EPTPubs in DotA aren't worse than ranked games in LoL. Especially since the existence of a ranked queue creates the perception that unranked matchmaking is a second-class queue.
General Discussion - Page 2983
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Pubs in DotA aren't worse than ranked games in LoL. Especially since the existence of a ranked queue creates the perception that unranked matchmaking is a second-class queue. | ||
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
On June 03 2013 02:55 RuskiPanda wrote: As opposed to someone saying they deserve mid because they called it first and then going 0-10. Rather have some noob call mid first and lose and hopefully gain something from that match than having this noob never playing mid because his stats are not good enough for some assholes in the team. The amount of people that got "stuck" in a support role because of their player stats in HoN was sad. How are you suppose to improve and enjoy the game if you never get to play something out of your comfort zone? | ||
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BlitzerSC
Italy8800 Posts
-The HoN story. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Either you know yourself well enough to measure your own improvement, or you don't but are still happier deluding yourself into believing you're improving than being told that you aren't. As such, I feel the "I need ladder rating to track my improvement" argument which is commonly raised feels worthless to me. The only people that aren't happier are the assholes who want to flail their e-penises around and can't do that without a number to show. And even then, the rest of us are happier when those guys can't do that. The other practical use of visible rating is the top end pubstars being a potential source of talent for teams, but that function is accomplished by a top 100 list or similar. | ||
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Najda
United States3765 Posts
On June 03 2013 02:55 RuskiPanda wrote: As opposed to someone saying they deserve mid because they called it first and then going 0-10. There is no way to know they are going to go 0-10 and if two people are close enough in skill to be matche together, then individual game performance matters a lot more than whatever the slight mmr difference is. Yeah maybe the higher guy has a 55% chance of doing better in mid, but demanding mid after someone already has picked for it and called it is much more harmful to the teams overall chance of winning. | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
On June 03 2013 03:00 Yoshi- wrote: Never said that mmr visible will improve anything, just that the dota matchmaking isn't good. Why do you think dota matchmaking is bad? I think it's really good. e: clarified | ||
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Najda
United States3765 Posts
The problem is that team composition + cohesion are factors that matchmaking can't really account for, resulting in completely onesided games even when everybody is reletively even in skill. Not to mention how people can get stuck in roles or with heroes they aren't as good with. | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
On June 03 2013 03:20 Najda wrote: The problem is that team composition + cohesion are factors that matchmaking can't really account for, resulting in completely onesided games even when everybody is reletively even in skill. Not to mention how people can get stuck in roles or with heroes they aren't as good with. Yep but that's not exclusive to dota. Actually it does do some accounting for cohesion (e.g. weighing stacks more, etc), but I think the matchmaking does a wonderful job with what info it can possibly have. Certainly no worse than other dotas like lol or hon. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On June 03 2013 02:22 Yoshi- wrote: It works better than what dota currently has. A team matchmaking that is barely used, and pub games that are either crap or crap My TMM queues are usually shorter than my solo queues. It's used a lot. Pubs should be a chaotic clusterfuck because you get thrown together with completely random people. If you want to play DotA as a 5 men teamgame then TMM is there for you - including a rating. | ||
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InfectedGoat
Canada444 Posts
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Najda
United States3765 Posts
On June 03 2013 03:22 JeeJee wrote: Yep but that's not exclusive to dota. Actually it does do some accounting for cohesion (e.g. weighing stacks more, etc), but I think the matchmaking does a wonderful job with what info it can possibly have. Certainly no worse than other dotas like lol or hon. Oh no, I wasnt saying other games do it better. I was just saying that a perfect matchmaking system in a 5v5 game with so many variables is impossible. Although it'd be interesting if you could queue as a support or carry etc. that might actually be a decent idea. If you pick a role and then it could suggest heroes that fit that role, no only would team compositions of pub get better but it would be helpful for pubs. | ||
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edlover420
349 Posts
On June 03 2013 03:10 TheYango wrote: I personally feel that even with a "ranked" mode, no visible MMR makes everyone happier. Either you know yourself well enough to measure your own improvement, or you don't but are still happier deluding yourself into believing you're improving than being told that you aren't. As such, I feel the "I need ladder rating to track my improvement" argument which is commonly raised feels worthless to me. The only people that aren't happier are the assholes who want to flail their e-penises around and can't do that without a number to show. And even then, the rest of us are happier when those guys can't do that. The other practical use of visible rating is the top end pubstars being a potential source of talent for teams, but that function is accomplished by a top 100 list or similar. I disagree. Like last game 1/9/3 PL called me a baddie when I was by 3 levels the highest on our team on a support omniknight and I couldn't even invite him to look my overall stats. Also after 130 games still hoovering about 65% win ratio I feel like people who I'm getting matched with aren't getting any better at all. If there was a visible MMR I could at least see that I am getting somewhere. Thirdly I tried to find a group of guys to play with and out of 3 groups I played with 2 were much under my skill level and one was way to good for me. Without a ranking I feel like it is very hard for me to find a team who would be appropriate for me. And me coming from pretty high level HoN, I feel like even tho dota2 is more balanced hero wise, the players I've met so far are even more retarded than the ones in HoN. Also while playing at 1800-1900 in HoN where there were stats in picking phase I could tell to players with 0.6 kd ratios to let me pick carries/mid as they could see in my profile that I was always over 4k+a:d and they would generally let me carry them. Here in dota I cannot convince baddies to let me carry them and it always ends up with biggest noob playing carry and me and one other decent guy playing wardwhores. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
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edlover420
349 Posts
On June 03 2013 03:32 r.Evo wrote: So what you're saying is that you were paired with baddies much worse than you who you had to carry in a game with a visible MMR and ranking? Remember the part about the e-peen and numbers? =P I'm saying that we could adjust the roles according to our stats and have fun playing, whereas I'm not having any fun playing dota whatsoever because I keep getting forced to play focking dazzle to support people who play like they have down syndrome. | ||
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toemn
Germany915 Posts
i cant wrap my head around on why he isnt picked up anymore. it is still easy as hell to jungle if done right and he brings the best push of any hero in the game.. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Najda
United States3765 Posts
I don't agree woth the rest of your points though because it's majorly flexing your e-peen. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On June 03 2013 03:35 edlover420 wrote: I'm saying that we could adjust the roles according to our stats and have fun playing, whereas I'm not having any fun playing dota whatsoever because I keep getting forced to play focking dazzle to support people who play like they have down syndrome. Yea adjusting according to stats sure made HoN fun for me to play. I primarily stacked with friends and supported them, do you think i could play solo afterwards and play mid or carry? HAHAHA GOOD FUCKING JOKE. I'd be shouted and cursed at untill i played support. Regardless of being able to play both mid and carry just fine. BECAUSE MY GENERAL STATS WERE THAT OF A SUPPORT. What a fucking great system, amirite guise? | ||
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Klonere
Ireland4123 Posts
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edlover420
349 Posts
On June 03 2013 03:39 Unleashing wrote: Yea adjusting according to stats sure made HoN fun for me to play. I primarily stacked with friends and supported them, do you think i could play solo afterwards and play mid or carry? HAHAHA GOOD FUCKING JOKE. I'd be shouted and cursed at untill i played support. Regardless of being able to play both mid and carry just fine. BECAUSE MY GENERAL STATS WERE THAT OF A SUPPORT. What a fucking great system, amirite guise? Have 1 account to play with friends and 1 account to solo queue. Players like you ruined solo matchmaking in HoN. Due to people playing with friends and having some sort of teamplay in these matches, 90% of such players would get ratings above their true personal skill and would play terrible when they solo queued. | ||
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