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Itsmedudeman

United States19229 Posts

June 02 2013 10:46 GMT

#59601

Well the thing is there's no way you can justify that valve should be supporting teams to that extent while losing their best form of making money from dota. Valve is a business. The more profitable dota is, the more money they can put into it. I mean for fuck's sake it's been 3 years and the game STILL isn't out, servers are hardly stable in China, and Dota is losing out in China to LoL fast because of it. There's just way more priorities they need to take care of over hand holding teams.

teapoted

United Kingdom24425 Posts

June 02 2013 10:47 GMT

#59602

I wasn't talking about Valve, I was talking about dota2lounge.

There are much better things Valve could do to support teams.

cecek

Czech Republic18921 Posts

June 02 2013 10:49 GMT

#59603

You can do something with keys. You can open chests with them. Keys are already used as a currency in the economy, it wouldn't make any sense to try and force another one artificially like that, and I think it wouldn't even work, to be honest.

Pennants need to be changed by Valve to make them better. I think you should be able to "charge" them. Kind of like a subscription system, I think that would make sense. A charged pennant would give you more benefits over a normal one, or something.
I could see an upgrade to just the "games viewed: x" thing. Maybe you could add bookmarks to your favorite moments of the team, or it could upgrade every time you see the team score a rampage or smthn and make it look slightly different.
Someone had an idea that you should be able to equip pennants to couriers and have them carry them in game, which I think is an amazing idea. It could look better the more games you've seen or the higher level it is.
I think there could be a system to "follow" pro players, and every time they stream you could watch them, and if you had a charged pennant, you could get times drops every time he makes a big play. Basically a personal stream inside Dota 2.

I think the pennant system is very underutilized, but forcing it to become a currency on a third party betting website is not the way to make it better, I don't think.

Itsmedudeman

United States19229 Posts

June 02 2013 10:49 GMT

#59604

Ok, but can I ask why would people want to bet with pennants over any other item? It's not like just because you can bet with them they'd suddenly become a form of currency. You can't force people to want pennants that way when they can still bet with commons and rares. It would never catch on. If I said you could bet with rocks, is that something a lot of people would want to do?

You have to ask the question, why would a person want to bet for pennants when they can bet for rares? To support the teams? Why do they have to bet to do that? The answer is they don't.

cecek

Czech Republic18921 Posts

June 02 2013 10:54 GMT

#59605

Well, teapoted talked about a system that you would load pennants onto your account and then you wouldn't have to fuck around with the bots everytime you wanted to bet, so it would be much easier. Another thing is, I doubt people would buy pennants just to bet. Betting is so successful now, because everyone already has useless items they can bet with.

teapoted

United Kingdom24425 Posts

June 02 2013 11:29 GMT

#59606

People would buy pennants just to bet.

I'm people, I would do it.

eSports is a small industry, so things as simple as 'supporting your favorite team' is a big driver of sales.

Yoshi-

Germany10227 Posts

June 02 2013 11:30 GMT

#59607

And than dota2lounge goes down and everyone is sitting on worthless pennants

teapoted

United Kingdom24425 Posts

June 02 2013 11:32 GMT

#59608

Pennants are no more worthless than cosmetics.

In fact pennants are more valuable if people start trading with them. I'm guessing you people have never played Diablo 2 as it pertains to economies within games.

Itsmedudeman

United States19229 Posts

June 02 2013 11:44 GMT

#59609

Your diablo 2 argument makes no sense. What form of currency in the game do people use that's literally worthless otherwise? Forum gold? Forum gold has obvious advantages over in game currency as it can't be duped, can be traded for many different types of stuff, and has consistent value and won't get deleted on reset. Pennants show no advantage over keys as a currency.

There's already a better and more stable form of currency in the system called keys though. You can't just make them worth something. No one will buy into that shit. Let's say I'm trading items and some guy is trying to give me pennants as a form of currency. Who would want that over keys? The only people who would ever care about pennants are people who buy into supporting teams and want to bet with them for some reason when they're worthless. You can't have a currency when only a few handful of people want them.

You have to make them worth something first before you try and get people to bet them. Not the other way around, and especially not when you can already bet useful items that you can use outside betting like rares.

teapoted

United Kingdom24425 Posts

June 02 2013 11:47 GMT

#59610

Making people able to bet with them is making them worth something. Betting is a game.

It would work.

Pennants aren't 'literally useless' either. In Diablo 2 at one point or another almost anything has been used as a common currency. It really didn't matter that SoJ's were a useful item, you didn't have and trade it because it was.

Pennants don't show an advantage as a currency over keys, I never said they did. I said people will buy into the system to support teams, they won't do that for keys.

Itsmedudeman

United States19229 Posts

June 02 2013 11:57 GMT

#59611

It wouldn't because you can already bet with things that is widely superior and actually has worth to everyone.

Not only that but the only people who will participate in that game are the people buying pennants to support the team. You can't get pennants any other way than to buy them, and why would someone want to buy into that game when they can just bet with things like rares which they actually find personal value in?

teapoted

United Kingdom24425 Posts

June 02 2013 12:02 GMT

#59612

On June 02 2013 20:57 Itsmedudeman wrote:
It wouldn't because you can already bet with things that is widely superior and actually has worth to everyone.

Not only that but the only people who will participate in that game are the people buying pennants to support the team. You can't get pennants any other way than to buy them, and why would someone want to buy into that game when they can just bet with things like rares which they actually find personal value in?

I've already said why.

It would work. Does it mean it would be as popular as item betting? No, but that's because most people in the item betting system probably haven't bought a single thing in the store and just use found items. It's not for the same audience.

Itsmedudeman

United States19229 Posts

June 02 2013 12:04 GMT

#59613

The thing is you don't need to have this game in place to spur sales if your only target audience are literally the ones who just want to support their team. If they want to support their team then they can buy as many pennants as they want or just donate directly, but there's no reason that even these people would want more pennants as there is no benefit to having more pennants.

teapoted

United Kingdom24425 Posts

June 02 2013 12:05 GMT

#59614

Maybe there's no reason 'for you'.

To me, it makes perfect sense. And even with only 10 people in the system you'd have a value on pennants to those people in that system that it doesn't matter what it is outside. And if there's enough people then the value outside will be irrelevant to what it is inside the system. (in regards to trading for other currencies or items)

You might have to game'ify it a bit. But it would work, nothing you've said would imply otherwise, just that it might not be as big as item betting. Which I've never claimed, this is for people who 'want' to spend money.

cecek

Czech Republic18921 Posts

June 02 2013 12:58 GMT

#59615

Dude, there's keys already. There's a big amount of them in circulation, they are useful for opening chests, they can be easily traded (unlike pennants that stack and you can't split them) and people are used to them. It's the perfect currency and is good for 99% of transactions. There is no way pennants would catch on as a currency, even if you could bet with them on lounge.