EPTIf you agree with the rest, I retract that statement :D In fact I edited it before reading your post, knowing that people would only react to that.
General Discussion - Page 382
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
If you agree with the rest, I retract that statement :D In fact I edited it before reading your post, knowing that people would only react to that. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:17 MrCon wrote: Well that was just my guess, no need to be that aggressive >< What you say is true, even if most applies in dragon form only. His cooldowns are short, but with a mana pool of 500 at level 16 he can barely use his spells twice. I know he's strong all around, but he also has weaknesses which perhaps explain why he isn't picked more. Or people just ignore it without reason, which is also possible. And if your carry has to go pipe he's not really your carry. He doesn't have to go pipe, he goes it because the team wants to peak in mid game. Who better to get up an expensive item fast then a person that you are giving farm? People's concept of a carry is far too limited. A carry isn't someone that can farm all game long then 1v5 the time. Also mana issues generally get solved with either your teams help or something like a soulring. | ||
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
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Percutio
United States1672 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:15 Numy wrote: I get that you are saying the spell is more efficient if the armour doesn't drop below zero. It's just that we aren't worried about -armour efficiency. The spell is not the object of this, it's the hero. It doesn't matter the change of "EHP" it's the absolute "EHP" which is what is important to us. I would say this, if you can reduce the armor of someone like DK to right about near 0 you get full effect and he will take a huge amount of extra damage, but he still has lots of overall HP. On the flip side if you reduce the armor of someone like Doom who has 0 armor, you might get diminishing returns but you do more damage to him because his HP is going to be so low that it is worth it. I guess the best logic here is don't stack armor debuffs because eventually the efficiency gets bad and only the high armor targets will still be getting hurt badly by it. I still think it is highly effective against DK because his high armor and armor passive are a big part of his tankiness and make him hard to kill. When you remove that he suffers. It is similar logic to shutting down the other survivability methods of heroes like mobility, invisibility, ect. | ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:21 Percutio wrote: I would say this, if you can reduce the armor of someone like DK to right about near 0 you get full effect and he will take a huge amount of extra damage, but he still has lots of overall HP. On the flip side if you reduce the armor of someone like Doom who has 0 armor, you might get diminishing returns but you do more damage to him because his HP is going to be so low. I guess the best logic here is don't stack armor debuffs because eventually the efficiency gets bad and only the high armor targets will still be getting hurt badly by it. This has gotten so far away from the actual discussion of DK. Slardar is a common pick in Chinese/SEA play as well. But people don't just insta-pick Slardar the moment DK hits the pick-list. It's not nearly that simple to counter DK. | ||
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:21 Percutio wrote: I would say this, if you can reduce the armor of someone like DK to right about near 0 you get full effect and he will take a huge amount of extra damage, but he still has lots of overall HP. On the flip side if you reduce the armor of someone like Doom who has 0 armor, you might get diminishing returns but you do more damage to him because his HP is going to be so low. I guess the best logic here is don't stack armor debuffs because eventually the efficiency gets bad and only the high armor targets will still be getting hurt badly by it. but even if its less effective, if you have -12 armor physical atacks hurt, a lot ! | ||
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Percutio
United States1672 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:24 TheYango wrote: This has gotten so far away from the actual discussion of DK. Slardar is a common pick in Chinese/SEA play as well. But people don't just insta-pick Slardar the moment DK hits the pick-list. It's not nearly that simple to counter DK. In my first post I tried to convey that while he has things that are very effective against him, he still is strong and isn't something you generally have to counter or even should attempt to. I guess that is the strength of versatile heroes in general. | ||
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scorch-
United States816 Posts
On April 13 2012 00:38 Percutio wrote:Also -armor is more efficient the closer to 0 you get it, so with DK's high armor and that being one of his strengths I find it is particularly effective. This makes no sense whatsoever. | ||
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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eqez
Sweden837 Posts
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
Which means, armor reduction is equally effective regardless of armor. EHP granted by armor is contrary to popular belief linear. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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ilovelings
Argentina776 Posts
DK is an excelent mid game carry and a very safe pick in general. Both are great picks if you want to make the other team's life more complicated but they don't respond to a specific strategy. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66366 Posts
On April 13 2012 00:34 Kiante wrote: =.= kona.....cant believe you'd waste a key making a smurf account. is stomping noobies really that important? the games are in the end unsatisfying compared to winning a game against people your own level, and you denied another person getting into the beta. should've done what i did with my spare key, i was in a dota stream chat, and i was like, "if someone can prove to me that they play dota 1 actively right now i'll give you a key" some guy ss'd himself logged into his playdota.eu account and linked me to the stats showing him playing 5+ games a day, gave him the key gg no re. a person who's been hanging out for a key and not getting any luck gets one and you get to feel good about yourself for a few minutes i was on a low priority queue and really wanted to play some games  ]also, because there is the discussion: i feel that DK is so much more helpful in the current metagame of pushes and mid-game oriented gameplay DK doesn't need much items tbh, most of the "core" early requisites are already covered by dragon blood, while having that insane melee/ranged stun and aoe nuke helps out so much with push, antipush and teamfight at any stage in the game. having a vlads or even a pers can allow the dk to just stay in his lane and farm forever while tping whenever necessary. | ||
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ChrisXIV
Austria3553 Posts
...against 104 losses. Oh well. Played the worst Sand King game of my life, but thankfully my team was extremely good and we won without losing a single tower. | ||
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Percutio
United States1672 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:51 Numy wrote: Is EHP not based around physical resistance since this wiki, http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Armor implies that armour reduction past 0 has a non-linear effect on "damage increase" which I assume is the inverse of "damage reduction ". If the relationship between armour and reduction changes does not the relationship between armour and EHP change? I can't answer this specifically but I remember there being two different equations used to calculate damage. If you can find those that would explain this better. | ||
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Pseudoku
Canada1279 Posts
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Slardar
Canada7596 Posts
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