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On May 13 2013 17:04 EmilA wrote:
Predictions on Empire v DD? Empire 59 % bets on the lounge. I've betted against them ever since their redraft, aren't these odds pretty obscure for a team consistently fucking everything up?
I think DD will win.
On May 13 2013 17:05 Laserist wrote:
Western teams do mistakes, Chinese don't. Also western seems one level below of top SEA and chinese teams and even 2 level below of IG. Navi is definitely weaker now so I don't expect any solid results from western teams in TI3. Also Alliance and Liquid hype will end when solid Chinese play appears. Results probably will be IG> Chinese & SEA > West. I'd be surprised if any west team drags beyond quarter.
I always see people say CHINESE TEAMS DON'T MAKE MISTAKES
Yes. They do.
Overrated as hell.
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On May 13 2013 16:58 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 16:53 Shaella wrote:On May 13 2013 16:52 r.Evo wrote:
No one cares about how "versatile" or "experimental" you are when you can't show the results to back it up. If those aren't there you are plain and simply bad in comparison to others who can do so.
So far I haven't seen those results, I guess I'll be proven wrong when western teams take top #3 at TI3. ... Alliance hasn't produced results? Liquid hasn't? they are big fishes in a small pond it's like korea vs the rest of the world in stacraft,no one gives a shit that you are the best in NA because a korean B teamer will rape you any day 9/10 times. Until liquid and alliance meet asians at a lan it's kinda pointless to talk about how good they are fyi I want liquid to do good and wish them all the best but personally I think TI3 and G1 will be a disgusting beat down for every team from the west lol
I'd put LGD.int and Alliance with the same odds to do well vs any team except IG if they play at their best
Not so much with N'avi / Liquid, even if I have more faith in N'avi to raise their game
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28103 Posts
On May 13 2013 17:05 Laserist wrote:
Western teams do mistakes, Chinese don't. Also western seems one level below of top SEA and chinese teams and even 2 level below of IG. Navi is definitely weaker now so I don't expect any solid results from western teams in TI3. Also Alliance and Liquid hype will end when solid Chinese play appears. Results probably will be IG> Chinese & SEA > West. I'd be surprised if any west team drags beyond quarter.
"Western teams do mistakes, Chinese don't"
well...
More like Western teams make mistakes, Chinese teams make less mistakes. To say they don't make mistakes is putting them on a pedestal they don't deserve.
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i've read in joindota that slark counters wards early on
how so ?
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On May 13 2013 17:05 Laserist wrote:
Western teams do mistakes, Chinese don't. Also western seems one level below of top SEA and chinese teams and even 2 level below of IG. Navi is definitely weaker now so I don't expect any solid results from western teams in TI3. Also Alliance and Liquid hype will end when solid Chinese play appears. Results probably will be IG> Chinese & SEA > West. I'd be surprised if any west team drags beyond quarter.
yeah of course, xiao8 buying back 3 or 4 times without achieving anything in g-league semi finals was perfect play from him and that lgd got just wisp-ck'ed clearly shows how little mistakes they do...
that ig got outdrafted by a no-ban strategy from zentih also shows that ig is perfect and never does any mistakes whatsover.
...
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On May 13 2013 17:08 Vertical wrote:
i've read in joindota that slark counters wards early on
how so ?
his ult detects when you're being seen, so you know where the enemy wards are
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On May 13 2013 17:08 Vertical wrote:
i've read in joindota that slark counters wards early on
how so ?
His ulti gets deactivated when the enemy team has vision of Slark, so it's really easy to detect enemy wards. YOu still have to buy sentries to counter them though.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 13 2013 17:06 BlitzerSC wrote:
I think Fnatic, TL and Alliance have a shot at placing at least top4.
I dunno why of all the teams, you picked Fnatic.
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On May 13 2013 17:08 TheEmulator wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 17:05 Laserist wrote:
Western teams do mistakes, Chinese don't. Also western seems one level below of top SEA and chinese teams and even 2 level below of IG. Navi is definitely weaker now so I don't expect any solid results from western teams in TI3. Also Alliance and Liquid hype will end when solid Chinese play appears. Results probably will be IG> Chinese & SEA > West. I'd be surprised if any west team drags beyond quarter. "Western teams do mistakes, Chinese don't" well... More like Western teams make mistakes, Chinese teams make less mistakes. To say they don't make mistakes is putting them on a pedestal they don't deserve.
Chinese DotA is tighter, and more controlled, and more team-based, but is a bit more predictable
Western DotA is looser and more chaotic, more individual focused, but is less predictable
thats the real difference between the two scenes.
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On May 13 2013 16:23 WindWolf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 15:56 Gheizen64 wrote:All western teams look like they're worse than last year
I dare say this, I expect Fnatic to place top-6 this tournament if they play everything right.
Huh? Fnatic is one of the weakest if not the weakest team going into TI3.
