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United States47024 Posts
On August 23 2013 04:32 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 04:30 FuzzyJAM wrote:On August 23 2013 04:00 TheYango wrote:On August 23 2013 03:47 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Playing properly is being an "asshole"?
If someone can't have fun being a space creator then that's on them. Not every team has to be picked as 4 protects 1. Not every hard carry has to be built with farming items. These are deliberate decisions you make going into a game that are not more or less correct than the alternatives. Yes it's being selfish to pick heroes/choose items in a way where you expect the 4 other players to play around you the whole game (e.g. picking an AM when a Gyro or CK were totally acceptable for your teamcomp). Of course it's not always best to play 4p1. Sometimes it is, however, and sometimes it's one of a variety of possible choices. Every pick forces the team to play in a certain way. It's not selfish, it's just the way the game works. I don't see any sort of logic behind saying people should play things your specific way or else they're an asshole. That's just silly. If you can't deal with playing with teammates who want to play a different style to you then play in a stack. They don't owe it to you to play your kind of Dota any more than you owe it to them. So by that note, they don't owe you anything and if they don't want to make space for you to farm, you need to deal with it and pick a different build, buckle down and get in some man fights over towers.
Pretty much--usually the strategy of dual roaming/aggressive tri to put the other lanes ahead or otherwise doing anything other than babying the carry for absolute freefarm results in the carry bitching and yelling that you should be reported.
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Funny anecdote: Last time I tried dual roaming supports we fed mid a triple kill at 1:30 and instantly lost the game LOL.
Actually carries who yell at me are usually just mad because they are misplaying so I mute them and continue and we still win a decent amount of the time.
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I'm not sure where people are playing pubs with solo queue, but for the most part, people will pick heroes as they please, regardless if it was 4-5 supports in one team, or 4-5 carries in one team. It's just how it works. And everyone wants to farm regardless of what hero they have. So it's almost like you're playing a game against your team mates as well.
It's those games where the 4 supports blame you for not having godly items as a carry when they themselves got good items from stealing farm from you... It's unbelievable.
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On August 23 2013 04:32 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 04:30 FuzzyJAM wrote:On August 23 2013 04:00 TheYango wrote:On August 23 2013 03:47 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Playing properly is being an "asshole"?
If someone can't have fun being a space creator then that's on them. Not every team has to be picked as 4 protects 1. Not every hard carry has to be built with farming items. These are deliberate decisions you make going into a game that are not more or less correct than the alternatives. Yes it's being selfish to pick heroes/choose items in a way where you expect the 4 other players to play around you the whole game (e.g. picking an AM when a Gyro or CK were totally acceptable for your teamcomp). Of course it's not always best to play 4p1. Sometimes it is, however, and sometimes it's one of a variety of possible choices. Every pick forces the team to play in a certain way. It's not selfish, it's just the way the game works. I don't see any sort of logic behind saying people should play things your specific way or else they're an asshole. That's just silly. If you can't deal with playing with teammates who want to play a different style to you then play in a stack. They don't owe it to you to play your kind of Dota any more than you owe it to them. So by that note, they don't owe you anything and if they don't want to make space for you to farm, you need to deal with it and pick a different build, buckle down and get in some man fights over towers.
Yeah, absolutely.
Of course, it can be that not doing any lane support or making space makes you [more likely to] lose the game, and I think that people have a responsibility to their teammates to do their best to win, so there's that to bear in mind.
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On August 23 2013 04:35 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 04:32 Plansix wrote:On August 23 2013 04:30 FuzzyJAM wrote:On August 23 2013 04:00 TheYango wrote:On August 23 2013 03:47 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Playing properly is being an "asshole"?
