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On April 05 2012 05:30 Yoshi- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 05:27 cilinder007 wrote:
I think its more dps than than mkb, even without manta mkb is 88 damage + 100 damage for average every 3 hits + 15 attacks speed. butterfly is 60 damage and 60 attacksspeed, so unless you already have insane damage mkb is better, especially agianst rikis cloud
Yea unless you have a rapier MKB is better damage. (also 10% cheaper) Butterfly is always bought for the evasion.
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On April 05 2012 05:30 5-s wrote:
Powernet stopped farming for some reason. Could've easily done the same thing fear was doing and won, but was stuck on his first two items.
This is what I thought too. He seemed to be outfarming AM, but decided to just chill out and keep trying to gank even though EG was spamming sentries and dust even when he wasn't there.
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5 days, 50 games with Invoker. I am a beacon of knowledge blazing out across a black sea of ignorance! But really, holy shit what a marathon. I have primarily been a support/jungler so mid and side solo lanes have been a completely new experience for me. Feeling extremely happy with Invoker though. The level of improvement from my first 10 games to my last 10 is ridiculous. Still could do another 50 and learn more but I think I need to switch focus for the time being.
I am thinking of concentrating on solo mid for a little while. Maybe 10 games with QoP and SS.
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On April 05 2012 05:32 5-s wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 05:30 Yoshi- wrote:On April 05 2012 05:27 cilinder007 wrote:
I think its more dps than than mkb, even without manta mkb is 88 damage + 100 damage for average every 3 hits + 15 attacks speed. butterfly is 60 damage and 60 attacksspeed, so unless you already have insane damage mkb is better, especially agianst rikis cloud Yea unless you have a rapier MKB is better damage. (also 10% cheaper) Butterfly is always bought for the evasion.
is the damage from illusions negligible? Because MKB wouldn't increase dmg of illusions like the butterfly would, right? Since they only get damage from +stats, unless they could proc the 100dmg mini stun O_O. I need to refresh my mechanics knowledge. :E
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On April 05 2012 06:29 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 05:32 5-s wrote:On April 05 2012 05:30 Yoshi- wrote:On April 05 2012 05:27 cilinder007 wrote:
I think its more dps than than mkb, even without manta mkb is 88 damage + 100 damage for average every 3 hits + 15 attacks speed. butterfly is 60 damage and 60 attacksspeed, so unless you already have insane damage mkb is better, especially agianst rikis cloud Yea unless you have a rapier MKB is better damage. (also 10% cheaper) Butterfly is always bought for the evasion. is the damage from illusions negligible? Because MKB wouldn't increase dmg of illusions like the butterfly would, right? Since they only get damage from +stats, unless they could proc the 100dmg mini stun O_O. I need to refresh my mechanics knowledge. :E
Only thing that would be a factor for the illusions is the +30 agil, which does increase illusion damage, but not enough to it to be close in terms of raw DPS.
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On April 05 2012 06:14 Hoban wrote:
5 days, 50 games with Invoker. I am a beacon of knowledge blazing out across a black sea of ignorance! But really, holy shit what a marathon. I have primarily been a support/jungler so mid and side solo lanes have been a completely new experience for me. Feeling extremely happy with Invoker though. The level of improvement from my first 10 games to my last 10 is ridiculous. Still could do another 50 and learn more but I think I need to switch focus for the time being.
I am thinking of concentrating on solo mid for a little while. Maybe 10 games with QoP and SS.
pubing with QW invoker too much make my QE build much less refined :-(... If you wana try solo mid i recommend trying tinker/SF x)... Also beastmaster, Those are all hardcore solomid requires good lasthitting with combination of rune control. QoP solo is kinda ez mode :-/
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On April 05 2012 06:53 NB wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 06:14 Hoban wrote:
5 days, 50 games with Invoker. I am a beacon of knowledge blazing out across a black sea of ignorance! But really, holy shit what a marathon. I have primarily been a support/jungler so mid and side solo lanes have been a completely new experience for me. Feeling extremely happy with Invoker though. The level of improvement from my first 10 games to my last 10 is ridiculous. Still could do another 50 and learn more but I think I need to switch focus for the time being.
I am thinking of concentrating on solo mid for a little while. Maybe 10 games with QoP and SS. pubing with QW invoker too much make my QE build much less refined :-(... If you wana try solo mid i recommend trying tinker/SF x)... Also beastmaster, Those are all hardcore solomid requires good lasthitting with combination of rune control. QoP solo is kinda ez mode :-/
I still need to get the feel for mid. I am a nub when it comes to when to gank, creep control, and many other factors of mid. I like the SF idea, I will give him a shot. Maybe some shadow demon as well.
