EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 3752
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Grettin
42416 Posts
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DeltaX
United States287 Posts
On August 30 2013 22:08 Plansix wrote: Ok, so I have been working on my mid play, specifically with ganking characters like Puck. I have been having real luck in my games with everyone except for Storm Spirit. For some reason I cannot get him off the ground and to the sweet spot in farming. I constantly run out of mana or just do not do enough damage. What is a good, standard item progression people like for him through a match? I can’t really find a guide that doesn’t just tell me to buy Bloodstone every game. I know Bloodstone is good for SS, but if I am having trouble farming early, I don't think I will get it fast enough. I think the 2 main storm builds are treads/bottle into orchid and arcane/bottle into bloodstone. I personally like the first one, but both are quite snowbally builds. If you have a bad start, storm really is not very effective later on no matter what you build as he just ends up too squishy. If you are behind, a bkb for team fights may be the best bet so that you at least don't die in 2 seconds, but it provides no regen, so farming is harder. I find the orchid build better overall as it gives more regen sooner from buying the two sobi masks asap and the oblivion staffs and treads give damage and attack speed. You can always go back for a bloodstone as a second item for more tank or something else too. Bloodstone just gives mana/hp which is nice, but provides little damage and can start sucking if you start dying right when you get it. | ||
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BlitzerSC
Italy8800 Posts
On August 30 2013 22:08 Plansix wrote: Ok, so I have been working on my mid play, specifically with ganking characters like Puck. I have been having real luck in my games with everyone except for Storm Spirit. For some reason I cannot get him off the ground and to the sweet spot in farming. I constantly run out of mana or just do not do enough damage. What is a good, standard item progression people like for him through a match? I can’t really find a guide that doesn’t just tell me to buy Bloodstone every game. I know Bloodstone is good for SS, but if I am having trouble farming early, I don't think I will get it fast enough. Bro tip: Don't always start your combo with electric vortex, try to delay its usage as much as possible instead because it drains a ton of mana and it's not always necessary to kill. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 30 2013 22:49 BlitzerSC wrote: Bro tip: Don't always start your combo with electric vortex, try to delay its usage as much as possible instead because it drains a ton of mana and it's not always necessary to kill. That is helpful, I haven't done the math on those mana costs. I guess slow from the auto attack might be enough. Maybe I just need to go into a custom game with a buddy and practice the combo over and over with him trying to escape. On August 30 2013 22:34 DeltaX wrote: I think the 2 main storm builds are treads/bottle into orchid and arcane/bottle into bloodstone. I personally like the first one, but both are quite snowbally builds. If you have a bad start, storm really is not very effective later on no matter what you build as he just ends up too squishy. If you are behind, a bkb for team fights may be the best bet so that you at least don't die in 2 seconds, but it provides no regen, so farming is harder. I find the orchid build better overall as it gives more regen sooner from buying the two sobi masks asap and the oblivion staffs and treads give damage and attack speed. You can always go back for a bloodstone as a second item for more tank or something else too. Bloodstone just gives mana/hp which is nice, but provides little damage and can start sucking if you start dying right when you get it. I will have to try that one. It does seem better and I find mana boots on Storm Spirit to be extra useless. They provide so little mana for what he needs. They are fine on a support that is only going to go through one round of spells in a team fight, but with storm, he is just dumping spells until he is out. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On August 30 2013 14:24 FinestHour wrote: deward radiant side has 2 spots to get every ward the little dent in the ground to the upper right of ward in ur first pic then the chunk of rock above ur second one neither of those spots will block camps if camp doenst spawn then the ward is hidden in the trees Didn't see anyone else answer this but afaik 2 sentries don't cover all possible block spots anymore since the vision got reduced. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
