EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 1797
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
On January 05 2013 07:05 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Just go into a custom game and do it a few times. It's actually really easy after you figure out the numbers on when you'll one hit and when you'll two hit. but the tower hits vary from like 90-120 I think so you can never rly be 100% on the mark if you dont have high enough dmg | ||
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Skullflower
United States3779 Posts
Hit the creep once --> 5 tower hits --> hit it again. Ranged: Hit the creep once --> 2 tower hits --> hit it again. Siege: 3 tower hits --> hit it. If you have high enough base damage like say CK you don't need to hit it beforehand though. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Skullflower
United States3779 Posts
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Testuser
6469 Posts
On January 05 2013 06:53 TheYango wrote: The thing is in a non-freefarm lane, a melee hero that started QB gets outtraded, outharassed, and generally crushed by a melee hero that started Stout Shield, barring some significant matchup advantage (in which case, if you could still win with QB, you'd win HARDER by having Stout and being able to play more aggressive). If I have Stout and you have QB, I'm not going to try and fight you for lasthits. I'm just going to bully you directly because you can't retaliate without losing the trade insanely hard from creep aggro, whereas Stout negates the majority of the creep damage I take. If you started Stout+QB+Tangoes, the same concept applies, except that I have more stats and more regen, so I force trades to try and trade regen with you so that you have to wait for more when you run out. 225 gold in a 0-stats, 0-regen item when everyone only has 603 gold matters a lot. oh I'm sorry, I think I confused you. If I get a QB I'll always get a stout shield as well. otherwise the item is completely useless. and of course it depends on the match-up: if you're vs an agressive or high damage ranged support I'll most likely skip qb and get some extra regen + a branch or two. but if I believe my support can stand up decently to his, I'll go qb and try to score an extra deny or two in the early game. tbh that's more what it's about for me - denying gold and exp from your opponents. and if I have qb + stout + tango/salve and you go agressive harassing me, then I'll just let you - get the extra ck + denies and maybe ferry a salve or smth (of course after mid gets bottle or whatever). I completely get your point, but I think it more-so differs from style to style than one choice simply being better. if not, then I'm wrong and you're right  | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
On January 05 2013 07:21 Comeh wrote: Yeah, he's essentially just a very awkward hero that is difficult to lane well and doesn't scale as well as heroes that are equally difficult to lane. Snowballs HARD in pubs though. Can't snowball harder than Huskar though. Best one ever | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On January 05 2013 07:12 Comeh wrote: Yeah, i've done this before (though the different attack damages of heroes throws me off a wee bit). The problem is I'll end up taking a 3-4 day break from dota, not practice again, and then lose the feel for it. This is semi-problematic considering I'm the carry for the group of people I tend to play cm games with.. How good are you at math? If you can't maintain muscle memory then you can just look at how much health a creep has and know how many hits it will take to kill. The tower does 100-120 damage. That means you need about 80 damage to one hit the ranged creep. When you're close to this it becomes more luck based since damage ranges make it impossible to last hit properly. Until you reach that point though you will need to hit each ranged creep twice. The melee creeps are harder because they have two armor. 550 health would mean they die in five hits, but since they have two armor they have an effective hitpoints of 616. Always think in terms of effective hitpoints if you can. It makes the math much simpler when you aren't reducing everything by armor. This means 66 damage is the magical number here, but again when you're closing in on this value it can become impossible to predict. The creeps also gain stats at 7:30 so you might need to adjust a bit there. They only gain ten hitpoints, but it can be the difference between last hitting and missing it if you're not paying attention. Keep in mind that will give the melee creep 11 extra effective hitpoints due to it's two armor. | ||
blahz0r
3030 Posts
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Daozzt
United States1263 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10940 Posts
On January 05 2013 07:43 Testuser wrote: oh I'm sorry, I think I confused you. If I get a QB I'll always get a stout shield as well. otherwise the item is completely useless. and of course it depends on the match-up: if you're vs an agressive or high damage ranged support I'll most likely skip qb and get some extra regen + a branch or two. but if I believe my support can stand up decently to his, I'll go qb and try to score an extra deny or two in the early game. tbh that's more what it's about for me - denying gold and exp from your opponents. and if I have qb + stout + tango/salve and you go agressive harassing me, then I'll just let you - get the extra ck + denies and maybe ferry a salve or smth (of course after mid gets bottle or whatever). I completely get your point, but I think it more-so differs from style to style than one choice simply being better. if not, then I'm wrong and you're right What good does you a QB when all the "extra" last hits are spent on salves and extra regen? In my experience Stout/QB only works "well" when you wouldn't need the stout anyway (and therefore also wouldn't need the QB because you got freefarm, else you just lack the regen :p)... | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On January 05 2013 07:56 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: How good are you at math? If you can't maintain muscle memory then you can just look at how much health a creep has and know how many hits it will take to kill. The tower does 100-120 damage. That means you need about 80 damage to one hit the ranged creep. When you're close to this it becomes more luck based since damage ranges make it impossible to last hit properly. Until you reach that point though you will need to hit each ranged creep twice. The melee creeps are harder because they have two armor. 550 health would mean they die in five hits, but since they have two armor they have an effective hitpoints of 616. Always think in terms of effective hitpoints if you can. It makes the math much simpler when you aren't reducing everything by armor. This means 66 damage is the magical number here, but again when you're closing in on this value it can become impossible to predict. The creeps also gain stats at 7:30 so you might need to adjust a bit there. They only gain ten hitpoints, but it can be the difference between last hitting and missing it if you're not paying attention. Keep in mind that will give the melee creep 11 extra effective hitpoints due to it's two armor. Hm, this is an interesting technique and will obviously be more reliable than the psuedo-guessing that usually occurs. I've heard of doing it like this, but my on-the-fly math isn't too well versed. I would consider practicing it if I ever do end up starting a team (...yeah we'll see about that). The only really problem I can see with this is that it takes a decent amount of concentration / focus, and lowers your ability to be map-aware / keep your screen on various areas of the map. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On January 05 2013 08:09 Comeh wrote: Hm, this is an interesting technique and will obviously be more reliable than the psuedo-guessing that usually occurs. I've heard of doing it like this, but my on-the-fly math isn't too well versed. I would consider practicing it if I ever do end up starting a team (...yeah we'll see about that). The only really problem I can see with this is that it takes a decent amount of concentration / focus, and lowers your ability to be map-aware / keep your screen on various areas of the map. Really you only need to pay attention to the breakpoints. When you hit 66 damage. When you hit 80 damage. When the game time is at 7:30 and think about how you need to adjust. I'm not suggesting you calculate the number of hits every single creep or anything. The speed math is required for the siege creep. Although it is more luck based than math based. You can still maximize your odds though | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
On January 05 2013 07:59 Daozzt wrote: Quelling blade should only be bought to clear lanes/jungle quickly when you have a bfury or something, or if you have random starting gold. or when there's a furion around that ganks too much early-mid game | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
Just received 6 beta invite keys. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
On January 05 2013 08:50 trinxified wrote: Ummm so Valve is extra generous or just really want to push this game out like crazy. Just received 6 beta invite keys. i literally just got some 2 minutes ago, i think i have like 15 unused ones now lmfao | ||
TheEmulator
28102 Posts
On January 05 2013 08:55 FinestHour wrote: i literally just got some 2 minutes ago, i think i have like 15 unused ones now lmfao I got 6 invites today as well. | ||
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LazyFailKid
Canada750 Posts
Seems like everyone got 6~ keys today | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
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