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Lalalaland34501 Posts
QoP solo is ez? Just had a guy straight pick QoP call out 'MID', proceeded to feed bloodseeker in solo mid then end up 1-13. How? I have no idea.
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
On April 05 2012 06:29 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 05:32 5-s wrote:On April 05 2012 05:30 Yoshi- wrote:On April 05 2012 05:27 cilinder007 wrote:
I think its more dps than than mkb, even without manta mkb is 88 damage + 100 damage for average every 3 hits + 15 attacks speed. butterfly is 60 damage and 60 attacksspeed, so unless you already have insane damage mkb is better, especially agianst rikis cloud Yea unless you have a rapier MKB is better damage. (also 10% cheaper) Butterfly is always bought for the evasion. is the damage from illusions negligible? Because MKB wouldn't increase dmg of illusions like the butterfly would, right? Since they only get damage from +stats, unless they could proc the 100dmg mini stun O_O. I need to refresh my mechanics knowledge. :E
I did some math a while ago when debating about MKB vs Butterfly on Anti-Mage.
+ Show Spoiler +Assume Anti-Mage is level 20.
NEXT ITEM BUTTERFLY OR MKB?
Set next item as Butterfly
Assume level 20 Anti-Mage
Vanguard, Agility Treads, BKB, Manta Style, Butterfly
Base Agility: 22 + 19*2.8 + 10 = 85.2
Agility Treads: +8 AGI, +25 IAS
Manta Style: +26 AGI, +15 IAS
Butterfly: +30 AGI, +30 IAS
Total Agility: 149.2
Total +IAS: 70
Attacks per second = (1+2.192)/1.35 = 2.36
Damage on Anti-Mage with items above:
Starting average damage: 51
Added damage through Agility: 127.2
Added damage through BKB: 24
Damage through Mana Break: 64 * .6 = 38.4
Added damage through Butterfly: 30
Total damage (with BKB) per hit = 270.6
DPS = 638.6
Set next item as MKB
Assume level 20 Anti-Mage
Vanguard, Agility Treads, BKB, Manta Style, MKB
Base Agility: 22 + 19*2.8 + 10 = 85.2
Agility Treads: +8 AGI, +25 IAS
Manta Style: +26 AGI, +15 IAS
MKB: +15 IAS
Total Agility: 119.2
Total +IAS: 55
Attacks per second = (1+1.742)/1.35 = 2.03
Damage on Anti-Mage with items above:
Starting average damage: 51
Added damage through Agility: 97.2
Added damage through BKB: 24
Damage through Mana Break: 64 * .6 = 38.4
Added damage through MKB: 88+35 = 123
Total damage (with BKB) per hit = 333.6
DPS (with BKB) = 677.2
It would seem adding MKB yields slightly better DPS than Butterfly by about 38.6. However, Manta Style images.
Level 20 Anti-Mage Manta Style Mirror Images
Damage percentage: 33%
Two of them deal 66% damage
Illusions do not benefit from raw damage, raw +IAS, or the interrupt (bonus damage) from MKB, but since Anti-Mage's images are melee they do have the Feedback orb, which deals full damage after the burn.
ILLUSION DAMAGE WITH BUTTERFLY
Starting Average damage: 51
Added damage through Agility: 127.2
Modified (33%) damage = 58.8
Damage through Mana Break = 38.4
Total illusion damage = 97.2 per hit
Two illusions deal 194.4 damage per hit
Total Agility: 149.2
Attacks per second = (1+1.492)/1.35 = 1.846
DPS of two illusions (Butterfly) = 358.9
ILLUSION DAMAGE WITH MKB
Starting Average damage: 51
Added damage through Agility: 97.2
Modified (33%) damage: 48.9
Damage through Mana Break = 38.4
Total illusion damage: 87.3 per hit
Two illusions deal 174.6 damage per hit
Total Agility: 119.2
Attacks per second = (1+1.192)/1.35 = 1.624
DPS of two illusions (MKB) = 283.5
Butterfly + BKB damage of AM + two illusions = 997.5
MKB + BKB damage of AM + two illusions = 960.7
Worked out to MKB being better for damage. Butterfly it up just for the evasion.
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On April 05 2012 07:51 Firebolt145 wrote:
QoP solo is ez? Just had a guy straight pick QoP call out 'MID', proceeded to feed bloodseeker in solo mid then end up 1-13. How? I have no idea.