Whenever there's threads whining about things that have been discussed for a year I always look at the persons account and see what their post history is like to see if they come from another game. And the past like week, the subreddit is filled with whine which would have usually not gotten any traction and I happened to stumble on one yesterday when it was just created and it had a really inflated vote count for a negative discussion topic. And the thing about these, is that they're being made by 0 post accounts. http://www.reddit.com/user/SlantedJohn http://www.reddit.com/user/creator1 http://www.reddit.com/user/PrintPhone http://www.reddit.com/user/Dashaunn Yes, I get bored easily, but I can't help but notice the pattern. Or maybe I just worry that every day this community reminds me more of the SC2 community. It seems since TI3 things have been going downhill quite rapidly. To a degree here on TL as well. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
Not a coincidence. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 30 2013 23:35 teapoted wrote: I think the Dota subreddit is being gamed quite heavily. Whenever there's threads whining about things that have been discussed for a year I always look at the persons account and see what their post history is like to see if they come from another game. And the past like week, the subreddit is filled with whine which would have usually not gotten any traction and I happened to stumble on one yesterday when it was just created and it had a really inflated vote count for a negative discussion topic. And the thing about these, is that they're being made by 0 post accounts. http://www.reddit.com/user/SlantedJohn http://www.reddit.com/user/creator1 http://www.reddit.com/user/PrintPhone http://www.reddit.com/user/Dashaunn Yes, I get bored easily, but I can't help but notice the pattern. Or maybe I just worry that every day this community reminds me more of the SC2 community. It seems since TI3 things have been going downhill quite rapidly. To a degree here on TL as well. Yeah, well that is the nature of the internet, sadly. You find(or create) a group people that agree with your point of view and then use that as proof that you are correct. Every single balance whine in SC2 follows this pattern. Lucky for us, the Dota 2 community has SC2 too look at as a model how whiners can ruin a game. Also, IceFrog gives no fucks, which is the way I want all my designers to be. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
Yeah, well that is the nature of the internet, sadly. You find(or create) a group people that agree with your point of view and then use that as proof that you are correct. Every single balance whine in SC2 follows this pattern. Lucky for us, the Dota 2 community has SC2 too look at as a model how whiners can ruin a game. Well I'm not really worried about Dota as a game, but all the communities are incestuous to a degree. And if the direction the reddit is going, and the LR of TI3 is any indication (if you missed it, the LR of TI3 was basically: Chinese teams so boring, Split pushing is dishonourable they deserve to lose, People who wear hats should kill themselves), then this community will be at least as bad in 6 months, at least.Also, IceFrog gives no fucks, which is the way I want all my designers to be. And I think these (what I believe to be) gamed posts constantly whining about the same things, with people not thinking as critically about it as we did a year ago as there is two sides to the issue, goes a long way to just make it the norm. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On August 30 2013 23:58 teapoted wrote: Well I'm not really worried about Dota as a game, but all the communities are incestuous to a degree. And if the direction the reddit is going, and the LR of TI3 is any indication (if you missed it, the LR of TI3 was basically: Chinese teams so boring, Split pushing is dishonourable they deserve to lose, People who wear hats should kill themselves), then this community will be at least as bad in 6 months, at least. And I think these (what I believe to be) gamed posts constantly whining about the same things, with people not thinking as critically about it as we did a year ago as there is two sides to the issue, goes a long way to just make it the norm. Agreed. Pretty sad that the bigger the community gets, it tends to lead to worse posting quality / discussions (even the stupid discussions like treant builds are less fun). Oh well, that's what #tl.dota2 is for. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
But you are right that is something we should be aware of. How people view the game an community is very important and constant negativity is very bad, even if some of the complains are justified. Also, the balance whines will go away if they don't gain traction and Valve does not respond. As long as you don't feed the troll, it generally don't not grow strong. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On August 31 2013 00:14 teapoted wrote: Well maybe there's some hope for TL at least because it is actively moderated and rules can be changed if they identify it as a problem. We will have to see how things are come the big tournaments again. I think the reddit is pretty much already gone, I've even talked to moderators from it and they're not happy with what it's become but it's far too late for them to make serious rule changes. I don't know, when SC:BW -> SC2 with a much larger poster basis, I think the overall quality of posting decreased rather substantially. But there is no hope for reddit. | ||
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SpiZe
Canada3640 Posts
