EPT**read your edit** Is lvl1 curse really that bad against a lvl1 es plus partner or something?
General Discussion - Page 1811
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
**read your edit** Is lvl1 curse really that bad against a lvl1 es plus partner or something? | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On January 07 2013 20:53 TheYango wrote: All of them are true except this one. Have you played the hero? Barring situations where you're forced to teamfight without ultimate (which pubs are awful at exploiting), his teamfighting ability is extremely good. He can teamfight, but it's nothing flashy... Ho does no damage in teamfights until he gets his 3rd item. And global silence is on the weak side when it comes to long cd teamfight ultimates. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On January 07 2013 20:54 KlaCkoN wrote: Hm thanks. I guess I thought 600 range + continously forcing lvl1 or 2 supports to waste their mana on suboptimal use of their skills or lose it anyway would make up for it. Though I guess if they are disciplined enough they simply wont be in cast range until they want to cast. **read your edit** Is lvl1 curse really that bad against a lvl1 es plus partner or something? yes. if you cant get levels curse is garbage level 1 curse if they dont do anything at all its 120 damage and 48 mana, both of which are completely recoverable level 2 curse is actually where they have to think about using spells. the problem here is that in the timespan of level 1-3 something will likely have happened against your trilane since trilanes are constructed to DO something with a level 1 spell, but even at level 3 the problem still lies in that silencer cant cover for the other people in the trilane except attack from 600 range or just drain mana, and this almost makes pretty much defensive from the start. so the only place for a silencer trilane is in the safe lane. not many heroes can work in a trilane that dont even have a slow spell. the one exception is undying and i think everybody should know why he works | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
And what are you comparing Global Silence to where it's a weaker teamfight ultimate? Are you ignoring the fact that it unconditionally hits all 5 opposing heroes regardless of positioning or magic immunity--and assuming that all Ravages, RPs, and Black Holes are always going to be 5-man? | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On January 07 2013 21:03 rabidch wrote: yes. if you cant get levels curse is garbage level 1 curse if they dont do anything at all its 120 damage and 48 mana, both of which are completely recoverable level 2 curse is actually where they have to think about using spells. the problem here is that in the timespan of level 1-3 something will likely have happened against your trilane since trilanes are constructed to DO something with a level 1 spell, but even at level 3 the problem still lies in that silencer cant cover for the other people in the trilane except attack from 600 range or just drain mana, and this almost makes pretty much defensive from the start. so the only place for a silencer trilane is in the safe lane. not many heroes can work in a trilane that dont even have a slow spell. the one exception is undying and i think everybody should know why he works i want to add the one time a silencer trilane DOES work is if they get first blood or get kills very fast due to various mistakes the other team makes then silencer can pwn his lane and the supports can dual roam or something. but them making mistakes is probably not because of silencer. | ||
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nojok
France15846 Posts
On January 07 2013 20:53 Laurens wrote: How do performance bars work? I thought it was purely win-loss, but maybe not? I am 8-1 with Nyx and that's below average. Certainly this is possible but the thing is that I am LOSING performance with every win. I.E. when I was 5-1 with Nyx it was my best character and close to 4, since then every win has decreased the bar.. I play it pure support so I don't get many levels or much gold, does that influence performance? Or is this just a bug? This bar is randomised I think. Or it says it is compared to other players of same level of competence. I don't know, my top bar is 2 3 huskar, my 5 0 batrider is below average. I have some heroes with different bar but same winrate. | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
On January 07 2013 21:03 rabidch wrote: yes. if you cant get levels curse is garbage level 1 curse if they dont do anything at all its 120 damage and 48 mana, both of which are completely recoverable level 2 curse is actually where they have to think about using spells. the problem here is that in the timespan of level 1-3 something will likely have happened against your trilane since trilanes are constructed to DO something with a level 1 spell, but even at level 3 the problem still lies in that silencer cant cover for the other people in the trilane except attack from 600 range or just drain mana, and this almost makes pretty much defensive from the start. so the only place for a silencer trilane is in the safe lane. not many heroes can work in a trilane that dont even have a slow spell. the one exception is undying and i think everybody should know why he works Yep thanks, and a defensive trilane for a semi carry seems fairly counter productive from the get go :p. I know I have seen razor used in aggressive tri´s though, the difference here is that you cant really target him with spells or was it always a bad idea for the reasons you gave and thats why it's not seen often? | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On January 07 2013 21:14 KlaCkoN wrote: Yep thanks, and a defensive trilane for a semi carry seems fairly counter productive from the get go :p. I know I have seen razor used in aggressive tri´s though, the difference here is that you cant really target him with spells or was it always a bad idea for the reasons you gave and thats why it's not seen often? Razor has a good aoe nuke that can kill in the trilane. Silencer just forces the enemy to buy more regen. Or kill them if they don't and are bad, but if the enemies are that