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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 03 2013 07:55 SKC wrote: It's time to do a Dota TAS with both teams playing "perfectly". It may look really cool or stupidly boring. hardest part would be determine what perfect would be. | ||
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ViZe
United States1513 Posts
 I agree that support is the definitely the hardest role. Not because it is actually more difficult to play, but because it is way hard to watch your 82 minute game in the hands of some stupid ass Doombringer who mutes his whole team 40 minutes in | ||
Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On June 03 2013 08:06 PrinceXizor wrote: hardest part would be determine what perfect would be. Never getting picked off, perfect map awareness, never taking bad engagements, etc. Mistakeless games generally means less fights as rarely do both teams ever go so even through the early game that they feel they can fight each other and win every time. Most teams look to take fights only when they have the advantage and not even when it's necessarily equal either. | ||
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gaymon
Germany1023 Posts
On June 03 2013 10:09 Itsmedudeman wrote: Never getting picked off, perfect map awareness, never taking bad engagements, etc. Mistakeless games generally means less fights as rarely do both teams ever go so even through the early game that they feel they can fight each other and win every time. Most teams look to take fights only when they have the advantage and not even when it's necessarily equal either. Although achieving nearly perfect mechanical skill is possible by doing that, it is not possible and will probably stay impossible for a long time to programm a bot who is actually decent at the game, the game is far too diverse to properly account for every situation existing. | ||
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Mithhaike
Singapore2759 Posts
On June 03 2013 04:07 Unleashing wrote: You wont be missed at all, your attitude is everything that was wrong with HoNs system and what made it absolutely horrible to play. Also, common misconceptions: Orange is not by default a worse player than blue. 5 and 4 are not easier roles than 2 and 1. Wow edlover420 is definitely a tool. What do you mean its justice and what made it a given that there is a best 2 players and the worst player. Who can even define best player objectively? You missed the point of us saying because of this system, the orange guy will never get to play anything but support because its a vicious cycle as he only has support stats. What a stupid way to play a game when you cant even play what you want because your forced into a certain role. IMO Supports are harder to play than a carry FOR ME,how hard or how easy something is, is always for a certain person only. Carry's job is to get the items outfarm the enemy team. When that's done, the carry explodes and destroy the enemy team. However to get the farm, having good support is CRUCIAL. There's nothing as important as a good support who can create the space for the carry. It's a symbiosis between the 2 roles that win games. One can't win without the other. There's no point arguing which role is more important guys, their equally important. | ||
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Witten
United States2094 Posts
On June 03 2013 10:47 Mithhaike wrote: Wow edlover420 is definitely a tool. What do you mean its justice and what made it a given that there is a best 2 players and the worst player. Who can even define best player objectively? You missed the point of us saying because of this system, the orange guy will never get to play anything but support because its a vicious cycle as he only has support stats. What a stupid way to play a game when you cant even play what you want because your forced into a certain role. IMO Supports are harder to play than a carry FOR ME,how hard or how easy something is, is always for a certain person only. Carry's job is to get the items outfarm the enemy team. When that's done, the carry explodes and destroy the enemy team. However to get the farm, having good support is CRUCIAL. There's nothing as important as a good support who can create the space for the carry. It's a symbiosis between the 2 roles that win games. One can't win without the other. There's no point arguing which role is more important guys, their equally important. I agree with this guy in terms of it depending on the person. I prefer to play support at the moment and I honestly believe that I am better at it. I have a harder time playing a carry because of how weak most of them are in the early game. I'm actually a very good last hitter, but I don't deal well with harass and usually struggle in a carry role during the early parts of the game. As a support I feel much more useful early on and feel I have more of an impact and can help others reach the stage they need to be at. But I'm just a high scrub so I'm not expert on anything, just my own personal opinion. | ||
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DeltaX
United States287 Posts
On the other hand, if you are in a trilane as a support, your options open WAY up. You can go for kills on the enemy lane very often, easily pull or gank mid. I find this to be much more fun and to be much harder decision wise. In both roles however, landing a key disrupt or stun can easily go unnoticed, but can be huge if you get them at the right time. | ||
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run.at.me
Australia550 Posts
I also think in pubs position 1, and high impact roles are definitely the hardest simply because you can rely on no one but yourself in achieving your goal - whether it's last hits, or finding areas to farm, or setting up intelligent ganks. While not undermining the position 5's role, against similarly lower level players, a well executed position 1 vs a well executed position 5, the position 1 will have a much higher impact (all other things held constant). Eh, too hard to make conclusions like this anyway considering how many variables there are | ||
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PromisE
Philippines151 Posts
Why don't we narrow down variables a bit? Take look at a consistent team like Alliance. What position would be the hardest to play on this team? | ||
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Shaella
United States14828 Posts