If someone can't have fun being a space creator then that's on them. Not every team has to be picked as 4 protects 1. Not every hard carry has to be built with farming items. These are deliberate decisions you make going into a game that are not more or less correct than the alternatives. Yes it's being selfish to pick heroes/choose items in a way where you expect the 4 other players to play around you the whole game (e.g. picking an AM when a Gyro or CK were totally acceptable for your teamcomp). Of course it's not always best to play 4p1. Sometimes it is, however, and sometimes it's one of a variety of possible choices. Every pick forces the team to play in a certain way. It's not selfish, it's just the way the game works. I don't see any sort of logic behind saying people should play things your specific way or else they're an asshole. That's just silly. If you can't deal with playing with teammates who want to play a different style to you then play in a stack. They don't owe it to you to play your kind of Dota any more than you owe it to them. So by that note, they don't owe you anything and if they don't want to make space for you to farm, you need to deal with it and pick a different build, buckle down and get in some man fights over towers. Pretty much--usually the strategy of dual roaming/aggressive tri to put the other lanes ahead or otherwise doing anything other than babying the carry for absolute freefarm results in the carry bitching and yelling that you should be reported.
Yeah, the term “playing properly” might as well be translated into “Do what I say, because I am not going to listen to you.”
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United States47024 Posts
On August 23 2013 04:41 trinxified wrote:
It's those games where the 4 supports blame you for not having godly items as a carry when they themselves got good items from stealing farm from you... It's unbelievable.
Which is exactly why in most games you have to turn to the 5th source of farm. If your team is taking farm by farming all 3 lanes and jungle, then it means that you have to kill enemy heroes of course to get enough farm for everyone. 
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On August 23 2013 04:33 Porkz wrote:New patch! http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=103333Show nested quote +Gameplay
- Fixed players' current gold being networked to enemy players.
- Fixed Spirit Breaker's charge target being networked to enemy players.
- Picking up an armlet that is toggled on will only grant the buff if you own the armlet.
- Autocast abilities check target type rules consistently. This should prevent Clinkz's searing arrows hitting wards, for example.
- Added Elder Titan, Abaddon, Centaur and Troll Warlord to Captain's Mode.
- Fixed Neutral Thunderhide not using Slam when 3 enemies are nearby.
- Fixed Neutral Thunderhide's Slam not slowing attack speed.
- Ancient Apparition: Frostbite debuff will prevent health gain from levelling up, extra strength or extra max hp.
- Slark: Fixed BKB not removing Pounce's Leash.
- Treant Protector: Fixed Overgrowth affecting couriers.
- Troll Warlord: Fixed Illusions benefiting from Fervor.
- Troll Warlord: Fixed ranged form sometimes being able to bash.
- Weaver's geminate ability no longer activates when attacking wards.
- Weaver's time lapse and Disruptor's glimpse now can rewind things back to before the ability was skilled.
UI
- Runes now draw in the minimap for spectators.
- Increased the penalty for not readying up from 45 seconds to 2 minutes.
- Spectator stats dropdown is unlocked while listening to broadcasters.
- Added a preference and cvar "dota_spectator_use_broadcaster_stats_panel" to allow spectators to have full control over the stats panels.
- Private (friend/guild) lobbies now display their game name so that those browsing lobbies can get more info on what the lobby is for.
- Changed drag-select of units to use the same hit detection as click-select. This fixes a number of issues where units would not get selected.
- Fixed bugs that were allowing edge panning to be enabled during drag-select.
- Reduced CPU usage of drag-select.
- Fixed some newline formatting errors in the combat log.
- Prevented guides for the previously-played hero from erroneously showing up at the start of the next game.
- Added AOE hover indicator for Death Pulse.
Economy
- Added Waldi courier, Ocula ward, 3 HUDs and 14 hero item sets to the store.
- Updated Sniper's workshop model files with improved weighting, including corrected smd files.
Audio
- Fixed bad interactions with some looping sounds and FoW.
- Fixed Reincarnate stinger sometimes playing late when triggered in vision but out of hearing range.
- Fixed some item cast sounds that could be heard through FoW.
- Typing "tu" in chat no longer triggers hero "thank you" lines.
