EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 3618
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8926 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 17 2013 03:45 evilfatsh1t wrote: theres nothing wrong with vanguard on viper. there might be better items but there are also times where vanguard does the job quite well. viper doesnt need a damage item very early, has high move speed with phase and a strong slow+nuke. all he really lacks is survivability, and while mek is a decent choice viper doesnt have the biggest mana pool. in long drawn out fights you may find yourself out of mana quite often and a mek, while keeping you alive may also cause you to miss a kill due to lack of mana for your first skill. vanguard hood was core on viper a long time ago, as with other heroes who didnt need any item besides survivability in the early game (razor, dp, bristle). just because there are better alternatives now doesnt mean the old choices are bad But what about mek on bristle back? Or is he to much of a front line fighter for that to be a good idea? (I play a lot of random draft. Sometimes we need to make hard choices, like juggernaght being our hard carry because we don’t have other options) | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On August 17 2013 03:53 Plansix wrote: But what about mek on bristle back? Or is he to much of a front line fighter for that to be a good idea? (I play a lot of random draft. Sometimes we need to make hard choices, like juggernaght being our hard carry because we don’t have other options) The difference is that Bristle is a melee hero. I can see situations where vanguard is acceptable in melee heroes. I'll never defend vanguard on ranged heroes. | ||
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tapes
487 Posts
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DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
On August 17 2013 03:45 evilfatsh1t wrote: theres nothing wrong with vanguard on viper. there might be better items but there are also times where vanguard does the job quite well. viper doesnt need a damage item very early, has high move speed with phase and a strong slow+nuke. all he really lacks is survivability, and while mek is a decent choice viper doesnt have the biggest mana pool. in long drawn out fights you may find yourself out of mana quite often and a mek, while keeping you alive may also cause you to miss a kill due to lack of mana for your first skill. vanguard hood was core on viper a long time ago, as with other heroes who didnt need any item besides survivability in the early game (razor, dp, bristle). just because there are better alternatives now doesnt mean the old choices are bad A long time ago vanguard used to be pretty good. It just got nerfed into oblivion. Old items doesn't always work due to nerfs. Also I hope you are talking about going vanguard DP back then, because if you still do then I would be sad... | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 17 2013 03:59 Comeh wrote: The difference is that Bristle is a melee hero. I can see situations where vanguard is acceptable in melee heroes. I'll never defend vanguard on ranged heroes. All right, valid and as I assumed. Better to ask than to try it out in game and get flamed in several languages. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On August 17 2013 04:12 Plansix wrote: All right, valid and as I assumed. Better to ask than to try it out in game and get flamed in several languages. Well, the idea of mek isn't inherently awful on Bristle. I just don't think he has quite the mana pool to deal with it until he is a decently higher level. Never tried it before (granted, I have like 3 games of the hero), but I'm leaning towards a "eh" | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Urn is probably just better overall though, then going for something big like a heart (or just casual vit booster). | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On August 17 2013 04:18 Sn0_Man wrote: I think i'd go mek bristle over vanguard bristle in game too but thats situational. If you are low level bristle has a tremendous issue with mana so mek wouldn't work. His int gain is nuts though so if we are talking level 14ish then mek is sweet on him. Urn is probably just better overall though, then going for something big like a heart (or just casual vit booster). That's the issue though - by the time he can finish mek, he'll still probably have mana problem, but by the time he doesn't have mana problems anymore, you would have already wanted mek on someone else 4 minutes ago. I don't have too much experience with this hero, but that's my gut feeling on the matter. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 17 2013 04:26 TheYango wrote: Mana is the main issue. Unless you are really fed and gaining levels quickly, it's too late in the game for you to want Mek by the time Bristle can afford to use one. Because of this, Hood->later Pipe is generally smoother for Bristle. Hood before or after urn? Or not at all? | ||
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gaymon
Germany1023 Posts
On August 17 2013 04:26 TheYango wrote: Mana is the main issue. Unless you are really fed and gaining levels quickly, it's too late in the game for you to want Mek by the time Bristle can afford to use one. Because of this, Hood->later Pipe is generally smoother for Bristle. A level 8 Bristle with Mekansm (which is pretty early tbh) and Stick (even excluding the possibility of treadswitching, which most good players will before using mek) will have 540 Mana; combine that with at least one pair of manaboots by that moment and you will easily be able to use Mekansm (unless you are playing against manaburners, but thats rarely the case and if; the enemies arent too likely to use manaburn on you anyways) | ||
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GtC
United States546 Posts
Thanks for the help! | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On August 17 2013 04:37 GtC wrote: On the issue of viper, why do people buy ghost scepter on him in pro games? It doesn't seem to have a whole lot of synergy with corrosive skin and doesn't let viper take advantage of his damage steroids and slows (besides his ult - or is buying time for the ult the reason why they get it?) Is it because the only purpose of viper in the role pros run him is to tank for the team with corrosive skin, so ghost scepter serves to delay the other team for a couple of seconds on top of corrosive skin? Thanks for the help! Its picked up if he's against multiple right clicking core lineups (ie alchemist, weaver, dk), because he can use the ghost (and can't be right clicked), yet he can still attack if he manually uses his orb. It's just a nice invulnerable period to damage (and he has extra magic resist to deal with the downside of ghost). | ||
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GtC
United States546 Posts
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ViZe
United States1513 Posts
On August 17 2013 04:41 GtC wrote: Wait, I thought you can only cast orbs on ethereal targets. It works both ways? Yeah - this is also why ghost scepter is a fairly common pickup on Huskar nowadays | ||
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gaymon
Germany1023 Posts
On August 17 2013 04:41 GtC wrote: Wait, I thought you can only cast orbs on ethereal targets. It works both ways? its exactly the opposite of how you thought in the first place | ||
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