On May 13 2013 17:00 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 16:58 TheKefka wrote:On May 13 2013 16:53 Shaella wrote:On May 13 2013 16:52 r.Evo wrote:
No one cares about how "versatile" or "experimental" you are when you can't show the results to back it up. If those aren't there you are plain and simply bad in comparison to others who can do so.
So far I haven't seen those results, I guess I'll be proven wrong when western teams take top #3 at TI3. ... Alliance hasn't produced results? Liquid hasn't? they are big fishes in a small pond it's like korea vs the rest of the world in stacraft,no one gives a shit that you are the best in NA because a korean B teamer will rape you any day 9/10 times. Until liquid and alliance meet asians at a lan it's kinda pointless to talk about how good they are Well I suppose we'll see in two weeks then I think everyone underrates the western scene by a ton. -.-
Or maybe you are overrating it or underrating the Chinese scene.
Western scene is probably stronger than last year, but it remains to be seen whether there will be a Na`Vi-tier team this year. Also, the Chinese scene is a lot stronger this year. First of all they have more than a year of Dota 2 practice going into it as opposed to a few months. Also, last year DK was underperforming severely, TongFu had huge internal issues and EHOME was most likely weaker than today's "tier 2" Chinese teams.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 13 2013 17:11 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 17:08 TheEmulator wrote:On May 13 2013 17:05 Laserist wrote:
Western teams do mistakes, Chinese don't. Also western seems one level below of top SEA and chinese teams and even 2 level below of IG. Navi is definitely weaker now so I don't expect any solid results from western teams in TI3. Also Alliance and Liquid hype will end when solid Chinese play appears. Results probably will be IG> Chinese & SEA > West. I'd be surprised if any west team drags beyond quarter. "Western teams do mistakes, Chinese don't" well... More like Western teams make mistakes, Chinese teams make less mistakes. To say they don't make mistakes is putting them on a pedestal they don't deserve. Chinese DotA is tighter, and more controlled, and more team-based, but is a bit more predictable Western DotA is looser and more chaotic, more individual focused, but is less predictable thats the real difference between the two scenes.
I'm not sure I even agree with that, because there are some Western teams that have great teamplay, just awful sense of game flow.
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On May 13 2013 17:10 BlitzerSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 17:08 Vertical wrote:
i've read in joindota that slark counters wards early on
how so ? His ulti gets deactivated when the enemy team has vision of Slark, so it's really easy to detect enemy wards. YOu still have to buy sentries to counter them though.
On May 13 2013 17:10 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 17:08 Vertical wrote:
i've read in joindota that slark counters wards early on
how so ? his ult detects when you're being seen, so you know where the enemy wards are
thanks a lot to both of you <3
another question
how to know your MMR ?
someone has replied before
but i dont really get it
maybe someone can lighten me more ?
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On May 13 2013 17:14 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 17:11 Shaella wrote:On May 13 2013 17:08 TheEmulator wrote:On May 13 2013 17:05 Laserist wrote:
Western teams do mistakes, Chinese don't. Also western seems one level below of top SEA and chinese teams and even 2 level below of IG. Navi is definitely weaker now so I don't expect any solid results from western teams in TI3. Also Alliance and Liquid hype will end when solid Chinese play appears. Results probably will be IG> Chinese & SEA > West. I'd be surprised if any west team drags beyond quarter. "Western teams do mistakes, Chinese don't" well... More like Western teams make mistakes, Chinese teams make less mistakes. To say they don't make mistakes is putting them on a pedestal they don't deserve. Chinese DotA is tighter, and more controlled, and more team-based, but is a bit more predictable Western DotA is looser and more chaotic, more individual focused, but is less predictable thats the real difference between the two scenes. I'm not sure I even agree with that, because there are some Western teams that have great teamplay, just awful sense of game flow.
i'm generalizing some ofc, the team with the best teamplay is probably fnatic
but them consistency issues
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iG > LGD.int / DK / LGD.cn / TongFu > Alliance / Navi / EG > Sea > rest. Sea shall throw hard enough past group stage to let the western teams catch up.
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United States47024 Posts
The thing is, Alliance is the only Western team that seems to have any real sense of how to play fluidly lategame. Western games that pass the 40 minute mark look absolutely awful with teams having weird suicides trying to break base or take Roshan, even amongst the "top" Western teams with, again, Alliance being the only real exception to this.
Chinese teams make mistakes, but in general, they seem to have a far better handle on how the game is supposed to play lategame, and how to break base properly lategame when your advantage isn't absolutely massive.
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The west does not know how to offensive trilane properly.Not a single team does it reliably well and as a result they don't know how to play against a good one either.
Teams are going to crumble hard and fast.
As far as picks go for instance no one in the west plays a good brewmaster(see all dendi games ever with him on brew for ze lolz)which should be a top pick against china that picks/bans sylla every fucking game.Juggernaut caught on recently,west is too reliant on lifestealer/gyro/mag,etc.