Mac/Linux
- Fixed crash when using certain spells / illusions on Intel HD4000. [Mac]
- Fixed intermittent crash when cmd-tabbing. [Mac]
- Fixed issues with older PulseAudio installations. [Linux]
- Improved stability when showing webpages.
- Allow setting language of audio and text separately, through Steam. (Text comes from Steam's language, audio comes from the language set in Dota 2's properties on Steam)
- Made Dota2 respond to window manager requests to close it.
- Fixes to make Dota2 work on a broader set of video cards on Linux
- Fixed key repeat to work in text entry windows.
- Fixed loading screens to show an image instead of a black screen
- Fixed a bug preventing multiple users from playing Dota2 (at different times) on a machine.
- Fixed sounds not working when a matchmaking game is ready to start. Added a desktop notification on Linux
- Added XBox 360 spectating controller support.
- Fixed crash on hero selection screen on Linux.
- Fixed a rendering bug when turning off Specular in advanced video settings.
- Fixed mouse offset bug and window size/aspect ratio issue when moving from full screen to windowed modes.
No GLaDOS announcer yet  I want to give Valve my money
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On August 23 2013 04:42 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 04:32 Plansix wrote:On August 23 2013 04:30 FuzzyJAM wrote:On August 23 2013 04:00 TheYango wrote:On August 23 2013 03:47 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Playing properly is being an "asshole"?
If someone can't have fun being a space creator then that's on them. Not every team has to be picked as 4 protects 1. Not every hard carry has to be built with farming items. These are deliberate decisions you make going into a game that are not more or less correct than the alternatives. Yes it's being selfish to pick heroes/choose items in a way where you expect the 4 other players to play around you the whole game (e.g. picking an AM when a Gyro or CK were totally acceptable for your teamcomp). Of course it's not always best to play 4p1. Sometimes it is, however, and sometimes it's one of a variety of possible choices. Every pick forces the team to play in a certain way. It's not selfish, it's just the way the game works. I don't see any sort of logic behind saying people should play things your specific way or else they're an asshole. That's just silly. If you can't deal with playing with teammates who want to play a different style to you then play in a stack. They don't owe it to you to play your kind of Dota any more than you owe it to them. So by that note, they don't owe you anything and if they don't want to make space for you to farm, you need to deal with it and pick a different build, buckle down and get in some man fights over towers. Yeah, absolutely. Of course, it can be that not doing any lane support or making space makes you [more likely to] lose the game, and I think that people have a responsibility to their teammates to do their best to win, so there's that to bear in mind.
Right, so you’re responsible to adjust your build and get into the fights earlier, rather than farm for 40 minutes and expect me to cover for you. Glad we agree on that.
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On August 23 2013 04:46 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 04:41 trinxified wrote:
It's those games where the 4 supports blame you for not having godly items as a carry when they themselves got good items from stealing farm from you... It's unbelievable. Which is exactly why in most games you have to turn to the 5th source of farm. If your team is taking farm by farming all 3 lanes and jungle, then it means that you have to kill enemy heroes of course to get enough farm for everyone.
Well that's all good and all too but some heroes aren't built to kill enemy heroes that early. While the supports have good spells to clear lanes with, you are a carry who depends on last hitting per attack.
For example, a Rubick getting mad farm, has a bloodstone early, but then loses game 30 minutes in. Blames the carry for not having enough items and he farmed better. This is while he stole Magnus' shockwave constantly, and Lina's dragon slave for maximum farming lanes...
It's like this in pubs all the time. It's either "OH I HAVE MORE ITEMS THAN YOU", therefore I'm better than you, or "LOOK AT MY K:D RATIO, mine is better so fuck you."
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United States47024 Posts
On August 23 2013 04:42 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Yeah, absolutely.
Of course, it can be that not doing any lane support or making space makes you [more likely to] lose the game, and I think that people have a responsibility to their teammates to do their best to win, so there's that to bear in mind.