On June 03 2013 14:22 PromisE wrote: You guys are generalizing this way too much. Why don't we narrow down variables a bit? Take look at a consistent team like Alliance. What position would be the hardest to play on this team? Support, cause you'd have to make sure Loda doesn't feed boosh. | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
I think we can't make an overall determination of which position needs the best player to be playing it, because the development of the role changes drastically at every phase of the game and for every major item bought. This also has to take into account the style of the team (be it defensive, aggressive, reactive, etc), and the composition. That said, I also think you can at least highlight the positions important for every aspect of the game. Early game, the least effective and most "useless" position would definitely be the 1. Tasked primarily with last hitting and surviving, the pure 1 is not really in the position to dictate anything. However, a semi-carry hero like Mirana would have a much bigger impact early game with clutch arrows than the purely 1 heroes like AM. I think at this stage, 4 and 5 really shine. They can begin the snowball if they gank well enough, or they can create the space the 1 requires for the game-clinching items/levels. While the 2 is busy trying to outduel the opposite 2, and the 3's busy finding ways to get levels, the 4 and 5 will be the ones to dictate the pace of the game with their TP supports, smoke ganks, etc. Once the ultimates get leveled (level 6-9), I think the solo mid becomes the most important position. At this point, the 2's role is to create pressure on the whole map, ganking left and right and picking up kills here and there. Not to mention establishing rune control and giving the 4 and 5 space to get deep into enemy territory for offensive ward placement. Personally, I play 2 most often (finding QoP to be the most versatile 2), and I can usually "decide" a game at this point. If I've gotten ganked a few times and can't pick up some kills from level 6-9, we usually lose. If I do, we usually win. For me this is the true "snowball" point in the game, and the master of the snowball is the 2 (from what I can see, Nyx is the scariest 2 for pubs. Bat and Mag probably for pro-games since they're better in teamfights). From this point on, if your team is snowballing, I think the 1 and 3 become the most relevant. A well farmed 1 at this point becomes unstoppable, and a 3 can provide the final blow to the coffin if the hero is a high-impact 3 (like offlane bat/mag). However, if your team is losing, the 4 and 5 are very important to open up a come back scenario. They have to survive ganks or not get ganked (which is incredibly difficult at this stage), while ensuring vision and map control along with the 2. At the end of the day, I think 3 doesn't ever become the most important position, but can lay claim to being the x-factor for all the teamfights, from the early game to the late game. So it will probably always be the second most important position (which is why YYF and LOH are the ones I consider to be the MVPs of their teams and the International). So in a way, your skill at the different facets, your personality (patient or aggressive?), and your overall game plan will dictate which positions become the most important. For DK, 1 has always been the face of their team (Burniiiiiiiiiing) but I notice that they become utterly scary only when Super and/or ROTK play well. Rarely has Burning completely carried them on his back. For iG, I feel that the 2, 3, and 4 positions are, with some variations, the most important positions, with particular emphasis on 3 and 4. This just shows that they excel at up-tempo, aggressive play, pushing towers earlier than any other team and committing to non-stop ganking at earlier stages than most teams. For LGD, 2 and 3 are the most important because they excel at team-fights. I think Alliance, being a very defensive team, puts a lot of faith on the play of 1, 2, and 3, because they're usually not looking for an early game snowball but midgame clashing/ganking. Anyway, those are my 2 cents on this topic. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
We had a Chinese teacher to teach them Chinese, and she fell in love with one of them. Western players(Pajkatt) are ladykillers. Source: http://2p.com/486680_1/LGDRuru-I-hope-we-can-join-more-EUNA-tournaments.htm | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
shes cute too | ||
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w.s
Sweden850 Posts
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/37lzd.jpg) So just played ly0n and ladder and won and felt the urge to point out that he could be at ti3 now (dignitas), and he seems to have gotten upset. Does anyone know the story with cwm? I'm genuinely curious now | ||
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Benjef
United Kingdom6921 Posts
anyway cwm is generally known as a player with a bad attitude and he team hops alot. | ||
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EmilA
Denmark4618 Posts
On June 03 2013 20:26 Benjef wrote: Never heard or Ly0n. But looks like lifestealer was being a dick. Hope that wasn't you. anyway cwm is generally known as a player with a bad attitude and he team hops alot. I think he was on dignitas when it was a romanian (?) lowbob team but idk. Never heard of the guy ever since and I don't think he is a competitive player anymore? Comewithme being... comewithme can't surpise anyone. | ||
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nojok
France15846 Posts
On June 03 2013 14:59 Shaella wrote: Support, cause you'd have to make sure Loda doesn't feed boosh. More seriously, as we saw them lose to mouz without loda, I find him way better than black for exemple. Loda can play tons of heroes and can play with low farm. I think his bad reputation comes msotly from chronospheres and EE story, no? | ||
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Gheizen64
Italy2077 Posts
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
On June 03 2013 21:13 nojok wrote: More seriously, as we saw them lose to mouz without loda, I find him way better than black for exemple. Loda can play tons of heroes and can play with low farm. I think his bad reputation comes msotly from chronospheres and EE story, no? He gets something similar to hvost by being picked off and making very poor decisions causing team to loose. It's just what every carry player gets when they play poorly, their mistakes are more apparent than the support players mistakes as their hero has more impact in teamfights later. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
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