EPTPeople still get annoyed seeing him picked, but purely from the perspective of balance, it's hard to say that he's still too strong. If we get another nerf as major as people are suggesting, he'll be like the next Morphling.
General Discussion - Page 2540
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
People still get annoyed seeing him picked, but purely from the perspective of balance, it's hard to say that he's still too strong. If we get another nerf as major as people are suggesting, he'll be like the next Morphling. | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
- duration - increased damage taken - less damage output any one of those? | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 07 2013 04:02 trinxified wrote: Illusions created by illusions should have a reduced something. - duration - increased damage taken - less damage output any one of those? Why, that just destroys the hero. He's meant to be a beast late game. Not even picked that often anymore. What's the point of PL if he can't win late game? People just need to suck it up and stop crying as much. | ||
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Incze
Romania2058 Posts
If anything, his agi gain could go down, maybe that magic resist nerfed Or go the morph & invoker route and destroy his early game by nerfing base damage, personally, I think this was a mistake and it would be a mistake to do it again. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
That being said, I'm not sure he deserves a nerf. He has been seen less then he before, and he probably is getting more fine overtime. Random question - someone once told me you can take a PL illusion with a HotD - is this true, or was someone lying to me? | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On April 07 2013 04:31 TheYango wrote: HotD can't target illusions. Enchantress' Enchant CAN, however (and dominates the unit, rather than slowing it). Alright, makes sense. I figured by now some team would have tried it against a PL lategame. | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10666 Posts
On April 07 2013 04:34 Comeh wrote: Alright, makes sense. I figured by now some team would have tried it against a PL lategame. SD, Enchantress, DS, and Morphling. Fight illusions with illusions! | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On April 07 2013 04:48 Emnjay808 wrote: SD, Enchantress, DS, and Morphling. Fight illusions with illusions! Not a completely ridiculous lineup, really. (lacks a center purpose, but oh well) | ||
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
odd e:working now | ||
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Dattish
Sweden6297 Posts
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Kishin2
United States7534 Posts
On April 07 2013 03:50 TheYango wrote: Using one lowers the effectiveness of the other because of the timings of the creep waves you have to use to maximize their efficiency (e.g. the normal pull has to wait 30 seconds longer for creep waves because the Rubick pull is using one and you have to wait for the next one), and because both use the Radiant hard camp. So the slightly higher gold/XP gain isn't worth putting your support in a position where he can't help the lane at all. You may as well just do normal pulling and have the support actually do something during the downtime. Also remember that you have to use a useless ward on your high ground to give vision, and using up a limited stock of wards like that is actually a significant cost. It's a complex situation. There are a lot of things the support could do depending on the hero, depending on the dire's bottom lane, depending on whether the camp gets warded, etc. A lot of times, the bottom support can use the extra time to zone out the dire's offlaner. The timings go something like this: 0:00, normal 0:30, rubick/pudge pull 1:00, normal, bot support can pull this one at 1:16ish Since neutral creeps spawn every minute, if the rubick/pudge pulls the wave every x:30, then the full wave gets denied and the bot lane support's pulls aren't any less effective except for the first. I've tested it a bit and that high ground ward is unnecessary. For pudge, all you need is a quelling blade to cut trees and rubick can do it without anything. It's not 100% guaranteed for pudge though since if you're unlucky when the neutral's spawn, you won't be able to get the appropriate angle on the big creep in time. It'll delay the pull by a wave. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
dota2lounge.com has really blown up after they got the betting system going. Now its Valve's turn to decide whether or not if they wana implementing such in-game gambling system to avoid scam and complication. | ||
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
Or at least I highly doubt that they really get 1 Million per day | ||
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convention
United States622 Posts
On April 07 2013 04:06 Numy wrote: Why, that just destroys the hero. He's meant to be a beast late game. Not even picked that often anymore. What's the point of PL if he can't win late game? People just need to suck it up and stop crying as much. The problem is more that it leads to a very uninteresting game to watch. It's just like when people did infestor/BL in SC2, no one wanted to watch that. It was boring, you knew what would happen. One person would turtle (which definitely requires less skill than playing aggressive), and if the other player couldn't end the game, or severely cripple them before the 20 minute mark, the game was over. Sure it would go on for another 20 minutes of a painful slow uneventful death, but it was over because of that, and there was nothing you could do about it EVEN IF you knew exactly what they were going for. It just requires far more skill to punish it than to execute the turtle-lategame strategy. PL is the same in that sense. You know he is going to go for a lategame build, but if he also has heroes such as KotL that lets the team turtle, then you have up till some timeframe to end the game or it's over (and that KotL makes it really really hard to end the game early). The really annoying thing is that there is no counter to PL/KotL. The only way to stop it is to kill them before the clock on your chance to win expires. Because of those good turtle heroes, it requires much much less skill to win with the turtle/PL strategy than it is to punish it. I can guarantee I'm not in the minority when I say I hate watching it. You know how the game unfolds exactly. One team turtles and the other team is on a clock. Once 45 minutes passes, you can just close the stream because the game is over. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Kishin2
United States7534 Posts
On April 07 2013 05:54 TheYango wrote: Normal pulling uses the x:30 wave about half the time if you're pulling for maximum efficiency and using double/triple pulls and not just stacks. The timings I posted there are slightly misleading. If the pudge/rubick pulls at x:30 then the earliest he can pull again is 90 seconds later. Is the pudge/rubick pulls at x:00 then he can pull again 60 seconds later. Not sure if maximum efficiency is possible, but it doesn't really matter since Dota is never about being completely optimal anyways. | ||
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BeanerBurrito
1010 Posts
Just because something is good and people pick it, doesn't make it op. At least wait awhile before starting all the "nerf now it's too op" | ||
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convention
United States622 Posts
On April 07 2013 06:11 Numy wrote: What makes dota great is that you can do a whole host of strategies to win the game. Singling out a turtle strat and saying it requires less skill/is boring to watch thus it should be removed from the game is pure whine. Bite the bullet. There have already been massive changes so that late game comes way sooner than it used to. I don't want dota to become a come that only has one style of play and finishes within 30 minutes. We really should learn what happens in other games. In HotS, the game is so much better than WoL because aggressive strategies are persistent. There is constant action everywhere at once, right from the start. In WoL with infestor/BL, there was no action until the pre-hive timing to kill zerg before he gets the invincible army together. People stopped watching the game because it was so boring. Strategies that force no action for the first 20 minutes of the game are not fun to watch. What's the point of even wasting those 20 minutes when nothing is happening. Instead, strategies that require constant action are very entertaining to watch. And it definitely is easier to turtle out a game than to have an aggressive strategy, without any question. But that is not the point, the point is still that I want an entertaining game to watch. If the one strategy that takes away from the game and makes it boring must be nerfed to do so, then I would rather have it nerfed than to close the stream if I see a KotL/PL game and go play my own game or two (we all know how long those games can last...). Even when I watch VODs, I don't watch any KotL/PL games, I rarely watch any games with a PL. They are just not interesting. | ||
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