EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 2949
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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Hondelul
1999 Posts
On May 30 2013 04:47 Comeh wrote: Did I miss some embarrassing starcraft 2 history (didn't really follow sc2 much) Nothing embarrasing, just a fun project for exactly that kind of people with "but if X>Y and Y>Z that means X>Z". It´s both on SC2 General here and http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Unofficial_World_Champion . Edit: In term of results, not mathematical speaking, ahem. | ||
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MiX
United States109 Posts
On May 30 2013 04:47 Comeh wrote: Did I miss some embarrassing starcraft 2 history (didn't really follow sc2 much) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354772 Here you go. It's a running joke about people using the transitive property to determine who's the best between two players. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On May 30 2013 04:38 MiX wrote: People like inhouse leagues like IXDL because people actually play dota the way its meant to be played. What I mean is people actually play supports, they get support items on supports, and people tri lane so you can gain experience playing in those. Also, it's captains mode which is more fun than all pick. I am in the top of very high que and people still don't understand how to pull or play a support in general. And I don't feel like playing support all game for terrible players. And your teammates feel the same. About DK, I don't think we can put them with IG and LGD. DK had 1 month, perhaps 2 of good play in one year, not sure they would be a top team in western tournaments. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On May 30 2013 05:02 MrCon wrote: And your teammates feel the same. About DK, I don't think we can put them with IG and LGD. DK had 1 month, perhaps 2 of good play in one year, not sure they would be a top team in western tournaments. They would be a top team in western tournaments, but they aren't at the level of IG and LGD (I'm really curious about TongFu right now, and if they are just hot, or completely dominant). | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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MiX
United States109 Posts
On May 30 2013 05:02 MrCon wrote: And your teammates feel the same. About DK, I don't think we can put them with IG and LGD. DK had 1 month, perhaps 2 of good play in one year, not sure they would be a top team in western tournaments. Maybe I misrepresented what I meant. I am saying I shouldn't be forced to play support because everyone else is either too selfish to play support or too lazy to learn how to. I love playing support; it's my favorite role. I am not, however, going to play support for a player who refuses to play anything other than carry. If you are a support in a pub it almost always means you are the ONLY support, which means all you do all game is buy wards all game. This is incredibly boring. If there are multiple supports you can actually get some items on your hero that aren't wards and the game becomes infinitely more fun. On May 30 2013 05:09 TheYango wrote: Playing support in pubs the way you see them played in competitive games is a good way to lose games. What do you mean? | ||
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Grettin
42416 Posts
Starts in 2h30mins @ twitch.tv/onemoregametv | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
You still fundamentally play that role of setting up your teammates in the early game, but the onus is on you to find which of your teammates that are in the farming roles are reliable players and set up those players to carry the game. More often than not, that player isn't the carry player. Statistically, the carry player is only the best player on your team (not including yourself) 1/4 of the time, so the other 3/4 of the time, you need to adapt how you play based on evaluating who that best player is. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On May 30 2013 05:20 TheYango wrote: Freefarming a carry at the expense of your own development just has a lot less value in pub games. A competitive support has a certain trust in his carry's ability to make use of the space given to him to farm, but you pretty much can never go into a pub game, put that trust in a random stranger, and expect him to win the game for you. You still fundamentally play that role of setting up your teammates in the early game, but the onus is on you to find which of your teammates that are in the farming roles are reliable players and set up those players to carry the game. More often than not, that player isn't the carry player. Statistically, the carry player is only the best player on your team (not including yourself) 1/4 of the time, so the other 3/4 of the time, you need to adapt how you play based on evaluating who that best player is. "How to play supports in pubs", AKA "Why I'm stealing your last hits in lane, Comeh" - written by TheYango + Show Spoiler + It's essentially right, however  | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
For example, it might be the case that your mid player is actually the best player on your team, but he's stuck in a hopelessly bad matchup (e.g. Tiny vs. QoP). If he's set up well he's the most likely to carry the game, but with no help, he's unlikely ever to develop if the matchup plays the way it should. However, a first blood that secures him his Bottle, or saving runes for him so he gets a critical rune that allows him a kill (haste, invis) might just get that snowball rolling to the point where he can turn around his lane and take over the game. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
AL got DQ from The Defense 4 due to FF games. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
Go gank mid, go gank suicide, go kill stuff. A good player in a pub on support can make a lot of kills happen. If you're just sitting behind your carry, trying to pull creeps the entire game thinking you're doing anything is probably the worst way to play pub support. Play support to win lanes, not protect some random guy and pray he can carry you for it. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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trifecta
United States6795 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On May 30 2013 05:33 TheYango wrote: One thing that can often be an indicator at the beginning of the game for you is starting items. While not always reliable because there will happen to be good players that take super greedy item starts, it's often a mark of a BAD player if his starting item choice is bad. Since pub supports never have enough gold to buy everything they need (especially if the other support isn't helping out), it can help you prioritize starting items. If your off-laner is good, you can buy wards for him to block the enemy pull. If your mid laner is good, you can start with a smoke (this is also good if the other support seems to know what he's doing and you two can double roam) and be ready to upgrade the flying courier sooner so he can bottle-crow. If your carry looks reliable, then you can start sentries to secure your pull to help him control the lane. You can never buy all of these things, but a cursory evaluation of the other players can help you prioritize in the beginning. Unfortunately, you reach a point where players know enough to know starting items, but nothing else. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On May 30 2013 05:38 TheYango wrote: Right, which is why I said it's not reliable. But you still once in a while get that guy who picks PL and starts QB Slippers and you know right away to just go help the other two lanes because that guy isn't going to carry anything. What about people who pick treant and go 4 gauntlets. >.> | ||
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