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On September 10 2013 05:50 Gheizen64 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 05:05 TheYango wrote:On September 10 2013 05:00 BlitzerSC wrote:
I would make OD start with zero armor tbh. Revert the buff to Astral's Int steal. OD was already like top 3 solo laners in the game before that change, the change did nothing other than make his 1v1 unnecessarily oppressive. It affected his overall strength quite minimally but just made a specific aspect of the hero a lot more painful to deal with. Or you could buff some counters to him, like giving Viper +8 base int, a change that would do absolutely nothing aside from making him much better against OD (and an even better Meka carrier for all those ppl that stil go vanguard on him  )
The issue with OD is how annoying it is to play against it on the vast majority of mid heroes, buffing the ones that do well against him just make the situation worse, it will mean counter picking is far more important.
I'm not even sure how much that change would matter in the match up.
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He just left a few seconds before calling the GG.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
On September 10 2013 05:53 Kuroeeah wrote:VP vs 4FC + Show Spoiler +Did light of heaven really rage quit or is reddit going overboard witch hunting mode again?
From what I've heard he really did.
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On September 10 2013 05:48 Kuroeeah wrote:
Valve deciding which bugs to fix or not is apparently as significant as a major balance patch from Icefrog.
Well, I would be surprised if IceFrog wasn't involved in those decisions anyway. I do believe he does a lot of thinking of wether a Dota 2 change should remain as it is or be reverted, plenty of them were ported to Dota 1 in the end.
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On September 10 2013 05:48 Kuroeeah wrote:
Valve deciding which bugs to fix or not is apparently as significant as a major balance patch from Icefrog.
It's hard to maintain parity while fixing some of the bugs. The intended changes list could stand to grow a lot longer as far as I'm concerned though.
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On September 10 2013 05:55 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 05:53 Kuroeeah wrote:VP vs 4FC + Show Spoiler +Did light of heaven really rage quit or is reddit going overboard witch hunting mode again? From what I've heard he really did.
At least they aren't call for him to retire or talking about disrespect. Mostly it just seems like "Yo, this guy is totally imploding on himself. What the fuck is up with him!?"
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United States47024 Posts
The issues with Astral's mana steal are actually hard to fix because they go back to a systemic issue of where DotA 2 doesn't distinguish base and bonus stats at all and almost all cases that do work in DotA 2 right now were set up on a case-by-case basis (Armlet, Morph, etc.). The most basic consequence of this is how leveling up doesn't add base Str/Int, meaning you don't get the full 19 HP/Str or 13 Mana/Int, meaning that you don't get those clutch plays where leveling up off the counter-kill gives you just enough HP/Mana to survive.
On September 10 2013 05:57 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 05:48 Kuroeeah wrote:
Valve deciding which bugs to fix or not is apparently as significant as a major balance patch from Icefrog. Well, I would be surprised if IceFrog wasn't involved in those decisions anyway. I do believe he does a lot of thinking of wether a Dota 2 change should remain as it is or be reverted, plenty of them were ported to Dota 1 in the end.
In this case, he CAN'T actually port base/bonus stat mechanics back to DotA 1 because they are inherent to how the WC3 engine functions. So either Valve will fix it eventually or they will remain different between the two games indefinitely.
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On September 10 2013 05:58 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 05:55 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 10 2013 05:53 Kuroeeah wrote:VP vs 4FC + Show Spoiler +Did light of heaven really rage quit or is reddit going overboard witch hunting mode again? From what I've heard he really did. At least they aren't call for him to retire or talking about disrespect. Mostly it just seems like "Yo, this guy is totally imploding on himself. What the fuck is up with him!?"
I'm reading in the same thread on how Godkillthemall is some bad noob and should be kicked.
Yeah, not really going to take much stock in it.
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On September 10 2013 06:00 TheYango wrote:The issues with Astral's mana steal are actually hard to fix because they go back to a systemic issue of where DotA 2 doesn't distinguish base and bonus stats at all and almost all cases that do work in DotA 2 right now were set up on a case-by-case basis (Armlet, Morph, etc.). The most basic consequence of this is how leveling up doesn't add base Str/Int, meaning you don't get the full 19 HP/Str or 13 Mana/Int, meaning that you don't get those clutch plays where leveling up off the counter-kill gives you just enough HP/Mana to survive. Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 05:57 SKC wrote:On September 10 2013 05:48 Kuroeeah wrote:
Valve deciding which bugs to fix or not is apparently as significant as a major balance patch from Icefrog. Well, I would be surprised if IceFrog wasn't involved in those decisions anyway. I do believe he does a lot of thinking of wether a Dota 2 change should remain as it is or be reverted, plenty of them were ported to Dota 1 in the end. In this case, he CAN'T actually port base/bonus stat mechanics back to DotA 1 because they are inherent to how the WC3 engine functions. So either Valve will fix it eventually or they will remain different between the two games indefinitely.
