|
|
On December 14 2012 02:12 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 02:10 trinxified wrote:
Or also speed yourself up before using shadow walk. For it to work, you need to phase during windwalk fade time. If you phase first, windwalk takes it off 
Oh I meant while you're running from your fountain, etc. Basically just the usual moving around. My main use for it is when I'm revealed and need to run from heroes, sentry vision, dusted, and all that jazz.
Phase is just good because of the early +24 damage that multiplies with Jinada.
BTW, do I still get the Track Gold bonus when I die and someone else kills, of course while it's still active on a hero?
|
On December 14 2012 02:07 TheYango wrote:
As a related note, I'm not entirely sure of the logic behind Phase Boots on Bounty Hunter. Most of your long-distance movement is in Wind Walk, so you can't use Phase without breaking it, and in combat Track+Janggo+Yasha caps your MS anyway. Tranquils, Treads, and Arcanes I can understand, but I'm not sure what Phase brings to the table when the active by and large doesn't give you practical benefit.
That said, I've seen YYF get all four different boot types in different scenarios--so there is SOME practical use for Phase Boots, I'm just not sure why (other than big red numbers when you get Lothar's, but that's getting fixed).
I don't think yasha is standard on BH. I don't find many people building it. I feel like it's too expensive, and then it doesn't really build into anything that's useful for BH (manta is pretty meh on him IMO)
It also takes up a slot, and on BH slots are far more valuable than the average hero, IMO. Boots + shield + bottle + wand is 4 slots, add a TP and you only have one slot left. (and usually I either have a bracer/drums there or some component for deso or BKB or w/e)
e: also in chasing I find phase pretty invaluable. Phasing through units is pretty underrated IMO.
|
Netherlands45349 Posts
Manta is pretty great on Bounty because it adds to his survivability well while it also gives him a decent amount of damage.
|
On December 14 2012 02:36 Kipsate wrote:
Manta is pretty great on Bounty because it adds to his survivability well while it also gives him a decent amount of damage.
So does S&Y.
Though I guess you're referring to dodging debuffs/disables using Manta? I guess my question is regarding the maim passive, if that's of use with BH
|
On December 14 2012 02:39 trinxified wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 02:36 Kipsate wrote:
Manta is pretty great on Bounty because it adds to his survivability well while it also gives him a decent amount of damage. So does S&Y. Though I guess you're referring to dodging debuffs/disables using Manta? I guess my question is regarding the maim passive, if that's of use with BH
Manta has much better survivability, the dodge is actually unreliable unless your timing is perfect, but it also purges on activation.
Maim is not really that useful for BH, you already have max MS with Track and the Jinada slow.
|
Yeah. S&Y Don't remove dust. Manta does
|
United States47024 Posts
Yasha/Manta is a fairly normal buy on BH, I'm not sure why people are saying it isn't. The only time it's not is when you're getting Lothar's.
|
On December 14 2012 02:11 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 02:10 trinxified wrote:On December 14 2012 02:07 TheYango wrote:
As a related note, I'm not entirely sure of the logic behind Phase Boots on Bounty Hunter. Most of your map movement is in Wind Walk, so you can't use Phase without breaking it, and in combat Track+Janggo+Yasha caps your MS anyway. Tranquils, Treads, and Arcanes I can understand, but I'm not sure what Phase brings to the table when the active by and large doesn't give you practical benefit. Phase gives the cost efficient +24 damage early game, and you might have to chase a hero with the active skill to be a tad faster (shadow walk doesn't give extra movement speed). Or also speed yourself up before using shadow walk. That's the thing, Phase doesn't make you "a tad faster" for very long, because Janggo+Yasha+Track = 522 MS with any type of upgraded boots.
It's gonna be a long time when you transition from Phrase to Janggo+Yasha+Track. Very very long time.
Tread is kind of bad, you're not really autoattacking hero, and you have to chase people most of the time. Even if you can have some more couple attacks with Treads, the damage from Phrase and critPhrase does more damage from that couple autoattack.
Tranqs and Arcane are reasonable, but they are clearly inferior compared to Phrase. Like any other heroes, you go tranqs and arcane becaue you are lack of hp/mana regen. If you have a way to compensate that (bottle, team has arcane), there's no reason to go those boots.
Phrase gives you damage, and unitwalk. In big battle and so, you need some unitwalk to get in, get the job done, and get out.
|
I agree with Yango, phase is probably my least gotten boots on BH (not including Arcane). Treads is my standard, BH is quite vulnerable despite being invisible half the time.
Bounty has no use for SnY because of Jinada. Okay, imagine Jinada had no slow effect onto the skill, I would argue SnY is sub-par since you want to go into one item progression direction, SnY is middle of the road. Heavens Halberd is nice, I sometimes get that on BH but it's either Yasha-->Manta or Sange --> HH, you're busy buying BKB or another DPS item which is way more useful, then completing SnY for the "for my 5th or 6th items down the road I'll complete both".
