On January 07 2013 18:17 739 wrote: Isn't Silencer supposed to be superior against tri lanes ?
that used to be the case many a day ago but times have changed then, so silencer really sucks against trilanes
the main use of curse of the silent is spamming it in those standoffs like battle hunger
personally i think its his most useless spell since the only thing it synergizes with in teamfights is his 140 cd ultimate and it scales absolutely terribly
The discussion on Curse specifically is going off on a tangent seeing as the original discussion was related to cecek's assertion that Silencer doesn't have enough damage-dealing ability.
On January 07 2013 18:40 TheYango wrote: The discussion on Curse specifically is going off on a tangent seeing as the original discussion was related to cecek's assertion that Silencer doesn't have enough damage-dealing ability.
cecek is kind of correct but he has the wrong mindset really
he just cant farm as fast as many other carries and has one aoe ability which simply does nothing past midgame, carries these days must have ability to farm at a decent pace, simply because of the carry curve. silencer cant do this and doesnt have any huge aoe spell so this affects his actual dps, so hes far from whats considered an excellent carry. instead he has to rely on his strong laning to get farm, which becomes shaky during midgame outside of his ultimate, because he has no natural escape ability and a spell thats a weak single target psuedo disable, which is why people get mek and force staff on him.
once he actually gets farmed he can do quite a bit of damage with his attack, well except for the fact that theres no aoe on it
well now that i think about it, silencer is a pretty bad carry
On January 07 2013 18:40 TheYango wrote: The discussion on Curse specifically is going off on a tangent seeing as the original discussion was related to cecek's assertion that Silencer doesn't have enough damage-dealing ability.
cecek is kind of correct but he has the wrong mindset really
he just cant farm as fast as many other carries and has one aoe ability which simply does nothing past midgame, carries these days must have ability to farm at a decent pace, simply because of the carry curve. silencer cant do this and doesnt have any huge aoe spell so this affects his actual dps, so hes far from whats considered an excellent carry. instead he has to rely on his strong laning to get farm, which becomes shaky during midgame outside of his ultimate, because he has no natural escape ability and a spell thats a weak single target psuedo disable, which is why people get mek and force staff on him.
once he actually gets farmed he can do quite a bit of damage with his attack, well except for the fact that theres no aoe on it
well now that i think about it, silencer is a pretty bad carry
On January 07 2013 18:40 TheYango wrote: The discussion on Curse specifically is going off on a tangent seeing as the original discussion was related to cecek's assertion that Silencer doesn't have enough damage-dealing ability.
cecek is kind of correct but he has the wrong mindset really
he just cant farm as fast as many other carries and has one aoe ability which simply does nothing past midgame, carries these days must have ability to farm at a decent pace, simply because of the carry curve. silencer cant do this and doesnt have any huge aoe spell so this affects his actual dps, so hes far from whats considered an excellent carry. instead he has to rely on his strong laning to get farm, which becomes shaky during midgame outside of his ultimate, because he has no natural escape ability and a spell thats a weak single target psuedo disable, which is why people get mek and force staff on him.
once he actually gets farmed he can do quite a bit of damage with his attack, well except for the fact that theres no aoe on it
well now that i think about it, silencer is a pretty bad carry
I never disagreed on that point.
I think his midgame teamfight presence is quite high. He doesn't need to get super-farmed to do damage. Treads+Mek Silencer compared to a Tranquil+Janggo+Aquila Luna--midgame teamfight power is not where Silencer is lacking.
He can't push or counterpush and he farms slowly, but in the environment of a pub game where two teams can just teamfight themselves to death, he can perform extremely well. His usefulness in competitive play is more limited but I made note of that as well.
