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On June 08 2013 09:47 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 09:18 SKC wrote:
Just saying that if I was writing a guide often aimed at beginners I wouldn't use a gimmicky build like Ghost Scepter Huskar, even if it turns out to be a good build. Even people with a lot of experience on the game wouldn't really know how that works and a steam guide isn't exactly in depth. People from the lower levels of play would probally have far better sucess with something more standard like Armlet -> Aghs/Damage. It's better to keep it simple, more mechanically demanding builds like Blink WR, Blink Meepo, etc. are better left to people that don't really need a guide, even if they are as good or even better. You can just list them as a situational item, if that. Armlet is by nature a mechanically demanding item, though.
I did think about it, but there's no other cheap, effective and easy item that replaces it, and rushing a big item is often not the best idea. It's not like you need to armlet toggle for it to be worth it, it's damage alone is pretty good. The biggest concern is if they will even remember to turn it on and off. I would never remove Armlet from Naix's build for example. It's a far more simple concept than Ghost Scepter on Huskar.
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On June 08 2013 09:52 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 09:47 TheYango wrote:On June 08 2013 09:18 SKC wrote:
Just saying that if I was writing a guide often aimed at beginners I wouldn't use a gimmicky build like Ghost Scepter Huskar, even if it turns out to be a good build. Even people with a lot of experience on the game wouldn't really know how that works and a steam guide isn't exactly in depth. People from the lower levels of play would probally have far better sucess with something more standard like Armlet -> Aghs/Damage. It's better to keep it simple, more mechanically demanding builds like Blink WR, Blink Meepo, etc. are better left to people that don't really need a guide, even if they are as good or even better. You can just list them as a situational item, if that. Armlet is by nature a mechanically demanding item, though. I did think about it, but there's no other cheap, effective and easy item that replaces it, and rushing a big item is often not the best idea. It's not like you need to armlet toggle for it to be worth it, it's damage alone is pretty good. The biggest concern is if they will even remember to turn it on and off.
TBH if you want a 2600 gold item for cost effectiveness urn medallion is better and significantly cheaper and easier to build. if you want to get one good item, Sange does much of what armlet does in a fool proof container, and even builds into halberd which acts as a psuedo ghost scepter anyway at least for huskarr
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Medallion is a terrible newb item, they never remember to reaply it every 7s in the middle of a fight. Even then you are paying 1k for -6 armor, since the mana is useless. The defensive stats from armlet are also much better. Urn is fine but you can buy it with armlet as well, you ussually need one form of regen, I just didn't mention it.
Sange gives you far less damage than armlet, it's not even a fair comparison. You never build it for damage, it's always for SnY or the Halberd, it's effectiveness alone is pretty lackluster and one of the reason everyone used to hate SnY.
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Medallion is also pretty bad on him imo because he doesn't need the mana regen and the bulk of his damage is magical from ult+spears. A lot of the time you probably don't even want to use the active because the innate armor you get from it would be better than having -armor on someone else.
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On June 08 2013 10:01 SKC wrote:
Medallion is a terrible newb item, they never remember to reaply it every 7s in the middle of a fight. Even then you are paying 1k for -6 armor, since the mana is useless. The defensive stats from armlet are also much better. Urn is fine but you can buy it with armlet as well, you ussually need one form of regen, I just didn't mention it.
Sange gives you far less damage than armlet, it's not even a fair comparison. You never build it for damage, it's always for SnY or the Halberd, it's effectiveness alone is pretty lackluster and one of the reason everyone used to hate SnY.
its no more terrible than armlet tbh. it at its very least doesn't punish you for messing it up. the mana regeneration isn't USELES but its likely all the regen you will ever need on those two items. Sange gives 26 damage with 550 gold to spare for a casual cloak or a faster phase boots. its only 30 less damage that you'll get sooner than armlet with assuming you always have armlet on which you may or may not as a newbie, and a noob will use better than armlet, and it builds into something later on, unlike armlet. I think on huskar given halberd, sange will end up doing something similar. and be better by the end anyway.
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Sange also gives you far less atack speed (none), it gives you far less damage overall.
Most people remember to turn Armlet on, because it's quite obvious when it's turned off. Reaplying a debuff every 7s in a caotic fight is a much bigger deal. Still, even if you do it right, it's -6 armor for 1k, the mana is definatelly useless if you even have a urn.