On August 30 2013 14:07 Daumen wrote: + Show Spoiler + Hey guys, i have a little problem, I cant figure out the exact space that needs to be clear for Neutral Camps to spawn. I am often scared that when I counterward my pullspot that I actually block my own camp. For example: Is it safe to counter ward above the treeline of the Radiant Pullspot? Will I block the Pullcamp or the Camp above it? ive been looking for a Picture that lines them out but no luck so far ;< Edit: Obviously I want to figure out a Counter-Ward spot so that I can find the Counterward, wether its on the left/right side or in the middle of the camp. Edit2: For example, is there a way to set a Counter-Ward to see THESE 2 Wards without blocking a Camp of your own? (The first pic apparently shows a Wardspot that blocks BOTH the marked and the pullcamp. ![[image loading]](http://www.team-dignitas.net/uploads/tinymce/images/dotawardguide_34a.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.team-dignitas.net/uploads/tinymce/images/dotawardguide_36a.jpg) http://www.playdota.com/mechanics/neutralcreeps Even if it's WC3 DotA, it's still very useful know where you can deward safely, the map is pretty similar so it translates pretty easily to dota2. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Or at least, I hope so. On August 31 2013 00:20 Comeh wrote: I don't know, when SC:BW -> SC2 with a much larger poster basis, I think the overall quality of posting decreased rather substantially. But there is no hope for reddit. The existence of BW as a point of reference for all whiners gave them so much unearned credibility that it is almost impossible to argue against them. You can always tell when the whiners have lost the argument and have nothing else to say when they start using BW, defenders advantage, positional play and hating on warpgate as the focus of their arguments. I swear some of them have a shared google.doc they all use and update with the same arguments. | ||
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trifecta
United States6795 Posts
On August 31 2013 00:20 Comeh wrote: I don't know, when SC:BW -> SC2 with a much larger poster basis, I think the overall quality of posting decreased rather substantially. But there is no hope for reddit. it's a combination of a massive increase in community size (pretty much guaranteeing post quality average will go down) + people without any bw background. The term "bw elitist" really turned me off from reading the sc2 forums. The dota 1 -> 2 transition seems smoother because they are basically the same game and many who play 2 have played and/or watched dota 1. | ||
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EmilA
Denmark4618 Posts
On August 30 2013 23:09 Plansix wrote: That is helpful, I haven't done the math on those mana costs. I guess slow from the auto attack might be enough. Maybe I just need to go into a custom game with a buddy and practice the combo over and over with him trying to escape. I will have to try that one. It does seem better and I find mana boots on Storm Spirit to be extra useless. They provide so little mana for what he needs. They are fine on a support that is only going to go through one round of spells in a team fight, but with storm, he is just dumping spells until he is out. I learned a lot by watching the gentle god EE-sama. The past few days he has been playing storm spirit exclusively. I've always felt like you did. Now E-God has inspired me http://dotabuff.com/players/122305951/matches (alt account of course, mmr is about page 5-6 when solo.) I agree with the guy you quoted. Those are the two builds currently available (though bkb first can be situationally needed) and I really, really prefer going; 2xbranch+tango -> bottle -> boots+wand->orchid and then hex/linkens. Common mistakes are going back to base every time you're oom and jumping too far. If you just tp out, use all mana to net a kill and go back you'll fall behind on XP and farm and be a non-factor later. You really NEED to extend your build into a hex in reasonable time. If you're radiant it can be really useful to stack the small camp and clear it when lane is unsafe (like when you're playing SF.) | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 31 2013 00:25 SpiZe wrote: http://www.playdota.com/mechanics/neutralcreeps Even if it's WC3 DotA, it's still very useful know where you can deward safely, the map is pretty similar so it translates pretty easily to dota2. As far as I'm aware there's only one major inconsistency between that map and DotA 2--the Radiant medium camp that's by the rune has a spawn box in DotA 1 extends a little bit into the river, but in DotA 2 the spawn box is cut off so as to not be blockable from the river. | ||
dfs
Russian Federation4050 Posts
On August 31 2013 00:36 TheYango wrote: As far as I'm aware there's only one major inconsistency between that map and DotA 2--the Radiant medium camp that's by the rune has a spawn box in DotA 1 extends a little bit into the river, but in DotA 2 the spawn box is cut off so as to not be blockable from the river. Here is the Dota 2 Neutral Camps map for reference. http://s44.radikal.ru/i104/1308/62/ea33dc690be1.jpg (4mb image) | ||
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