Pretty easy for any weak ranged to get destroyed by BS mid in my experience.
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On April 05 2012 06:41 5-s wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 06:29 crms wrote:On April 05 2012 05:32 5-s wrote:On April 05 2012 05:30 Yoshi- wrote:On April 05 2012 05:27 cilinder007 wrote:
I think its more dps than than mkb, even without manta mkb is 88 damage + 100 damage for average every 3 hits + 15 attacks speed. butterfly is 60 damage and 60 attacksspeed, so unless you already have insane damage mkb is better, especially agianst rikis cloud Yea unless you have a rapier MKB is better damage. (also 10% cheaper) Butterfly is always bought for the evasion. is the damage from illusions negligible? Because MKB wouldn't increase dmg of illusions like the butterfly would, right? Since they only get damage from +stats, unless they could proc the 100dmg mini stun O_O. I need to refresh my mechanics knowledge. :E Only thing that would be a factor for the illusions is the +30 agil, which does increase illusion damage, but not enough to it to be close in terms of raw DPS.
Estimating attack speed to be worth half a damage point, the butterfly would give about 90 damage, and on the illusions 30 damage.
MKB is 88+30 + ias, so it should be very similar. On am, mana break damage with illusions probably favors butterfly a little more.
By the way, you don't have to divide by the base attack speed since it just factors out.
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QoP really not that easy to play imoimo, sure she has blink to help with rune control/postioning but is very frail and has crazy high mana usages.
Beastmaster/rhasta good mid heroes to try imo, though ofc there's a ton.
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On April 05 2012 08:02 Goshawk. wrote:
QoP really not that easy to play imoimo, sure she has blink to help with rune control/postioning but is very frail and has crazy high mana usages.
Beastmaster/rhasta good mid heroes to try imo, though ofc there's a ton.
We have a Beastmaster and Rhasta on the team so I'll probably wait to get a bunch of games on those. I'm thinking 15 games of SF, SD, and QoP will give me a good feel. So...anyone have any recommendations for these heroes? The mid mentality? I have watched Dendi's 2 hr video on solo mid but that is about it.
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On April 05 2012 04:36 Firebolt145 wrote:MERLINI WHAT?!
Oooh man. SO excited for Merlini to come back. <3
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On April 05 2012 08:31 Frazzlehoon wrote:Oooh man. SO excited for Merlini to come back. <3
Ben looked so rusty that game, hope he has enough time to practice if he's actually back.
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I don't wanna see him degraded though.
If he came back just to play tides and venos he'd better stay retired. He was my fav player back in the days, Q_Q.
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On April 05 2012 08:02 Goshawk. wrote:
QoP really not that easy to play imoimo, sure she has blink to help with rune control/postioning but is very frail and has crazy high mana usages.
Beastmaster/rhasta good mid heroes to try imo, though ofc there's a ton.
the only hard thing about QoP early on is to learn not to rely on blink too much. If you rely on blink you will suffer by unexpected gank and blink on cd. Mana and last hitting as well as rune control cant be easier while harrasing is a given bc of lv2 shadow strike.
Later on once it came down to ganking team fight phase, QoP will show her true skill but laning phase often is just an auto win.
Beastmaster is really hard hero to mid with bc you need to control the creep engage position so that you have room to get rune. Its like you need to push the lane hard around 1:30 so when its 2 mins, the creep wave is at enemy tower so they have to def while you go get rune. Multi task, map control, playing beastmaster gona teach you a ton.
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Lalalaland34501 Posts
On April 05 2012 08:35 5-s wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 08:31 Frazzlehoon wrote:On April 05 2012 04:36 Firebolt145 wrote:On April 05 2012 04:11 dragonborn wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Fear, DeMoN, BuLba, Merlini, Lacoste MERLINI WHAT?! Oooh man. SO excited for Merlini to come back. <3 Ben looked so rusty that game, hope he has enough time to practice if he's actually back.
I love how you're on first name terms with him. =D
I found it really curious that he was playing Tide. Has he stopped playing the typical solo int hero or was he just forced to from hero picks?
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i just wanna say AA + veil of discord + teamfight is really fun :D
also DK will probably win G-1 now. WE lost all their mojo in the last few weeks, though the games will be entertaining due to the massive amounts of throwing in DK vs WE games
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On April 05 2012 09:10 rabidch wrote:
i just wanna say AA + veil of discord + teamfight is really fun :D
also DK will probably win G-1 now. WE lost all their mojo in the last few weeks, though the games will be entertaining due to the massive amounts of throwing in DK vs WE games
context?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xuojP.jpg)