On January 07 2013 18:40 TheYango wrote: The discussion on Curse specifically is going off on a tangent seeing as the original discussion was related to cecek's assertion that Silencer doesn't have enough damage-dealing ability.
cecek is kind of correct but he has the wrong mindset really
he just cant farm as fast as many other carries and has one aoe ability which simply does nothing past midgame, carries these days must have ability to farm at a decent pace, simply because of the carry curve. silencer cant do this and doesnt have any huge aoe spell so this affects his actual dps, so hes far from whats considered an excellent carry. instead he has to rely on his strong laning to get farm, which becomes shaky during midgame outside of his ultimate, because he has no natural escape ability and a spell thats a weak single target psuedo disable, which is why people get mek and force staff on him.
once he actually gets farmed he can do quite a bit of damage with his attack, well except for the fact that theres no aoe on it
well now that i think about it, silencer is a pretty bad carry
I never disagreed on that point.
I think his midgame teamfight presence is quite high. He doesn't need to get super-farmed to do damage. Treads+Mek Silencer compared to a Tranquil+Janggo+Aquila Luna--midgame teamfight power is not where Silencer is lacking.
He can't push or counterpush and he farms slowly, but in the environment of a pub game where two teams can just teamfight themselves to death, he can perform extremely well. His usefulness in competitive play is more limited but I made note of that as well.
midgame teamfights are also less important in pubs though. if you want to talk about pubs, his main usefulness is crushing the person you're laning against
Well the core 'problem' of silencer is his farming ability so many people see him as a 'bad carry'. But the thing is he doesnt need those 'afk farming' like other hardcarries, all he needs to do is keep stealing int by showing up in team fights.
I almost never see anyone plays silencer as a carry in pub but because i am coming from the zeus/silencer dominant era, i always knew silencer is one of the strongest carries. Which reminds me of Erasme, how the hell he knew that silencer is a carry is beyond me (considering he is relatively new to dota ).
and watch this new vod from 09 if you want to see some fierce Nortrom in action.
Silencer is like the signature hero of 09 from well...2009 xD
I'm using an ati 9250 ( or something like that ) and I can barely run WC3 ahaha. Anyways, I'm gonna order a new card later in the day and it should arrive tomorrow morning so it's ok =))) .
On January 07 2013 19:57 BurningSera wrote: Well the core 'problem' of silencer is his farming ability so many people see him as a 'bad carry'. But the thing is he doesnt need those 'afk farming' like other hardcarries, all he needs to do is keep stealing int by showing up in team fights.
I almost never see anyone plays silencer as a carry in pub but because i am coming from the zeus/silencer dominant era, i always knew silencer is one of the strongest carries. Which reminds me of Erasme, how the hell he knew that silencer is a carry is beyond me (considering he is relatively new to dota ).
and watch this new vod from 09 if you want to see some fierce Nortrom in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBLq9-M8xZI Silencer is like the signature hero of 09 from well...2009 xD
On January 07 2013 19:57 BurningSera wrote: Well the core 'problem' of silencer is his farming ability so many people see him as a 'bad carry'. But the thing is he doesnt need those 'afk farming' like other hardcarries, all he needs to do is keep stealing int by showing up in team fights.
I almost never see anyone plays silencer as a carry in pub but because i am coming from the zeus/silencer dominant era, i always knew silencer is one of the strongest carries. Which reminds me of Erasme, how the hell he knew that silencer is a carry is beyond me (considering he is relatively new to dota ).
and watch this new vod from 09 if you want to see some fierce Nortrom in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBLq9-M8xZI Silencer is like the signature hero of 09 from well...2009 xD
I saw one game in the defense maybe (first one) where waga picks silencer to counter am. Worked pretty well. And thats why I always get midas after treads/bottle on Silencer.
On January 07 2013 19:57 BurningSera wrote: Well the core 'problem' of silencer is his farming ability so many people see him as a 'bad carry'. But the thing is he doesnt need those 'afk farming' like other hardcarries, all he needs to do is keep stealing int by showing up in team fights.
I almost never see anyone plays silencer as a carry in pub but because i am coming from the zeus/silencer dominant era, i always knew silencer is one of the strongest carries. Which reminds me of Erasme, how the hell he knew that silencer is a carry is beyond me (considering he is relatively new to dota ).
and watch this new vod from 09 if you want to see some fierce Nortrom in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBLq9-M8xZI Silencer is like the signature hero of 09 from well...2009 xD
silencer is a semicarry :/
and most good players play silencer as such
Yes, he will win a solo lane, get good farm early on. Enter midgame, where he can't really gank, can't push, can't farm fast, and can't teamfight very effectively.
