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General Discussion - Page 1795

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-04 21:08:22
January 04 2013 21:07 GMT
#35881
what yango said is still true though. radiance is super inefficient.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Dead9
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States4725 Posts
January 04 2013 21:10 GMT
#35882
radiance owns u farm so fast
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-04 21:11:56
January 04 2013 21:10 GMT
#35883
On January 05 2013 06:06 konadora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 06:01 TheYango wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:56 konadora wrote:
holy shit, i didn't think that the new agi gain on PL will be this good.

PL is the ultimate pub destroyer, rushing tranquil + ring of basilius into diffusal, radiance then manta/heart/bfly whatever. farms so fast, pushes so fast. <3 i think i found my third favourite hero (after rubick and invoker)

If you're not getting Radiance first as a farming item, it's not really compelling to get Radiance at all.

my starting items are 2x ring of protection and a quelling blade, i usually farm a tranquil boots fast enough to not warrant a regen item unless i feel they're gonna offlane a ranged, then i just get qb later. farms pretty damn well with qb + diffusal as mentioned above

You sort of missed what I'm saying. Radiance isn't compelling as a teamfight item alone. You have to be using it's all-out farm ability for it to be worth getting at all. So either you rush Radiance, or you just don't bother buying it. Diffusal->Radiance is a nonsensical build that doesn't farm fast because you delayed Radiance, and then doesn't teamfight well either because you spend forever saving for a Relic rather than buying Manta parts.

And don't get me started on that item start, lol.
Moderator
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66364 Posts
January 04 2013 21:12 GMT
#35884
On January 05 2013 06:10 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 06:06 konadora wrote:
On January 05 2013 06:01 TheYango wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:56 konadora wrote:
holy shit, i didn't think that the new agi gain on PL will be this good.

PL is the ultimate pub destroyer, rushing tranquil + ring of basilius into diffusal, radiance then manta/heart/bfly whatever. farms so fast, pushes so fast. <3 i think i found my third favourite hero (after rubick and invoker)

If you're not getting Radiance first as a farming item, it's not really compelling to get Radiance at all.

my starting items are 2x ring of protection and a quelling blade, i usually farm a tranquil boots fast enough to not warrant a regen item unless i feel they're gonna offlane a ranged, then i just get qb later. farms pretty damn well with qb + diffusal as mentioned above

You sort of missed what I'm saying. Radiance isn't compelling as a teamfight item alone. You have to be using it's all-out farm ability for it to be worth getting at all. So either you rush Radiance, or you just don't bother buying it. Diffusal->Radiance is a nonsensical build that doesn't farm fast because you delayed Radiance, and then doesn't teamfight well either because you spend forever saving for a Relic rather than buying Manta parts.

hmm the point of me getting diffusal into radiance is to participate in fights earlier (the feedback is really useful, especially when i max spirit lance and juxtapose first), and then the radiance (which i manage to farm in like 4-5 mins due to all the creep kills + tower pushes) helps to multilane/camp push/farm. gpm goes up exponentially. usually i have my tranquil boots, soul ring (or ring of basilius), qb, radiance and diffusal by 23-25min ish
POGGERS
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-04 21:19:44
January 04 2013 21:16 GMT
#35885
you can do all that stuff with just diff+qb without radiance (edit- having a point or two in your ult is key). the agility and mana burn combined with the quelling blade will allow you to clear camps and farm lanes. Manta is definitely the way to go after that because radiance provides minimal teamfighting power because +damage doesnt apply to illusions, and is super expensive.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
January 04 2013 21:18 GMT
#35886
So you participate in a fight or two. Then your teamfight participation still falls off because you're banking 3k-odd gold, then your Relic doesnt add illusion stats, then you're farming because you have Radiance.