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On May 13 2013 17:20 TheYango wrote:
The thing is, Alliance is the only Western team that seems to have any real sense of how to play fluidly lategame. Western games that pass the 40 minute mark look absolutely awful with teams having weird suicides trying to break base or take Roshan, even amongst the "top" Western teams with, again, Alliance being the only real exception to this.
Chinese teams make mistakes, but in general, they seem to have a far better handle on how the game is supposed to play lategame, and how to break base properly lategame when your advantage isn't absolutely massive.
this i heavily agree on, western teams tend to choke really bad in the lategame
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28103 Posts
On May 13 2013 17:11 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 17:08 TheEmulator wrote:On May 13 2013 17:05 Laserist wrote:
Western teams do mistakes, Chinese don't. Also western seems one level below of top SEA and chinese teams and even 2 level below of IG. Navi is definitely weaker now so I don't expect any solid results from western teams in TI3. Also Alliance and Liquid hype will end when solid Chinese play appears. Results probably will be IG> Chinese & SEA > West. I'd be surprised if any west team drags beyond quarter. "Western teams do mistakes, Chinese don't" well... More like Western teams make mistakes, Chinese teams make less mistakes. To say they don't make mistakes is putting them on a pedestal they don't deserve. Chinese DotA is tighter, and more controlled, and more team-based, but is a bit more predictable Western DotA is looser and more chaotic, more individual focused, but is less predictable thats the real difference between the two scenes.
yeah, my point is more generalizing. Obviously these mistakes between the scenes are very specific and vary from team to team.
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On May 13 2013 15:43 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 15:38 BlitzerSC wrote:
If you sit in the lane for 15 minutes doing nothing then it's probably boring. I suggest you should go roaming, gank someone, etc. Try to play Chen. This. Playing purely laning supports can be boring, but it's also really unreliable in pubs because you're basically banking on your carry not sucking. If you're roaming and ganking, you only need one of the other 4 people on your team to be good to snowball the game (if one of the solos knows what they're doing you snowball their lane, and if the other support is good, the two of you just run around killing all 3 lanes over and over again). EDIT: The same goes for playing 1 really. Something like AM or PL that spends half the game split-pushing can also be boring, and your team is likely to just lose the game without you. But there's a lot of good safe lane farmers that gank and teamfight just as much as the solos (CK, Tiny, Slardar, etc.) and those guys are generally more reliable for carrying pubs anyway.
Yeah, I don't play it in pubs ever. I just carry. I'm usually playing with a friend 2 or 3, usually. But i support them and its boring, especially with my one friend all he does is sit in lane and complain about my support. We play in high rating at this. It just gets boring sometimes cause i dont get to gank to anything much..
On May 13 2013 15:46 r_con wrote:
chen is really fun for support, tower pushing, and constant ganking is pretty boss. i also like shadow demon, saving people with a good disruption is so satisfying.
I am definetly trying Chen, i hear he is awesome and i've always wanted to try him!
Is there any guides or anything ? for Chen, I heard he's hard.
On May 13 2013 15:47 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 15:30 Adrian_mx wrote:
I've been playing support for the past week now with my buddies and I'm usually the guy who takes charge w/ 1 or 2, being a 4 or 5 sucks. I get so bored so easy.. does anyone have an issue with that? I feel like supporting is so boring.. Why do you feel it's boring? Some people dislike the support role, nothing wrong with that, but maybe you're not playing it optimally? Personally I love to play support since it's so dynamic. As a 1 or 2, the early game is ridiculously boring since you do NOTHING but last hit in lane, exactly the same every game. Some games you lose before you get fat, sometimes you win before you get fat, so you played a last hit bot for 20 minutes. Some other games, you finally get fat and get to destroy people, at which point it's often obvious if you will win or not. As a support, you will sometimes do very little and spend the whole game as a weak ward bitch to be sure, but oftentimes, you get to try different things (this game I should pull a lot, this game I should focus on ganking top lane, this game I should be really aggressive in lane) and usually feel like you're affecting the game at a point where it's still up in the air and even. Playing babysit Lich is probably the most boring support role you can take... everything else is kind of awesome. Just make sure to pick supports which can make plays happen.
Honestly playing support with my 5stack we got going on is awesome, last game I was roaming which i have never done with my other friends and it was just awesome! I loved it. Roaming and ganking was just awesome. We were playing in Very High, and my 5stack said I am a good support. I just don't understand someone why my other buddy says I'm bad and it gets boring, but when I play with the 5stack is hella fun even if we lose games. I still learn so much.
I also would like to know whats the difference between 4 & 5 ? I don't really understand what is more efficient.
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Western teams don't choke badly in all games that go late guys.. Good teams like TL/Fnatic etc have shown the capacity to play extremely calculated and careful dota, it just often doesn't come out. This is purely a matter of discipline and order I think, it's the main thing they still need to work on.
BTW placing the top Chinese teams on a (modest) pedestal is fine with me. But placing SEA teams on that pedestal with them is not. These teams are as inconsistent as most Western top teams.
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EPT
