rant and rave at a brickwall and pretend that there's a discussion going on...
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Why do people even care about commends. That coaching system or whatever isn't probably gonna be released by 2015 if ever.
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On September 23 2013 09:32 trinxified wrote:
Well it's annoying that when you do a good job at supporting but then still get the blame when your carry player doesn't do well. Nice way to get an escape goat.
The usual pub-sense. When your team wins, the carry player will ask, "commend plz" because they wrecked the enemy as if they did it on their own. When you lose, the carry player will say, "no wards gg or support feeder", while really there are wards but they got no map awareness and also you died for them because they are careless.
Don't let the goat get away!
It's just 'scapegoat' 
How many people actually use the commend system? I think I've commended literally two players in a few hundred games.
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On September 23 2013 09:32 trinxified wrote:
Well it's annoying that when you do a good job at supporting but then still get the blame when your carry player doesn't do well. Nice way to get an escape goat.
The usual pub-sense. When your team wins, the carry player will ask, "commend plz" because they wrecked the enemy as if they did it on their own. When you lose, the carry player will say, "no wards gg or support feeder", while really there are wards but they got no map awareness and also you died for them because they are careless.
I don't even remember the last time I've seen a "commend plz" actually. The first few months after commends were implemented it was everywhere, but now, nothing.
Btw, when people try out for teams, look for new players etc, what's the hardest role to fill? The most important role to find a good player on? The most demanding role?
What are your guys experiences with this in amateur tmm games?
I am actually very curious about this.
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On September 23 2013 09:58 Najda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 09:32 trinxified wrote:
Well it's annoying that when you do a good job at supporting but then still get the blame when your carry player doesn't do well. Nice way to get an escape goat.
The usual pub-sense. When your team wins, the carry player will ask, "commend plz" because they wrecked the enemy as if they did it on their own. When you lose, the carry player will say, "no wards gg or support feeder", while really there are wards but they got no map awareness and also you died for them because they are careless. Don't let the goat get away! It's just 'scapegoat' How many people actually use the commend system? I think I've commended literally two players in a few hundred games.
I use it when someone does something particularly awesome.
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On September 23 2013 10:12 Daaktard wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 09:32 trinxified wrote:
Well it's annoying that when you do a good job at supporting but then still get the blame when your carry player doesn't do well. Nice way to get an escape goat.
The usual pub-sense. When your team wins, the carry player will ask, "commend plz" because they wrecked the enemy as if they did it on their own. When you lose, the carry player will say, "no wards gg or support feeder", while really there are wards but they got no map awareness and also you died for them because they are careless. I don't even remember the last time I've seen a "commend plz" actually. The first few months after commends were implemented it was everywhere, but now, nothing. Btw, when people try out for teams, look for new players etc, what's the hardest role to fill? The most important role to find a good player on? The most demanding role? What are your guys experiences with this in amateur tmm games? I am actually very curious about this.
Its pretty fun.
Not much more than that, but its a good time.
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EPT