My standard is PMS, Treads, Wand, Drums, BKB. (Bottle optional after PMS). Then either Deso/Abyssal or Yasha/Abyss/Manta. I like capping out at max MS with Yasha after my BKB, plus all that attack speed you've accrued makes basher/abyssal all the more an amazing item progression to finish you off.
|
Netherlands45349 Posts
Treads also gives hp, which phase does not.
I always get Phase because I like red numbers though.
|
United States47024 Posts
I get Phase with Lothar's for the red numbers factor, but seeing as Lothar's+Crit interaction is getting fixed, I figured I'd revisit the issue.
|
But people were primarly getting phase on bounty long before kupon's guide so I don't really see how thats relevant.
On December 14 2012 02:14 DoNotDisturb wrote: ohi, you're the hardlane drow solo... thought your name looked familiar ~_~
Yeah, I got tired of losing games =(. Drow aura too strong. Very nice QoP play though, carried us through early-mid game until Luna and I got big.
|
On December 14 2012 03:18 RuskiPanda wrote:But people were primarly getting phase on bounty long before kupon's guide so I don't really see how thats relevant. Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 02:14 DoNotDisturb wrote: ohi, you're the hardlane drow solo... thought your name looked familiar ~_~ Yeah, I got tired of losing games =(. Drow aura too strong. Very nice QoP play though, carried us through early-mid game until Luna and I got big.
Lol Luna and Drow. Big aura damage. Imagine VS along with that for support. GG aura damage.
|
What heroes benefit the most from Tranquils? Is it situational or are there some heroes you should always get them on? I realized I hardly ever (virtually never) buy them but I see some pros or high levels get them at times. Care to offer a refresher on the pros/cons?
|
United States47024 Posts
On December 14 2012 03:18 RuskiPanda wrote:
But people were primarly getting phase on bounty long before kupon's guide so I don't really see how thats relevant.
Bounty Hunter in DotA 1 never got Phase, and while this is partially because of the Crit-Phase interactions, that doesn't really tell the whole story because there are other crit heroes (e.g. Jugg) that still got Phase in DotA 1.
In DotA 2, it's a mix of the 4 boot types as i stated before. It's not "primarily" phase, at least not on most of the players who I've seen are really good at the hero (e.g. YYF). It's a situational choice, and I understand the situations that call for the other 3 boot types, I'm just not sure where Phase fits into the mix in a practical manner.
I'm not trying to say Phases are bad, but I also don't feel anyone has given me a satisfactory answer as to why Phases are so compelling and nobody has answered the "what situations do you get Phases in" question (and no, the answer is not "always"). "Yasha isn't core on BH" isn't really a suitable answer in any fashion.
|
On December 14 2012 03:04 TheYango wrote:
I get Phase with Lothar's for the red numbers factor, but seeing as Lothar's+Crit interaction is getting fixed, I figured I'd revisit the issue.
Personally I think most of my games will look like Tranquils -> Urn -> Drum -> BKB -> Yasha -> Tranquils into Treads+Vlads, finish Manta.
Tranquils are just too badass to not get them in most scenarios.
|
I usually always get tranquils on Dark Seer ( so I can regen all the health I lost by using soul ring and tanking creepwaves ), Batrider and Lone Druid ( I disassemble them in the later stages of the game so I can build a Vlads ).
|
On December 14 2012 03:38 IPA wrote:
What heroes benefit the most from Tranquils? Is it situational or are there some heroes you should always get them on? I realized I hardly ever (virtually never) buy them but I see some pros or high levels get them at times. Care to offer a refresher on the pros/cons?
Tranquil boots give you a lot of life regen (and armor) so you see heroes that tend to be weak early on pick them up (PL, Luna, Doom) or heroes that need regen, but don't need mana regen (bat, centaur, axe). If you need life and mana regen it is generally more efficient to pick up a bottle.
|
On December 14 2012 03:38 IPA wrote:
What heroes benefit the most from Tranquils? Is it situational or are there some heroes you should always get them on? I realized I hardly ever (virtually never) buy them but I see some pros or high levels get them at times. Care to offer a refresher on the pros/cons?
I love them when you don't intend to buy some kind of regen item any time soon (e.g. Luna/PL), when you have to eat lots of harass (e.g. against aggressive lanes, solo hard) or plan on roaming a lot (e.g. BH). I think when you have a particularly hard lane to fight I would even get them on someone like AM.
If you can e.g. rush a safe Perseverance, Bottle+Urn or something similar they're obviously rather crappy. =P
Edit: OH and they rock on Junglers who intend to get Vlads down the road (e.g. Ursa/Lycan). Love them on Axe, too.
|
I like how not too long ago I, and most people from what I could see, looked at Tranquils as kind of a shitty item... and now I build them more often than I do treads.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
