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Not being able to easily find a group to play tmm with (because you have no "number" attached to anyone) is probably the only thing that bugs me about all this. However, a solo q number - while giving a certain baseline - tells you how good that person is at winning solo q games which are completely different from "real" games in many aspects. It just "solves" that problem on a very superficial level.
TMM is actually a good example of this since apparently the base rating stems from your solo q hidden mmr. I've been in both teams above 4.5k (which resulted in a 20+ losing streak since people were much worse at teamgames than their solo mmr suggested) but also in teams around 3k rating (which resulted in a huge winning streak since the guys in that case never invested anything into their solo mmr).
Reducing people to stats or numbers just doesn't work for team games.
Edit: You're pretty much suggesting seperate accounts for playing with friends, for playing ranked solo, for playing different positions and different heroes. It just doesn't work like that. Not to mention there are dozens of things that are almost impossible to practice properly in pubgames with random people but aren't rocket science in an environment with 4 other people you know.
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On June 03 2013 03:48 edlover420 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 03:39 Unleashing wrote:On June 03 2013 03:35 edlover420 wrote:On June 03 2013 03:32 r.Evo wrote:
So what you're saying is that you were paired with baddies much worse than you who you had to carry in a game with a visible MMR and ranking? Remember the part about the e-peen and numbers? =P I'm saying that we could adjust the roles according to our stats and have fun playing, whereas I'm not having any fun playing dota whatsoever because I keep getting forced to play focking dazzle to support people who play like they have down syndrome. Yea adjusting according to stats sure made HoN fun for me to play. I primarily stacked with friends and supported them, do you think i could play solo afterwards and play mid or carry? HAHAHA GOOD FUCKING JOKE. I'd be shouted and cursed at untill i played support. Regardless of being able to play both mid and carry just fine. BECAUSE MY GENERAL STATS WERE THAT OF A SUPPORT. What a fucking great system, amirite guise? Have 1 account to play with friends and 1 account to solo queue. Players like you ruined solo matchmaking in HoN. Due to people playing with friends and having some sort of teamplay in these matches, 90% of such players would get ratings above their true personal skill and would play terrible when they solo queued.
Yeah its totally his fault and not the systems.
Good points man.
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On June 03 2013 03:48 edlover420 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 03:39 Unleashing wrote:On June 03 2013 03:35 edlover420 wrote:On June 03 2013 03:32 r.Evo wrote:
So what you're saying is that you were paired with baddies much worse than you who you had to carry in a game with a visible MMR and ranking? Remember the part about the e-peen and numbers? =P I'm saying that we could adjust the roles according to our stats and have fun playing, whereas I'm not having any fun playing dota whatsoever because I keep getting forced to play focking dazzle to support people who play like they have down syndrome. Yea adjusting according to stats sure made HoN fun for me to play. I primarily stacked with friends and supported them, do you think i could play solo afterwards and play mid or carry? HAHAHA GOOD FUCKING JOKE. I'd be shouted and cursed at untill i played support. Regardless of being able to play both mid and carry just fine. BECAUSE MY GENERAL STATS WERE THAT OF A SUPPORT. What a fucking great system, amirite guise? Have 1 account to play with friends and 1 account to solo queue. Players like you ruined solo matchmaking in HoN. Due to people playing with friends and having some sort of teamplay in these matches, 90% of such players would get ratings above their true personal skill and would play terrible when they solo queued.
So i should buy 2 accounts to be able to play both solo Q and team Q? What a fucking joke.
And no, players like me did not ruin solo matchmaking in HoN. I did not get a MMR higher than my true personal skill seeing that i was the best player of the people i played with, i just happened to really enjoy playing support when playing with people i know and are in voice chat with.
People with your attitude are horrible to play with.