The thing to remember with pubs is that games are heavily driven by morale and emotions. A game where your team thinks you're losing can very quickly turn into one where you're actually losing because people start playing the blame game or giving up. Conversely, you can often snowball a game simply by getting kills/towers and generally doing things that make the enemy believe that they are behind even if you did not trade that effectively (e.g. your carry came to fights and gave up farm) because the perception of losing will make them start bickering and giving up.
This is part of the effectiveness of fighting carries and the ineffectiveness of farming carries in pubs. Being in fights and getting a big kill lead contributes to making the enemy play worse even if its not a legitimate gameplay advantage.
On August 23 2013 04:49 trinxified wrote:
Well that's all good and all too but some heroes aren't built to kill enemy heroes that early. While the supports have good spells to clear lanes with, you are a carry who depends on last hitting per attack.
I'm aware of this, which is why I think all of those heroes that don't have early killing power of some form (be it ganking, solo-killing, or teamfighting ability) are bad pub heroes.
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On August 23 2013 04:46 WindWolf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 04:33 Porkz wrote:New patch! http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=103333Gameplay
- Fixed players' current gold being networked to enemy players.
- Fixed Spirit Breaker's charge target being networked to enemy players.
- Picking up an armlet that is toggled on will only grant the buff if you own the armlet.
- Autocast abilities check target type rules consistently. This should prevent Clinkz's searing arrows hitting wards, for example.
- Added Elder Titan, Abaddon, Centaur and Troll Warlord to Captain's Mode.
- Fixed Neutral Thunderhide not using Slam when 3 enemies are nearby.
- Fixed Neutral Thunderhide's Slam not slowing attack speed.
- Ancient Apparition: Frostbite debuff will prevent health gain from levelling up, extra strength or extra max hp.
- Slark: Fixed BKB not removing Pounce's Leash.
- Treant Protector: Fixed Overgrowth affecting couriers.
- Troll Warlord: Fixed Illusions benefiting from Fervor.
- Troll Warlord: Fixed ranged form sometimes being able to bash.
- Weaver's geminate ability no longer activates when attacking wards.
- Weaver's time lapse and Disruptor's glimpse now can rewind things back to before the ability was skilled.
UI
- Runes now draw in the minimap for spectators.
- Increased the penalty for not readying up from 45 seconds to 2 minutes.
- Spectator stats dropdown is unlocked while listening to broadcasters.
- Added a preference and cvar "dota_spectator_use_broadcaster_stats_panel" to allow spectators to have full control over the stats panels.
- Private (friend/guild) lobbies now display their game name so that those browsing lobbies can get more info on what the lobby is for.
- Changed drag-select of units to use the same hit detection as click-select. This fixes a number of issues where units would not get selected.
- Fixed bugs that were allowing edge panning to be enabled during drag-select.
- Reduced CPU usage of drag-select.
- Fixed some newline formatting errors in the combat log.
- Prevented guides for the previously-played hero from erroneously showing up at the start of the next game.
- Added AOE hover indicator for Death Pulse.
Economy
- Added Waldi courier, Ocula ward, 3 HUDs and 14 hero item sets to the store.
- Updated Sniper's workshop model files with improved weighting, including corrected smd files.
Audio
- Fixed bad interactions with some looping sounds and FoW.
- Fixed Reincarnate stinger sometimes playing late when triggered in vision but out of hearing range.
- Fixed some item cast sounds that could be heard through FoW.
- Typing "tu" in chat no longer triggers hero "thank you" lines.
Mac/Linux
- Fixed crash when using certain spells / illusions on Intel HD4000. [Mac]
- Fixed intermittent crash when cmd-tabbing. [Mac]
- Fixed issues with older PulseAudio installations. [Linux]
- Improved stability when showing webpages.
- Allow setting language of audio and text separately, through Steam. (Text comes from Steam's language, audio comes from the language set in Dota 2's properties on Steam)
- Made Dota2 respond to window manager requests to close it.