there are some intended changes in dota2, like trees
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On September 10 2013 06:11 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 06:00 TheYango wrote:The issues with Astral's mana steal are actually hard to fix because they go back to a systemic issue of where DotA 2 doesn't distinguish base and bonus stats at all and almost all cases that do work in DotA 2 right now were set up on a case-by-case basis (Armlet, Morph, etc.). The most basic consequence of this is how leveling up doesn't add base Str/Int, meaning you don't get the full 19 HP/Str or 13 Mana/Int, meaning that you don't get those clutch plays where leveling up off the counter-kill gives you just enough HP/Mana to survive. On September 10 2013 05:57 SKC wrote:On September 10 2013 05:48 Kuroeeah wrote:
Valve deciding which bugs to fix or not is apparently as significant as a major balance patch from Icefrog. Well, I would be surprised if IceFrog wasn't involved in those decisions anyway. I do believe he does a lot of thinking of wether a Dota 2 change should remain as it is or be reverted, plenty of them were ported to Dota 1 in the end. In this case, he CAN'T actually port base/bonus stat mechanics back to DotA 1 because they are inherent to how the WC3 engine functions. So either Valve will fix it eventually or they will remain different between the two games indefinitely. there are some intended changes in dota2, like trees
There are quite a bit of them, some more meaningful than others. Some unintended ones that are also a pretty big deal and are probally going to stay, just because of how the engine handles some spells, for example.
I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't something they are actively trying to fix.
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Finally got one of those people who start the match with "I'm so stoned lol"
The game was...interesting
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On September 10 2013 05:54 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 05:50 Gheizen64 wrote:On September 10 2013 05:05 TheYango wrote:On September 10 2013 05:00 BlitzerSC wrote:
I would make OD start with zero armor tbh. Revert the buff to Astral's Int steal. OD was already like top 3 solo laners in the game before that change, the change did nothing other than make his 1v1 unnecessarily oppressive. It affected his overall strength quite minimally but just made a specific aspect of the hero a lot more painful to deal with. Or you could buff some counters to him, like giving Viper +8 base int, a change that would do absolutely nothing aside from making him much better against OD (and an even better Meka carrier for all those ppl that stil go vanguard on him ) The issue with OD is how annoying it is to play against it on the vast majority of mid heroes, buffing the ones that do well against him just make the situation worse, it will mean counter picking is far more important. I'm not even sure how much that change would matter in the match up.
It would mean that to effectively running it you'd have to pick him later as a last-pick, or you'd risk just get counterpicked since you can't ban everything, kka, razor, Viper Sylla etc...
As it is now, people just ban Razor and Sylla anyway, and Kka and Viper aren't good enough to prevent him for being annoying and picked often.
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On September 10 2013 06:35 Gheizen64 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 05:54 SKC wrote:On September 10 2013 05:50 Gheizen64 wrote:On September 10 2013 05:05 TheYango wrote:On September 10 2013 05:00 BlitzerSC wrote:
I would make OD start with zero armor tbh. Revert the buff to Astral's Int steal. OD was already like top 3 solo laners in the game before that change, the change did nothing other than make his 1v1 unnecessarily oppressive. It affected his overall strength quite minimally but just made a specific aspect of the hero a lot more painful to deal with. Or you could buff some counters to him, like giving Viper +8 base int, a change that would do absolutely nothing aside from making him much better against OD (and an even better Meka carrier for all those ppl that stil go vanguard on him ) The issue with OD is how annoying it is to play against it on the vast majority of mid heroes, buffing the ones that do well against him just make the situation worse, it will mean counter picking is far more important. I'm not even sure how much that change would matter in the match up. It would mean that to effectively running it you'd have to pick him later as a last-pick, or you'd risk just get counterpicked since you can't ban everything, kka, razor, Viper Sylla etc... As it is now, people just ban Razor and Sylla anyway, and Kka and Viper aren't good enough to prevent him for being annoying and picked often.
lone druid gets banned often?