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if ur solo q'ing without 100% focusing on ur own play and ur own mistakes you will become an empty, raging husk incapable of interacting with other players without layers of paranoia, anger and self-satisfied smugness.
you can't account for others, you cant answer for their play, you can't beat them into some sort of submission either. all you can do is play better, yourself. dota is outrageously hard to balance for and the current system while not perfect or complete, is pretty damn good.
just be nice and make friends
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On June 03 2013 03:48 edlover420 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 03:39 Unleashing wrote:On June 03 2013 03:35 edlover420 wrote:On June 03 2013 03:32 r.Evo wrote:
So what you're saying is that you were paired with baddies much worse than you who you had to carry in a game with a visible MMR and ranking? Remember the part about the e-peen and numbers? =P I'm saying that we could adjust the roles according to our stats and have fun playing, whereas I'm not having any fun playing dota whatsoever because I keep getting forced to play focking dazzle to support people who play like they have down syndrome. Yea adjusting according to stats sure made HoN fun for me to play. I primarily stacked with friends and supported them, do you think i could play solo afterwards and play mid or carry? HAHAHA GOOD FUCKING JOKE. I'd be shouted and cursed at untill i played support. Regardless of being able to play both mid and carry just fine. BECAUSE MY GENERAL STATS WERE THAT OF A SUPPORT. What a fucking great system, amirite guise? Have 1 account to play with friends and 1 account to solo queue. Players like you ruined solo matchmaking in HoN. Due to people playing with friends and having some sort of teamplay in these matches, 90% of such players would get ratings above their true personal skill and would play terrible when they solo queued.
Really? So one has to have 2 ACCOUNTS to play? That is bullshit. Your statistics are pulled out of your ass and your assumptions are equally laughable.
Solo matchmaking in HoN was ruined by the fact that you could see others stats. the fact that blue and pink had some sort of right to mid or carry. I got so sick of it. The KD and shit mattered. I got stuck in a role without stacking and boy oh boy was it "fun". The only thing that should matter at the end of the day is win% and even that I couldn't care less about. AP was about playing what you wanted, not what other want you to play.
I hate HoNs system so much, it brought out the worst in people. You don't see it so much in DotA which is nice.
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^ Right. Unless there were smurfs in the team blue and pink had a right to play carry and mid, and orange supported. It was nice. The best 2 players played the harder roles and the worst player played the easier role. It was justice, it was how it is supposed to be if you want game to be enjoyable. Writing this I realize how much I miss hon and how bad dota system is. I'm switching back cu
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Seems like everything is working as intended.
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wow this was like the most productive discussion we have ever had.
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On June 03 2013 04:02 edlover420 wrote:
^ Right. Unless there were smurfs in the team blue and pink had a right to play carry and mid, and orange supported. It was nice. The best 2 players played the harder roles and the worst player played the easier role. It was justice, it was how it is supposed to be if you want game to be enjoyable. Writing this I realize how much I miss hon and how bad dota system is. I'm switching back cu
You wont be missed at all, your attitude is everything that was wrong with HoNs system and what made it absolutely horrible to play.
Also, common misconceptions:
Orange is not by default a worse player than blue.
5 and 4 are not easier roles than 2 and 1.
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edlover420 - what a player
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On June 03 2013 03:53 Klonere wrote:
if ur solo q'ing without 100% focusing on ur own play and ur own mistakes you will become an empty, raging husk incapable of interacting with other players without layers of paranoia, anger and self-satisfied smugness.
you can't account for others, you cant answer for their play, you can't beat them into some sort of submission either. all you can do is play better, yourself. dota is outrageously hard to balance for and the current system while not perfect or complete, is pretty damn good.
just be nice and make friends
this post deserves a star or something.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On June 03 2013 04:02 edlover420 wrote:
^ Right. Unless there were smurfs in the team blue and pink had a right to play carry and mid, and orange supported. It was nice. The best 2 players played the harder roles and the worst player played the easier role. It was justice, it was how it is supposed to be if you want game to be enjoyable. Writing this I realize how much I miss hon and how bad dota system is. I'm switching back cu
There should be a GD hall of fame for the best posts and this needs to be up there together with PA outfarming Antimage and all the classics. <3
Also, someone should find the first post about treant in GD, that deserves to be there as well.
edit: I'm being sarcastic sometimes that's not obvious on the internet. I'm not even sure if the poster wasn't straight up trolling reading it again now.
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On June 03 2013 04:07 Unleashing wrote:
Orange is not by default a worse player than blue.
5 and 4 is not an easier role than 2 and 1.