bad, anything will work... | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On January 07 2013 21:14 KlaCkoN wrote: Yep thanks, and a defensive trilane for a semi carry seems fairly counter productive from the get go :p. I know I have seen razor used in aggressive tri´s though, the difference here is that you cant really target him with spells or was it always a bad idea for the reasons you gave and thats why it's not seen often? razor *can* be a decent trilane hero but can be a very ineffective hero mid game... mostly because of his garbage carry abilities and team fight abilities that rely greatly on teammates to work. if a team doesnt get owned by late game, razor has no disables, no utility, mediocre splitpush, and gets outcarried by the vast majority of the pool because of his ASS stat gain and scaling, assuming everything else is even. hes quite different from silencer also some teams will actually put a semicarry in a trilane, but with stronger spells for killing like panda or wr. ive seen magnus who can be relatively ineffective at level 1, but magnus doesnt roll over as easily as silencer does | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On January 07 2013 21:01 cecek wrote: He can teamfight, but it's nothing flashy... Ho does no damage in teamfights until he gets his 3rd item. And global silence is on the weak side when it comes to long cd teamfight ultimates. you have no idea how to play silencer do you ? His last word, combined with his ult is a 11second silence and a 5second disarm. That with the 6second global silence. How does he need to do damage when you can effectively kill 2heroes in that timespan ? And if global silence is on the weak side when it comes to long cd teamfight, that means you fight quite often. And if you fight quite often, Silencer will always steal 2 or more int. | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On January 07 2013 21:41 Erasme wrote: you have no idea how to play silencer do you ? His last word, combined with his ult is a 11second silence and a 5second disarm. That with the 6second global silence. How does he need to do damage when you can effectively kill 2heroes in that timespan ? And if global silence is on the weak side when it comes to long cd teamfight, that means you fight quite often. And if you fight quite often, Silencer will always steal 2 or more int. At level 16 you can silence one guy for some time and do mediocre nuke damage to him, every 140 seconds. By the time you get there, any other carry is either outfarming you by 4k gold, or you're losing towers left and right, or if you're playing him as a semi carry the enemy counterpart is ganking the shit out of your team, or doing anything more useful than waiting for a 140 cooldown to even do anything. That's like saying "you have no idea how to play spectre, her ultimate does so much damage with diffusal and radiance" Stop looking at the game in a vacuum, please. edit: also, who do you use the combo on? A carry that cares about that will just bkb/manta out of that and using it on a support feels like a waste. Oh, and saying that when you're fighting often doesn't mean you're winning the fight. Especially with a hero that has zero disables. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
Just wondering. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
On January 07 2013 22:17 Unleashing wrote: Has any of the teams that utilize bane, such as empire, tried level 1 rosh with bane? Enfeeble has been buffed and would remove a lot of rosh's damage. Just wondering. dont think it works on rosh | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
Edit: Yup, not meant to work on ancients, so nevermind.  | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On January 07 2013 22:08 Erasme wrote: A simple yes would have suffice, 9second silence and 5second disarm at lvl7, the 'mediocre nuke' damage at level 7 is enough to blow half hp of a support and probably the same amount of the carry that is farming his first item. Obviously you're gonna adapt your team to Silencer but saying that his damage are pitiful is ignorant at best. So what's your gameplan as a silencer? Put him solo mid and go gank with last word? | ||
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Baggage
Hong Kong593 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On January 07 2013 22:38 cecek wrote: So what's your gameplan as a silencer? Put him solo mid and go gank with last word? You don't send your lone druid mid and expect him to gank either. Stop thinking of silencer as generic hero that does everything exactly like every other hero and start playing him like silencer. You build your team around silencer with his shortcomings in mind. You want a tempo controlling hero like panda in your safelane or jungle bat so that you can force teamfights. This assuming you're running silencer mid due to an ideal matchup. Naturally you could just lane panda mid and safelane your silencer if the matchups played out favorably. Being flexible is just another advantage. | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On January 07 2013 22:50 Baggage wrote: People aren't necessarily disagreeing with you that Silencer has various laning issues in a competitive setting. The point you are underestimating/missing is that Silencer now has pretty good damage output with just core items. If you had bothered to watched the 2009 video that was linked, 09 demonstrates that the combination of -int steals and cost-efficient core items are more than enough for Silencer to function effectively in midgame teamfights. I think he's very strong in lanes. Just that after that he doesn't do much. A ganker with no disable is not a good ganker, a carry with no good farming skill or extremely good lategame steroid is not a good carry, etc. And the only thing I said about his lack of damage, is his lack of damage in teamfights, (300 damage single target nuke on a 12s cooldown is shit damage in teamfights, where you need mostly aoe) which is why he's not amazing even in teamfights in the early-midgame, until he gets his farm up, but when he gets his farm up, he gets outfarmed by other carries. And I'm done with silencer here. | ||
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