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On September 10 2013 06:40 Kuroeeah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 06:35 Gheizen64 wrote:On September 10 2013 05:54 SKC wrote:On September 10 2013 05:50 Gheizen64 wrote:On September 10 2013 05:05 TheYango wrote:On September 10 2013 05:00 BlitzerSC wrote:
I would make OD start with zero armor tbh. Revert the buff to Astral's Int steal. OD was already like top 3 solo laners in the game before that change, the change did nothing other than make his 1v1 unnecessarily oppressive. It affected his overall strength quite minimally but just made a specific aspect of the hero a lot more painful to deal with. Or you could buff some counters to him, like giving Viper +8 base int, a change that would do absolutely nothing aside from making him much better against OD (and an even better Meka carrier for all those ppl that stil go vanguard on him ) The issue with OD is how annoying it is to play against it on the vast majority of mid heroes, buffing the ones that do well against him just make the situation worse, it will mean counter picking is far more important. I'm not even sure how much that change would matter in the match up. It would mean that to effectively running it you'd have to pick him later as a last-pick, or you'd risk just get counterpicked since you can't ban everything, kka, razor, Viper Sylla etc... As it is now, people just ban Razor and Sylla anyway, and Kka and Viper aren't good enough to prevent him for being annoying and picked often. lone druid gets banned often?
If people get OD usually Sylla's banned yeah. But honestly i have seen nothing since TI3 basically, only some inhouse leagues.
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On September 10 2013 06:35 Gheizen64 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 05:54 SKC wrote:On September 10 2013 05:50 Gheizen64 wrote:On September 10 2013 05:05 TheYango wrote:On September 10 2013 05:00 BlitzerSC wrote:
I would make OD start with zero armor tbh. Revert the buff to Astral's Int steal. OD was already like top 3 solo laners in the game before that change, the change did nothing other than make his 1v1 unnecessarily oppressive. It affected his overall strength quite minimally but just made a specific aspect of the hero a lot more painful to deal with. Or you could buff some counters to him, like giving Viper +8 base int, a change that would do absolutely nothing aside from making him much better against OD (and an even better Meka carrier for all those ppl that stil go vanguard on him ) The issue with OD is how annoying it is to play against it on the vast majority of mid heroes, buffing the ones that do well against him just make the situation worse, it will mean counter picking is far more important. I'm not even sure how much that change would matter in the match up. It would mean that to effectively running it you'd have to pick him later as a last-pick, or you'd risk just get counterpicked since you can't ban everything, kka, razor, Viper Sylla etc... As it is now, people just ban Razor and Sylla anyway, and Kka and Viper aren't good enough to prevent him for being annoying and picked often.
It would also mean that you would still have to worry about him if you picked a mid that isn't Viper or Kunkka or whoever gets buffed before last pick. Which creates a situation like in TI3 where he is a very common ban but he doesn't do that well when picked. He is just very annoying to deal with when drafting.
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On September 10 2013 06:47 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 06:35 Gheizen64 wrote:On September 10 2013 05:54 SKC wrote:On September 10 2013 05:50 Gheizen64 wrote:On September 10 2013 05:05 TheYango wrote:On September 10 2013 05:00 BlitzerSC wrote:
I would make OD start with zero armor tbh. Revert the buff to Astral's Int steal. OD was already like top 3 solo laners in the game before that change, the change did nothing other than make his 1v1 unnecessarily oppressive. It affected his overall strength quite minimally but just made a specific aspect of the hero a lot more painful to deal with. Or you could buff some counters to him, like giving Viper +8 base int, a change that would do absolutely nothing aside from making him much better against OD (and an even better Meka carrier for all those ppl that stil go vanguard on him ) The issue with OD is how annoying it is to play against it on the vast majority of mid heroes, buffing the ones that do well against him just make the situation worse, it will mean counter picking is far more important. I'm not even sure how much that change would matter in the match up. It would mean that to effectively running it you'd have to pick him later as a last-pick, or you'd risk just get counterpicked since you can't ban everything, kka, razor, Viper Sylla etc... As it is now, people just ban Razor and Sylla anyway, and Kka and Viper aren't good enough to prevent him for being annoying and picked often. It would also mean that you would still have to worry about him if you picked a mid that isn't Viper or Kunkka or whoever gets buffed before last pick. Which creates a situation like in TI3 where he is a very common ban but he doesn't do that well when picked. He is just very annoying to deal with when drafting.
Basically:
you pick your mid early on: ban OD
your mid player is versatile and you keep mid pick for last: don't ban OD
your enemy has already picked mid: don't ban OD
Like now there's also the variant:
your mid player is versatile and you can keep mid pick for later but enemy has banned Razor/Sylla: ban OD
Dunno still seems an improvement to me. I agree that OD is obnoxious right now, but he could very well just leave the meta if you had more counters as viable picks, like Razor and Bane slightly decreased Naix presence.
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In the end he will probably get fixed in term of base int/bonus int and returning INT interaction and he will feel so much more manageable again, if not downright disappear .
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I think the od problem is vastly overrated. Heroes like DK, Kunka, SF, Razor do really well against him. OD has zero mobilty, so you can just gank the sidelanes and there isn't much he can do about.
In public games he isn't an issue either (win rate 49,55) so as balanced as can be.
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On September 10 2013 06:57 SKC wrote:
You can also pick Lion.
^not sure if srs
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EPT
