EPTYes it's hard.
No you didn't have the impact you think you had.
No carry isn't an easier role at all.
You are not better because you play support.
General Discussion - Page 2985
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Kazzoo
France368 Posts
Yes it's hard. No you didn't have the impact you think you had. No carry isn't an easier role at all. You are not better because you play support. | ||
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Klonere
Ireland4123 Posts
more like at the top of the QQ thread but maybe thats a lost cause | ||
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Najda
United States3765 Posts
On June 03 2013 04:35 levelnoobz wrote: There is this trend of hyping support play. Supports are hard. They are not harder than any other role. Saying carries only farm safe lane is like saying supports onyl have to place runewards to be useful. This may be true in some situations, but only rarely. I almost exclusively play support (and like it alot), and it fucks up my mechs completely. I am not even remotely able to play any other role at half of my support level, because, thou it requires good understanding of the game (like all roles), it's not as mechanically intese as other roles. Yes it's hard. No you didn't have the impact you think you had. No carry isn't an easier role at all. You are not better because you play support. I disagree with you on the impact part. A good support in a pub game very often is the difference between winning and losing. Carry is my favorite role, but it often relies on a support who knows how to control a lane to be succesful, which simply doesn't happen very often in all pick. I never said or meant to imply that support was the hardest, just that they have the most influence over the flow of the early game. Also dont tell me how much I impact I ha in my game when you have no idea what happened. I recognize games like the one I had are rarely possible, and I was only able to get so many kills on mid because it was invoker instead of a hero with an escape like qop, but it's definitely possible for a support to put the team in a position that'd be hard to lose from in just the first 15 minutes. | ||
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Kazzoo
France368 Posts
On June 03 2013 04:46 Najda wrote: I disagree with you on the impact part. A good support in a pub game very often is the difference between winning and losing. Carry is my favorite role, but it often relies on a support who knows how to control a lane to be succesful, which simply doesn't happen very often in all pick. I never said or meant to imply that support was the hardest, just that they have the most influence over the flow of the early game. Also dont tell me how much I impact I ha in my game when you have no idea what happened. I recognize games like the one I had are rarely possible, and I was only able to get so many kills on mid because it was invoker instead of a hero with an escape like qop, but it's definitely possible for a support to put the team in a position that'd be hard to lose from in just the first 15 minutes. This is the part that annoys me. It always take a good team, whatever your role you can play the best game you had and lose and play like shit and get carried. What I dislike is the idea that you can singlehandedly win a game. You can't. You need good players in every role. The example of ganking lanes (and that's why I said you didn't have that much impact, though it was a genral statement, not only for you) is that ganking lanes, is the support equivalent of farming your safelane as a carry. It takes skill, no doubt, but if you can do it, it's also because the opponent fucked up and you had enough space created by other players on your team. People always take example of stomps. Dota is an atrociously easy game when winning. The true skill and impact of players is seen when shit goes wrong. | ||
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Najda
United States3765 Posts
I guess I shouldnt say the support wins the game for you, but rather can put the game handily in your favor so that if the other lanes didnt fail hard an your carry isn't incompetant you will most likely come away with the win. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
I play with many bad/new players and swap roles around a lot, the issue is that getting to that reliable last hitting level requires a player to be playing a role that requires it. Friends who sit around in the jungle because they don't have to lasthit (or play heroes like dark seer where last-hitting isn't the majority of his farm or ones that aren't item dependent) have farm fall off drastically and their effectiveness in general in the lategame falls because they're so far behind on items. However, the biggest mis matches are when solo mids are drastically differing skills. It's really hard to recover from a night stalker getting beyond godlike before the first night time or having to carry a 0-7-0 tinker/random hero who is just total dead weight. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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Talron
Germany7651 Posts
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BlitzerSC
Italy8800 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On June 03 2013 05:16 PrinceXizor wrote: 4th position is the hardest role in dota. because 4th position is often captains position, and making the calls organizing the team and still fulfilling 4th position gameplay is harder than anything else. There are a lot of teams that don't have their 4th position as the captain, does it hold true for the 4th if the captain role is given to someone else? - DK has Burning, Alliance has Loda (though he doesn't draft/maybe liquipedia is inaccurate here?), IG's is Zhou, Tongfu's captain is Hao, all position 1. Fnatic.eu has Fly in 5th position. Oh there's ice^3 as solo laner being captain for Zenith but I would accept any argument that he's sort of an... exception to any captain/position arguments. Flipping through liquipedia I feel like I'm going crazy here, or that at the very least captain and drafter should be highlighted separately since I thought Faith drafted for IG and S4 for [A]. | ||
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
On June 03 2013 05:24 Talron wrote: #1 being the hardest to play? Wat. Every role requires a different, EQUALLY COMPLEX skill set. The decision making involved in a 1 position player is just as complex as that of a 5 position player. Possibly the only role above the others is the 4 position shot-caller. Everyone else is equal, and requires their own skillset. Nothing is easier than anything else. Don't be so simple minded. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 03 2013 05:27 BlitzerSC wrote: Please tell me why you consider #5 to be harder to play than #1. I really want to know. I think playing 5 perfectly is harder than playing 1 perfectly, but a weaker 1 has a more visible impact on the game. | ||
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
the moment someone of the opposing 5 is picking a cm, you know you will get owned, lol. | ||
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Incze
Romania2058 Posts
Though really there shouldn't be a contest between positions. Every man plays what he likes or thinks is better for the team. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 03 2013 05:29 Nevuk wrote: There are a lot of teams that don't have their 4th position as the captain, does it hold true for the 4th if the captain role is given to someone else? - DK has Burning, Alliance has Loda (though he doesn't draft/maybe liquipedia is inaccurate here?), IG's is Zhou, Tongfu's captain is Hao, all position 1. Fnatic.eu has Fly in 5th position. Oh there's ice^3 as solo laner being captain for Zenith but I would accept any argument that he's sort of an... exception to any captain/position arguments. Flipping through liquipedia I feel like I'm going crazy here, or that at the very least captain and drafter should be highlighted separately since I thought Faith drafted for IG and S4 for [A]. The thing is, not all teams follow a strict "captain calls, everyone else listens" model. Often the listed captain is just the ostensible one. Watching iG's scrims, I know Zhou is not very vocal, and team decisions are pretty "democratic". | ||
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Talron
Germany7651 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 03 2013 05:55 Talron wrote: DotA is a hard game, and thus all roles are difficult, so when I'd be forced to pick one and say it's the hardest of all them, the last one coming to my mind would be #1. if i had to pick it'd be 4 > 3 > 5 > 2 > 1in terms of difficulty. that is assuming the 4th is the play caller as is often is the case. | ||
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Imbajoe
United States857 Posts
On June 03 2013 05:58 PrinceXizor wrote: if i had to pick it'd be 4 > 3 > 5 > 2 > 1in terms of difficulty. that is assuming the 4th is the play caller as is often is the case. This is about what I've felt too, maybe swapping 5 and 3 | ||
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Spicy_Curry
United States10573 Posts
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