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Testuser
6469 Posts
On January 05 2013 06:40 konadora wrote: i go PMS first on am/void/spectre but usually follow up with a qb real fast i should stop this bad habit lol @_@ because i can last hit fine with heroes like invoker and rubick rubick lasthit feels so nice and clean. i love him. rubick, please never leave me. | ||
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Asha
United Kingdom38257 Posts
http://neodota.com/?p=1474 | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 05 2013 06:40 konadora wrote: i go PMS first on am/void/spectre but usually follow up with a qb real fast i should stop this bad habit lol @_@ because i can last hit fine with heroes like invoker and rubick Straight-rushing PMS is also kind of a bad habit, TBH, though it's also a lot more understandable. A lot of the time it's not actually worth using the 300 gold to upgrade to PMS over just having Stout. There are actually some fine differences between whether you get PMS, RoH, Stick, or Boots as your first buy as one of those carries that are worth learning. Unfortunately, I can't say I'm very good at discerning them, only recognizing that they exist, lol. | ||
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Testuser
6469 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
I'm still not 100% sure about the full build on this guy, I usually think boots, heart, diffusal, radiance, butterfly, manta, with the eventual substitution of radiance for crit. I guess he has some flexibility (like AM) in how he can be built though. Often, when running aggresive builds / team comps (usually agressive trilane with kotl + stunner (nyx if available)) I really like to grab the vit booster and diffusal, and just get crazy aggressive. Edit: I'm starting to like PMS a lot - though it boils down to just a calculation of how many autoattacks / creep hits I plan on tanking. 90% of the time i'll grab a stout shield anyways, it just kind of depends on the lane / what my supports are doing. Somtimes, If I know I'll end up buying one, i'll grab stout + slipper just so I can get it very quickly and pick up a RoH around the same time. Though it kind of hurts stats wise, I'm starting to like the build more and more. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 05 2013 06:48 Testuser wrote: I'll ge honest, I don't think starting with QB is that bad. YES, if you lane is a freefarm lane then it's pretty damn stupid, but if it's a normal pub with dual lanes, then it's well worth the security in being able to get the lasthits a smidge earlier + being able to cut down trees can be pretty useful. The thing is in a non-freefarm lane, a melee hero that started QB gets outtraded, outharassed, and generally crushed by a melee hero that started Stout Shield, barring some significant matchup advantage (in which case, if you could still win with QB, you'd win HARDER by having Stout and being able to play more aggressive). If I have Stout and you have QB, I'm not going to try and fight you for lasthits. I'm just going to bully you directly because you can't retaliate without losing the trade insanely hard from creep aggro, whereas Stout negates the majority of the creep damage I take. If you started Stout+QB+Tangoes, the same concept applies, except that I have more stats and more regen, so I force trades to try and trade regen with you so that you have to wait for more when you run out. 225 gold in a 0-stats, 0-regen item when everyone only has 603 gold matters a lot. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On January 05 2013 06:53 TheYango wrote: The thing is in a non-freefarm lane, a melee hero that started QB gets outtraded, outharassed, and generally crushed by a melee hero that started Stout Shield, barring some significant matchup advantage. If I have Stout and you have QB, I'm not going to try and fight you for lasthits. I'm just going to bully you directly because you can't retaliate without losing the trade insanely hard from creep aggro, whereas Stout negates the majority of the creep damage I take. Rule of thumb - if you plan on being harassed a lot / aggresive trilane, get a stout. Freefarm, get a QB. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 05 2013 06:54 Comeh wrote: Rule of thumb - if you plan on being harassed a lot / aggresive trilane, get a stout. Freefarm, get a QB. If you're in a freefarm lane, the QB still isn't helpful because you should be able to lasthit without it, and if you're freefarming, your two outside worries will be ganks and kill opportunities against their off-laner, toward neither of which QB contributes. Stout is still better in that scenario because it lets you tank creeps to freeze the lane. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On January 05 2013 06:58 TheYango wrote: If you're in a freefarm lane, the QB still isn't helpful because you should be able to lasthit without it, and if you're freefarming, your two outside worries will be ganks and kill opportunities against their off-laner, toward neither of which QB contributes. Stout is still better in that scenario because it lets you tank creeps to freeze the lane. Well, I suppose its more of a "if you struggle at last hitting under tower". I'm stubborn and will never buy a QB (and miss last hits under tower :[ ) except for after buying a BF on AM. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
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Dubzex
United States6994 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On January 05 2013 07:01 TheYango wrote: If you struggle at lasthitting under tower, use Stout to tank the creep wave outside of tower range--and then don't lasthit under tower! NOPE ONE OF THESE DAYS I WILL BE BLACK | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On January 05 2013 07:00 Comeh wrote: Well, I suppose its more of a "if you struggle at last hitting under tower". I'm stubborn and will never buy a QB (and miss last hits under tower :[ ) except for after buying a BF on AM. Just go into a custom game and do it a few times. It's actually really easy after you figure out the numbers on when you'll one hit and when you'll two hit. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On January 05 2013 07:05 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Just go into a custom game and do it a few times. It's actually really easy after you figure out the numbers on when you'll one hit and when you'll two hit. Yeah, i've done this before (though the different attack damages of heroes throws me off a wee bit). The problem is I'll end up taking a 3-4 day break from dota, not practice again, and then lose the feel for it. This is semi-problematic considering I'm the carry for the group of people I tend to play cm games with.. | ||
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ArcticRaven
France1406 Posts
On January 05 2013 05:44 Nevuk wrote: All of the heroes you've mentioned have been seen in serious matches at one point or another, many being first pick/first ban status at one point (visage, weaver, omni) . Treant is being constantly reworked, most people think icefrog is just desperate to get him to competitive status. The only fun pub experiment hero is slark. If meepo's earthbind still went through bkb he would probably be picked. Why and how is Slark only a fun pub experiment ? I love playing that guy D: | ||
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LazyFailKid
Canada750 Posts
On January 05 2013 07:15 ArcticRaven wrote: Why and how is Slark only a fun pub experiment ? I love playing that guy D: Against a good team they'll have sentries by when you get your ult and you're really squishy (not helped by dark pact hurting you too) and don't scale as good as other carries with farm. Although maybe support slark would work? Pretty much mini vengeful spirit with better damage during ganks. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On January 05 2013 07:19 LazyFailKid wrote: Against a good team they'll have sentries by when you get your ult and you're really squishy (not helped by dark pact hurting you too) and don't scale as good as other carries with farm. Yeah, he's essentially just a very awkward hero that is difficult to lane well and doesn't scale as well as heroes that are equally difficult to lane. Snowballs HARD in pubs though. | ||
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