- Fixes to make Dota2 work on a broader set of video cards on Linux
- Fixed key repeat to work in text entry windows.
- Fixed loading screens to show an image instead of a black screen
- Fixed a bug preventing multiple users from playing Dota2 (at different times) on a machine.
- Fixed sounds not working when a matchmaking game is ready to start. Added a desktop notification on Linux
- Added XBox 360 spectating controller support.
- Fixed crash on hero selection screen on Linux.
- Fixed a rendering bug when turning off Specular in advanced video settings.
- Fixed mouse offset bug and window size/aspect ratio issue when moving from full screen to windowed modes. No GLaDOS announcer yet I want to give Valve my money
You need to look up Waldi. He is worth all your money and more.
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On August 23 2013 04:50 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 04:42 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Yeah, absolutely.
Of course, it can be that not doing any lane support or making space makes you [more likely to] lose the game, and I think that people have a responsibility to their teammates to do their best to win, so there's that to bear in mind. The thing to remember with pubs is that games are heavily driven by morale and emotions. A game where your team thinks you're losing can very quickly turn into one where you're actually losing because people start playing the blame game or giving up. Conversely, you can often snowball a game simply by getting kills/towers and generally doing things that make the enemy believe that they are behind even if you did not trade that effectively (e.g. your carry came to fights and gave up farm) because the perception of losing will make them start bickering and giving up. This is part of the effectiveness of fighting carries and the ineffectiveness of farming carries in pubs. Being in fights and getting a big kill lead contributes to making the enemy play worse even if its not a legitimate gameplay advantage. Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 04:49 trinxified wrote:
Well that's all good and all too but some heroes aren't built to kill enemy heroes that early. While the supports have good spells to clear lanes with, you are a carry who depends on last hitting per attack. I'm aware of this, which is why I think all of those heroes that don't have early killing power of some form (be it ganking, solo-killing, or teamfighting ability) are bad pub heroes.
These are all fine points.
I'm not sure how it in any way justifies you calling anyone who plays a farming heavy game an asshole.
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On August 23 2013 04:52 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 04:50 TheYango wrote:On August 23 2013 04:42 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Yeah, absolutely.
Of course, it can be that not doing any lane support or making space makes you [more likely to] lose the game, and I think that people have a responsibility to their teammates to do their best to win, so there's that to bear in mind. The thing to remember with pubs is that games are heavily driven by morale and emotions. A game where your team thinks you're losing can very quickly turn into one where you're actually losing because people start playing the blame game or giving up. Conversely, you can often snowball a game simply by getting kills/towers and generally doing things that make the enemy believe that they are behind even if you did not trade that effectively (e.g. your carry came to fights and gave up farm) because the perception of losing will make them start bickering and giving up. This is part of the effectiveness of fighting carries and the ineffectiveness of farming carries in pubs. Being in fights and getting a big kill lead contributes to making the enemy play worse even if its not a legitimate gameplay advantage. On August 23 2013 04:49 trinxified wrote:
Well that's all good and all too but some heroes aren't built to kill enemy heroes that early. While the supports have good spells to clear lanes with, you are a carry who depends on last hitting per attack. I'm aware of this, which is why I think all of those heroes that don't have early killing power of some form (be it ganking, solo-killing, or teamfighting ability) are bad pub heroes. These are all fine points. I'm not sure how it in any way justifies you calling anyone who plays a farming heavy game an asshole.
He didn’t call them an ass hole. He said that if you do it and don’t ask your team mates if they want to play that way, you are an asshole. If people are ok with 4 protect 1, then there is nothing wrong with it.
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On August 23 2013 04:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 04:52 FuzzyJAM wrote:On August 23 2013 04:50 TheYango wrote:On August 23 2013 04:42 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Yeah, absolutely.