It doesn't actually change the fact that you tunnel back into the jungle to farm. It just delays it, while also making your farm growth less explosive because you pushed back Radiance so long.
Moderator
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66364 Posts
January 04 2013 21:18 GMT
#35887
hmm alright, i'll try without radiance next time and see how it goes. qb + db + manta + heart + bfly
POGGERS
5-s
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1674 Posts
January 04 2013 21:22 GMT
#35888
Radiance first is definitely way better. If ur not down 5+ towers or 10+ kills by the time you get it, it's hard to lose.
I liked Dota before it was Mainstream.
Unleashing
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark14978 Posts
January 04 2013 21:25 GMT
#35889
I'm sad you can't curve hooks anymore That was awesome.
From the Ghastly Eyrie I can see to the ends of the world, and from this vantage point I declare with utter certainty that this one is in the bag!
blahz0r
Profile Joined December 2010
3030 Posts
January 04 2013 21:27 GMT
#35890
Shouldn't need the qb either unless you're really bad at last hitting
Liquipedia
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-04 21:33:30
January 04 2013 21:29 GMT
#35891
^when your just a-moving illusions through camps it helps clear them faster, and i find reduces the chances of you losing all your illusions from creep damage because they fall faster. I also have trouble getting last hits with illusions on lanes, I like having it for that too.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Unleashing
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark14978 Posts
January 04 2013 21:30 GMT
#35892
On January 05 2013 06:27 blahz0r wrote:
Shouldn't need the qb either unless you're really bad at last hitting

I understand people that get QB on PL, his damage range is way too big to get comfortable with.
From the Ghastly Eyrie I can see to the ends of the world, and from this vantage point I declare with utter certainty that this one is in the bag!
blahz0r
Profile Joined December 2010
3030 Posts
January 04 2013 21:32 GMT
#35893
Okay let me correct myself, shouldn't start with a qb unless you're really bad at last hitting. Picking it up later is fine to clear out jungle camps and side lanes.
Liquipedia
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-04 21:34:36
January 04 2013 21:34 GMT
#35894
What blahz0r is saying (and he's right about this) is that QB is a useless item to start with. If you get a freefarm lane, then QB is useless because you should be able to lasthit without it, and you can finish your important items 225 gold sooner. If you don't get a freefarm lane, then wasting money on QB early inhibits your ability to actually win the lane--when you can start without QB and then buy one after you've decisively taken control of the lane.
Moderator
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66364 Posts
January 04 2013 21:36 GMT
#35895
On January 05 2013 06:34 TheYango wrote:
What blahz0r is saying (and he's right about this) is that QB is a useless item to start with. If you get a freefarm lane, then QB is useless because you should be able to lasthit without it, and you can finish your important items 225 gold sooner. If you don't get a freefarm lane, then wasting money on QB early inhibits your ability to actually win the lane--when you can start without QB and then buy one after you've decisively taken control of the lane.

hmm makes sense

i guess i'm too used to using qb on all my melee carries :<
POGGERS
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
January 04 2013 21:37 GMT
#35896
ya I would call that a bad habit lol
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
blahz0r
Profile Joined December 2010
3030 Posts
January 04 2013 21:38 GMT
#35897
For Battle Fury carrying heroes, you can buy it later to speed up farming. Useful for cutting down that one tree to reduce time inbetween camps as well.
Liquipedia
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66364 Posts
January 04 2013 21:40 GMT
#35898
On January 05 2013 06:38 blahz0r wrote:
For Battle Fury carrying heroes, you can buy it later to speed up farming. Useful for cutting down that one tree to reduce time inbetween camps as well.

i go PMS first on am/void/spectre but usually follow up with a qb real fast

i should stop this bad habit lol @_@ because i can last hit fine with heroes like invoker and rubick
POGGERS
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
January 04 2013 21:40 GMT
#35899
Item starts I like on PL (and these are by no means the only options):
Tango+Salve+Stout+3xBranch - Standard.
Tango+Stout+RoP+Branch - This is what you get if you have an easy lane and want to skimp on regen.
Tango+Salve+PMS+2xBranch - Random gold.
Tango+Branch+2xRoP+Circlet+Wraith Band Recipe - Random gold. Buy everything you need to finish Tranquil+Aquila at side shop.
Moderator
Unleashing
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark14978 Posts
January 04 2013 21:41 GMT
#35900
You forgot boots+orb of venom with random gold for roaming PL.
From the Ghastly Eyrie I can see to the ends of the world, and from this vantage point I declare with utter certainty that this one is in the bag!
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