And saying you can rely on the int steal to make up for farm is just so naive it's cute. That never ever works in a real game.
On January 07 2013 19:57 BurningSera wrote: Well the core 'problem' of silencer is his farming ability so many people see him as a 'bad carry'. But the thing is he doesnt need those 'afk farming' like other hardcarries, all he needs to do is keep stealing int by showing up in team fights.
I almost never see anyone plays silencer as a carry in pub but because i am coming from the zeus/silencer dominant era, i always knew silencer is one of the strongest carries. Which reminds me of Erasme, how the hell he knew that silencer is a carry is beyond me (considering he is relatively new to dota ).
and watch this new vod from 09 if you want to see some fierce Nortrom in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBLq9-M8xZI Silencer is like the signature hero of 09 from well...2009 xD
silencer is a semicarry :/
and most good players play silencer as such
Yes, he will win a solo lane, get good farm early on. Enter midgame, where he can't really gank, can't push, can't farm fast, and can't teamfight very effectively.
And saying you can rely on the int steal to make up for farm is just so naive it's cute. That never ever works in a real game.
well i havent played him too much with the new spell but silencer is one of those heroes that really lives and dies by his ultimate, even more so than panda, if hes forced to use it in bad times well you better hope they cant punish you. maybe he can show up in a 2 or 3 core lineup but its hard to say right now because i think the game will get more aggressive on midlane in the short term, if offlane keeps looking bad on many lineups
On January 07 2013 18:17 739 wrote: Isn't Silencer supposed to be superior against tri lanes ?
that used to be the case many a day ago but times have changed then, so silencer really sucks against trilanes
the main use of curse of the silent is spamming it in those standoffs like battle hunger
personally i think its his most useless spell since the only thing it synergizes with in teamfights is his 140 cd ultimate and it scales absolutely terribly
Mind explaining what about him makes him terrible vs 3? From my newbie perspective it seems like he would fill the same role as razor in a 3v3 lane scenario only much much better. Good laning spells, fast buildup into effective midgame teamfights, should provide lots of space for primary farmer. Why doesnt this work?
On January 07 2013 18:17 739 wrote: Isn't Silencer supposed to be superior against tri lanes ?
that used to be the case many a day ago but times have changed then, so silencer really sucks against trilanes
the main use of curse of the silent is spamming it in those standoffs like battle hunger
personally i think its his most useless spell since the only thing it synergizes with in teamfights is his 140 cd ultimate and it scales absolutely terribly
Mind explaining what about him makes him terrible vs 3? From my newbie perspective it seems like he would fill the same role as razor in a 3v3 lane scenario only much much better. Good laning spells, fast buildup into effective midgame teamfights, should provide lots of space for primary farmer. Why doesnt this work?
no escape mechanism, and a delayed psuedo disable which may not matter
if you put him long lane, 1 initiation spell and he is dead vs 3
safe lane is uncommon these days but these lanes are usually built to tower dive and silencer doesnt really have any other side effects to help the tower defend him
i read your post slightly wrong thinking its 1v3 which was what he used to be used for
silencer's level 1 spells are really garbage. thats why hes awkward in trilanes
How do performance bars work? I thought it was purely win-loss, but maybe not?
I am 8-1 with Nyx and that's below average. Certainly this is possible but the thing is that I am LOSING performance with every win. I.E. when I was 5-1 with Nyx it was my best character and close to 4, since then every win has decreased the bar..
I play it pure support so I don't get many levels or much gold, does that influence performance? Or is this just a bug?
On January 07 2013 20:28 cecek wrote: Yes, he will win a solo lane, get good farm early on. Enter midgame, where he can't really gank, can't push, can't farm fast, and can't teamfight very effectively.
All of them are true except this one. Have you played the hero? Barring situations where you're forced to teamfight without ultimate (which pubs are awful at exploiting), his teamfighting ability is extremely good.
EPT
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