EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 3300
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blahz0r
3030 Posts
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On July 12 2013 02:29 Yoshi- wrote: So Cold Snap and Winrunners shackle (when only on one target) are proper stuns? Fine, make it a fraction of a second. Whatever. Poison Touch has always been refered as a stun after level 3, and a ministun on impact on all levels. Calling both of them ministuns is just confusing. Lion has a ministun at level 1? Fissure at level 1? Caotic Offering is a mini-stun at all levels then. This is a dumb discussion. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
i played this game as a 5th position mirana. a few arrow ganks and some snowball later I decided to stop supporting and just start killing everyone. This is a case where it works out swimmingly. In a game with such varied skill though I'm pretty sure any hero would have been effective. I don't think she's a particular strong support hero. She relies a lot on your enemy making mistakes and having great arrow skillz. It's a wishy washy coinflip as to how effective you'll actually be. I'd rather a support with a more 'dedicated' or 'guaranteed' impact. | ||
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beef42
Denmark1037 Posts
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pedrlz
Brazil5234 Posts
On July 12 2013 02:05 beef42 wrote: Mine is ignore game, boots first, roam around and shoot arrows at people until you hit. pretty much that i just buy boots bottle and wards, if I can i finish arcane or anything else, some games I made mek, some urn or medallion, another I finished Desolator with almost no CS | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On July 12 2013 02:45 beef42 wrote: While I agree with you, I'll add that if the guys in the lane have stuns you don't actually need neither luck nor Jesus arrow skillz. True, she can synergize well and her ult is very good. The bonus to her as a support is in the chance she DOES snowball she actually scales into the late game and can *nearly* play as a 1 carry. So that's always nice. Of course on the flip side when she has a bad start, doesn't get rolling, she's far worse than any standard support. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 12 2013 02:18 beef42 wrote: dude you could get an actual useful item for that money. like mek. and unless you are like five kills/assists by ten minutes that midas is going to be slow as hell. by the time it pays itself out game will be decided. i think that shit is fucking weird. You can't support a Mek without at least another major mana item anyway (4 active skills with non-trivial mana costs and poor Int gain), and anything else within your budget (e.g. Drums, Yasha) doesn't make a real impact to your fighting ability without at least one or more other items paired with it. Most of the options that actually do boost your combat ability to the desired level (e.g. Orchid) are actually expensive enough that, given your low farm priority, it's actually conceivable for a Midas to be worth it before you finish one. | ||
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beef42
Denmark1037 Posts
I guess if your team has three furions, two spectres and a medusa you might reckon game will go long enough for that AC/Deso to matter, but the vast majority of games I'd judge to be over much before that midas pays out. | ||
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LemonyTang
United Kingdom437 Posts
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Never heard anything different than below 1 second, ministun, 1 second and above, proper stun. As for mirana, I'm no fan of her. Really low damage makes it hard to contest lasthits against everyone except for maybe crystal maiden. She has to rely on the impact of her spells for almost the entire game. Building her towards dps pays off really, really late. At that point you could just have bought a sheepstick instead. Incidentally sheepstick is a really good item that allows her to spam star shower nearly on cooldown. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 12 2013 03:47 beef42 wrote: If fuckin' Venge can get a Mek so can PotM. Well there's your problem, Venge is almost never an appropriate Mek carrier. On July 12 2013 03:47 beef42 wrote: Get arcane if you must. Arcanes is awkward for PotM's long-term development because she really does need Treads or Phase in the long run. On July 12 2013 03:47 beef42 wrote: Secondly, exactly because gold gain is expected to be low, I object against midas, it being a 1900 expenditure for no real benefit. Your damage is much too low for the slight aspd to matter, and since you have been ganking you're already behind a real farmer unless you have been fed big time. But if the rest of your team has a good tempo from your successful roaming, a "real farmer" on the other team is going to fall behind very quickly in the midgame even if you are farming, because a farmed mid or safe lane teamfight carry will be able to direct the flow of the game even with the 4th position hero farming. In fact, it is quite normal in pub games for the supports to be getting farm time while the higher position farmers are directing the flow of the game. On July 12 2013 03:47 beef42 wrote: As you say you can get drums or diffusal or just a casual yasha and actually be something in the midgame, rather than being nothing in the midgame and then being an AC/Deso aurabot in the lategame. Singular 1-2k gold items don't increase PotM's combat effectiveness by that much. They only have real impact when paired with one another or with a major item, which, again, takes long enough on 4th position farm for Midas to come into its own. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On July 12 2013 03:57 TheYango wrote: Well there's your problem, Venge is almost never an appropriate Mek carrier. Arcanes is awkward for PotM's long-term development because she really does need Treads or Phase in the long run. But if the rest of your team has a good tempo from your successful roaming, a "real farmer" on the other team is going to fall behind very quickly in the midgame even if you are farming, because a farmed mid or safe lane teamfight carry will be able to direct the flow of the game even with the 4th position hero farming. In fact, it is quite normal in pub games for the supports to be getting farm time while the higher position farmers are directing the flow of the game. Singular 1-2k gold items don't increase PotM's combat effectiveness by that much. They only have real impact when paired with one another or with a major item, which, again, takes long enough on 4th position farm for Midas to come into its own. There was that game of a one position mushi-mirana who went arcanes, and it worked brilliantly. Its not too horrible to go arcanes on her. A huge chunk of her early-mid damage comes from her spells anyways, so if you can get into the later midgame with other damage items, the choice of boots is less important. | ||
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beef42
Denmark1037 Posts
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Mandini
United States1717 Posts
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beef42
Denmark1037 Posts
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On July 12 2013 04:07 beef42 wrote: Well let us leave it at that. I still think Midas is a retarded item for a midgame hero, at least gotten when after ten minutes. About as weird as a midas SF. And Venge is a perfectly fine Mek carrier, what the devil? She have even less manacosts than Potm does. And Arcane boots are perfectly fine on a Potm that's not going damage items anyway such as a Mek Potm. The issue with Venge as a Mek carrier is how you sometimes suicide yourself to swap a carry out, putting you in a bad position to use Mek effectivelly. But it has nothing to do with her Mana Pool. Something like Veno also has a low mana pool and can carry a Mek if there is no better hero for it. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On July 12 2013 04:09 beef42 wrote: It would take one heck of a game to get it before ten minutes without farming and with whatever boots you need for fighting. That means that midas pays itself out at 20 minutes at the soonest. Man, games sometimes have people going highground at that time, or five-ten minutes after. Not to mention you are sacrificing getting more items for some of the times that mirana is the most relevant - so you are essentially getting the item to skip past some of the stronger periods of mirana's play (early-mid) to strengthen some of the most mediocre parts of mirana's play (the later stages of the game). You're boots will be upgraded much later, even items like drums and aquila could come very late. I just don't think I could envision midas working on a support mirana reliably, unless you get first and second blood and a 5 minute tower. | ||
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beef42
Denmark1037 Posts
On July 12 2013 04:10 SKC wrote: The issue with Venge as a Mek carrier is how you sometimes suicide yourself to swap a carry out, putting you in a bad position to use Mek effectivelly. But it has nothing to do with her Mana Pool. Something like Veno also has a low mana pool and can carry a Mek if there is no better hero for it. I would hope the VS player had already popped his mek before resorting to such drastic measures.  | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On July 12 2013 04:13 beef42 wrote: I would hope the VS player had already popped his mek before resorting to such drastic measures. You ussually do it when both teams are facing each other, with basically no damage taken on both sides. It's not drastic at all, it's pretty common. | ||
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