I just want to point this out, playing 4/5 decently is harder than playing 1 decently
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On June 03 2013 04:12 Qbek wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 04:07 Unleashing wrote:
Orange is not by default a worse player than blue.
5 and 4 is not an easier role than 2 and 1. I just want to point this out, playing 4/5 decently is harder than playing 1 decently
I personally find the 1 position to be the easiest of all.
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On June 03 2013 04:11 cecek wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 04:02 edlover420 wrote:
^ Right. Unless there were smurfs in the team blue and pink had a right to play carry and mid, and orange supported. It was nice. The best 2 players played the harder roles and the worst player played the easier role. It was justice, it was how it is supposed to be if you want game to be enjoyable. Writing this I realize how much I miss hon and how bad dota system is. I'm switching back cu There should be a GD hall of fame for the best posts and this needs to be up there together with PA outfarming Antimage and all the classics. <3 Also, someone should find the first post about treant in GD, that deserves to be there as well.
yeah paper if you could kindly put this post under news in the op we would really appreciate it.
-you got rid of the news section!
"had a right" and "it was justice" instant classics
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On June 03 2013 04:02 edlover420 wrote:
^ Right. Unless there were smurfs in the team blue and pink had a right to play carry and mid, and orange supported. It was nice. The best 2 players played the harder roles and the worst player played the easier role. It was justice, it was how it is supposed to be if you want game to be enjoyable. Writing this I realize how much I miss hon and how bad dota system is. I'm switching back cu
Yeah, carry is the hardest role in dota. That's exactly why DK is winning everything, because they got the best carry in Burning... This misconception is the whole reason no one wants to play support. They get no glory, they get no respect in pubs. Every role is crucial for the team.
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On June 03 2013 04:11 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 03:53 Klonere wrote:
if ur solo q'ing without 100% focusing on ur own play and ur own mistakes you will become an empty, raging husk incapable of interacting with other players without layers of paranoia, anger and self-satisfied smugness.
you can't account for others, you cant answer for their play, you can't beat them into some sort of submission either. all you can do is play better, yourself. dota is outrageously hard to balance for and the current system while not perfect or complete, is pretty damn good.
just be nice and make friends this post deserves a star or something.
maybe a mod note on top of the GD thread
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Make Klonere a blue poster.
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Edlover's toxic attitude aside, the point of having multiple accounts playing different roles I feel is valid. Hell, that's what I do to make the most out of the system.
I have an account that I solo Q exclusively. An account I stack with exclusively. And my main general fuck-around account. That helps me quite a bit. And yet, I can't help but feel this starts a slippery slope down having a solo Q carry account, solo Q roamer account, solo Q support account, team Q carry account, team Q support account etc.
After all, I'm sure my carry MMR would be much higher than my support MMR (team or solo Q) because carry is such a brainless role. So if I play carry 20 games in a row, and then switch to support, and get my team crushed.. is that the system's fault?
No wonder not all dota games feel even.. my MMR between my solo Q ganker skill and my team Q support skill are probably worlds apart. And yet you gotta match the players before they pick their roles. That's a tall order for valve.
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On June 03 2013 04:16 hootsushi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 04:02 edlover420 wrote:
^ Right. Unless there were smurfs in the team blue and pink had a right to play carry and mid, and orange supported. It was nice. The best 2 players played the harder roles and the worst player played the easier role. It was justice, it was how it is supposed to be if you want game to be enjoyable. Writing this I realize how much I miss hon and how bad dota system is. I'm switching back cu Yeah, carry is the hardest role in dota. That's exactly why DK is winning everything, because they got the best carry in Burning... This misconception is the whole reason no one wants to play support. They get no glory, they get no respect in pubs. Every role is crucial for the team.
Also it's a lot less obvious how to play support right, and it changes a lot per game. A safelane carry just farms all game then 1v5s but supports have to adapt to the situation all game to much more of an extreme.
If you just babysit the safelane carry for 15 minutes then yea support sucks but people need to realize that there is so much more to support than just that. I played a roaming CM support ganker the other day and single handedly turned the tide for two lanes with smoke ganks etc which gave sniper/morph enough space to win the lategame. Definitely one of the most fun games I've played recently.
Note, I'm not disagreeing with you in quotes, just expanding 
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EPT