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uh it's 30 less damage and 25 less attackspeed
seriously they're not even comparable in terms of damage output
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On June 08 2013 10:14 Dead9 wrote:
uh it's 30 less damage and 25 less attackspeed
seriously they're not even comparable in terms of damage output
you seriously are complaining about attack speed on huskar? the guy gets close to the limit with just serker blood. an halberd is better than armlet later int he game especially on this huskar unlike old huskar.
Besides the 550 gold can be used to purchase the rest of your phase boots, which will give you 9-14 damage from the extra blade. and you get it. SOONER. thats the key. newbs aren't gonna have a good time getting an armlet, not when you can go cheap items like sange or urn medallion and pick it up super fast.
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except you won't always be at max berserkers blood and sange gives a grand total of zero attackspeed
they're seriously not even comparable in terms of damage output; it's less than half of the damage and none of the attackspeed
besides that there's the 5 armor which is pretty big
and idk why you're saying "oh armlet is hard to use buy halberd instead or urn medallion"
both of those are harder to use than armlet
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Sange was for quite some time considered one of the worst items in Dota, if not the worst (perhaps a little bit unfairly), while Armlet was always considered one of the best damage items in the game for Str heroes, considering damage per gold. They are seriously not comparable for damage output.
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I think for the guide, Ghost Scepter is not necessarily a bad item to put on him as core.
I'll remove bottle for the guide and add urn instead. While Urn is situational, you do need a certain regenerative item at level 6 when you start ganking around: Urn justifies the need to gank as well as give you some needed stats before you go for treads and armlet.
Thoughts?
I think Huskar's Core should either have Ghost Scepter or BKB, I don't understand why Agh is considered so good now when it's the same before, if anything: since we're maxing flame spear more, the health loss from multiple leaps seems unjustified.
What do you guys think?
I put situational as: Drums, Blademail, BKB
and extension is: Heart, MKB, Deadlus
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129119115
Here you go
(rating it up would be nice too once we get the outline properly done  )
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On June 08 2013 10:50 Torte de Lini wrote:I think for the guide, Ghost Scepter is not necessarily a bad item to put on him as core. I'll remove bottle for the guide and add urn instead. While Urn is situational, you do need a certain regenerative item at level 6 when you start ganking around: Urn justifies the need to gank as well as give you some needed stats before you go for treads and armlet. Thoughts? I think Huskar's Core should either have Ghost Scepter or BKB, I don't understand why Agh is considered so good now when it's the same before, if anything: since we're maxing flame spear more, the health loss from multiple leaps seems unjustified. What do you guys think? I put situational as: Drums, Blademail, BKB and extension is: Heart, MKB, Deadlus http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129119115Here you go (rating it up would be nice too once we get the outline properly done )
Life break does magic damage to yourself. think about it. also husk's role has changed so much, so aghanims is ridiculous.
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ok the fucking lvl 11 2200 exp to level bug is really fucking stupid
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Wouldn't Hood work nicely here too then? I think NB suggested it too.
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On June 08 2013 10:59 Torte de Lini wrote:
Wouldn't Hood work nicely here too then? I think NB suggested it too.
No. He gets it for the regen alone basically, you got urn for that. Both makes even less sense.
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On June 08 2013 10:59 Torte de Lini wrote:
Wouldn't Hood work nicely here too then? I think NB suggested it too.
You can grab a casual cloak if you'd like, but investing more than that would mean going straight for pipe as an item.
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Roger makes sense just double checking
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On June 08 2013 11:18 Torte de Lini wrote:
Roger makes sense just double checking
the cloak/hood become less valuable the lower on health you get so the much smaller investment on the cloak works better in the long run, though a pipe is still useful even at low health because it helps your team significantly. the inbetween step is probably really bad though in comparison.
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aghs probably isn't much better than before. aghs rarely helps more than a bkb or armlet; i mean leaping on things is great and all but you'd generally be doing more damage just hitting things. it's fun but not really all that practical
the damage loss on berserker's blood isn't that big of a deal. it hurts his early game damage output a bit but that's more than made up for with the buff to burning spears and his bonus magic resist. lategame attackspeed is more valuable than damage anyway so he's actually stronger there than before
honestly huskar probably plays around the same as before except now he's less vulnerable to nukes. maybe skip hotd now but it's still nice for stacking ancients and killing magic immune things (like ancients)
treads/phase + wand > hotd > armlet > bkb > crit/satanic/heart/halberd/abyssal
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the old huskar build with hotd armlet works just fine on new huskar. hood is just a complete waste of gold.
hh can be gotten later for suvivability but bkb is just much better. because when you're low and not stunned and hitting stuff, stuff dies and you heal faster than they can dps.
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EPT