Of course, it can be that not doing any lane support or making space makes you [more likely to] lose the game, and I think that people have a responsibility to their teammates to do their best to win, so there's that to bear in mind. The thing to remember with pubs is that games are heavily driven by morale and emotions. A game where your team thinks you're losing can very quickly turn into one where you're actually losing because people start playing the blame game or giving up. Conversely, you can often snowball a game simply by getting kills/towers and generally doing things that make the enemy believe that they are behind even if you did not trade that effectively (e.g. your carry came to fights and gave up farm) because the perception of losing will make them start bickering and giving up. This is part of the effectiveness of fighting carries and the ineffectiveness of farming carries in pubs. Being in fights and getting a big kill lead contributes to making the enemy play worse even if its not a legitimate gameplay advantage. On August 23 2013 04:49 trinxified wrote:
Well that's all good and all too but some heroes aren't built to kill enemy heroes that early. While the supports have good spells to clear lanes with, you are a carry who depends on last hitting per attack. I'm aware of this, which is why I think all of those heroes that don't have early killing power of some form (be it ganking, solo-killing, or teamfighting ability) are bad pub heroes. These are all fine points. I'm not sure how it in any way justifies you calling anyone who plays a farming heavy game an asshole. He didn’t call them an ass hole. He said that if you do it and don’t ask your team mates if they want to play that way, you are an asshole. If people are ok with 4 protect 1, then there is nothing wrong with it.
Essentially picking/playing like that is being an asshole to your teammates because even if you win, you essentially stole the entire show at their expense. Everyone loves to be the 6-slotted carry that 3-shots everyone but if you have to watch someone else do that 4/5 games while you starve, it gets pretty frustrating.
???
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France29748 Posts
Wow all those new CM heroes, exciting times ahead.
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On August 23 2013 04:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 04:52 FuzzyJAM wrote:On August 23 2013 04:50 TheYango wrote:On August 23 2013 04:42 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Yeah, absolutely.
Of course, it can be that not doing any lane support or making space makes you [more likely to] lose the game, and I think that people have a responsibility to their teammates to do their best to win, so there's that to bear in mind. The thing to remember with pubs is that games are heavily driven by morale and emotions. A game where your team thinks you're losing can very quickly turn into one where you're actually losing because people start playing the blame game or giving up. Conversely, you can often snowball a game simply by getting kills/towers and generally doing things that make the enemy believe that they are behind even if you did not trade that effectively (e.g. your carry came to fights and gave up farm) because the perception of losing will make them start bickering and giving up. This is part of the effectiveness of fighting carries and the ineffectiveness of farming carries in pubs. Being in fights and getting a big kill lead contributes to making the enemy play worse even if its not a legitimate gameplay advantage. On August 23 2013 04:49 trinxified wrote:
Well that's all good and all too but some heroes aren't built to kill enemy heroes that early. While the supports have good spells to clear lanes with, you are a carry who depends on last hitting per attack. I'm aware of this, which is why I think all of those heroes that don't have early killing power of some form (be it ganking, solo-killing, or teamfighting ability) are bad pub heroes. These are all fine points. I'm not sure how it in any way justifies you calling anyone who plays a farming heavy game an asshole. He didn’t call them an ass hole. He said that if you do it and don’t ask your team mates if they want to play that way, you are an asshole. If people are ok with 4 protect 1, then there is nothing wrong with it.
well sometimes I just want to go go play a pub and farm for 35 min with antimage and dont really care what my team wants....
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They still have not fixed fog of war from spectators point of view when you select one team vision only, it should not be that hard
And no one screamed at this yet? - Added Elder Titan, Abaddon, Centaur and Troll Warlord to Captain's Mode.
I can't wait to see them into action, I'm specially looking forward ET, he's such a teamfight beast!
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Looking forward to testing the new box selection logic. This should've been done right from the start but better late than never..
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CM gonna be fun yeah! Troll and Cent!!!
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So is Troll going to be a pretty common pick for mid? Or will be be played as a 1 position?
I see his massive team buff as being more conducive to mid and I think he can hold his own, but obviously I've not seen it play out at the pro level so I don't really know.
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EPT
