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On December 14 2012 01:33 trinxified wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 01:21 aintz wrote:On December 14 2012 00:58 trinxified wrote:
So quick question regarding item preference for BH.
I usually go PMS, Wand, Phase, Vlads, Deso and then S&Y.
Most of my games end by then, but if it goes on, I obviously replace PMS and Wand with situational stuff (BKB, Rapier, etc.)
Anyway, my question is, should I be going Manta instead of S&Y? phase, drums, bkb/deso depends on game which to get first. and of course a magic stick unless they have no casters for some reasons. dont get s&y. and please god dont get a bottle unless ur going to be active with it, so many noobs get a bottle because they see the progamers do it, its ultra sad. I don't get the bottle either, very rare unless I have to mid lane. I don't understand the drums choice, I guess for the Bracer transition? I find that I don't need bracers in the first place.
Drums is primarily a midgame item which is where BH thrives as a hero. It provides decent damage and stats (which helps with his poor hp and mana pool) for a cost effective price along with providing the 5% movespeed and attackspeed aura. In conjunction with the active of drums along with track, this allows BH to become an excellent chaser and really punish the enemy if they try to retreat after a poor engagement. The extra movespeed is also a great escape mechanism if you ever get caught out by dust or detection. It also helps with picking off support solo even when they have a disable, as 2 jinada strikes and a toss is often all you need at lvl 9-12 to pick off frail supports.
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It's also good to have at least 1 of each aura item on a team (bar pipe which is more circumstantial) and if BH is on a line-up he is usually the best drum carrier unless you have a mid (invoker, etc.) that can use it or a really farmed (for some reason) hard support that needs hp.
On December 14 2012 01:43 Unleashing wrote:
There's nothing wrong with having multiple drums in the same team. Quite the opposite, it's a decent thing so that you have more charges.
Yeah for sure, usually end up having at least 2 in games where my team is doing relatively well. I was just expanding on why BH in particular should pick up drums as part of his core (I also made the concession of at least 1  )
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As BH you have 3 goals
1. Track everything you can
2. Make kills happen (tracked ofc)
3. Don't die
He is one of the few heroes that makes even trades actually very worth it, abuse that and do crazy shit. Track gold is reliable too
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I usually go PMS ( not always ), phase, bottle ( roaming ), medallion ( good item, it's so underrated ). Then I either pick a BKB or go for something else like Yasha/Deso/Rapier ecc.
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On December 14 2012 01:40 RuskiPanda wrote:
It's also good to have at least 1 of each aura item on a team (bar pipe which is more circumstantial) and if BH is on a line-up he is usually the best drum carrier unless you have a mid (invoker, etc.) that can use it or a really farmed (for some reason) hard support that needs hp.
There's nothing wrong with having multiple drums in the same team, by the way. Quite the opposite, it's a decent thing so that you have more charges.
Edit: Something funny on gondar is to go euls, IIRC you can actually remove dust with it just like how you can purge off dust.
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On December 14 2012 00:07 ReignSupreme. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 23:54 Lightspeaker wrote:On December 13 2012 05:26 Sn0_Man wrote:On December 13 2012 05:21 IPA wrote:
Does playing "well" on a horrible feeder team positively affect your MMR? Or is it just the loss that the algorithm reads?
For instance, if I maintain a positive ratio, do I still receive the same MMR "score" as the 1-12 Huskarr? The "performance rating" bars under your personal dota 2 profile sometimes seem to indicate that yes, losses can still give you postive "rating". However, the accepted wisdom is that wins make you go up and losses make you go down, period. Really we don't know enough about Valves system and I think that Valve like it like that. This way, you can't try to game the system. As a counterpoint to that, however, it also encourages everyone to try to solo mid if they can at all manage it. Because the only real metric in performance is wins and losses and you've got the best chance of solo carrying a game from there. If its not wins and losses and people KNOW its not wins and losses then people are more likely to pick roles they actually enjoy and are decent at (support, hard carry, whatever) rather than picking the role that gives them the most control over their own destiny (solo mid); hence actually working more as a team player. I know that personally I'm feeling more and more pressure lately to just pick a mid and demand mid every single game until I can brute force my way out of the zone where people can't last hit, don't know what a deny is, never ward, permanently push lanes blindly and constantly fail to buy detection when they're laning against a BH or a Riki or whatever. Not all games are like that, but enough are to make it annoying; especially when I've not checked how many games my teammates have played in advance and pick a hard support. Such horrible advice~ I'm still getting paired with the people you described yet I play support 80% of the time, just make sure you use appropriate ward spots and are fast to ping, can babysit games 2ez. Example game: https://dotabuff.com/matches/77521217Look at that goddamn line up. I literally spent the first minute telling my teammate's they were retarded. Now look at that PL farm. Now look at who got the victory.
You evidently don't play with the people I described if you think warding for them and pinging the map actually makes them respond in any way whatsoever. Not to mention the number of times I've warded the runes for our mid and they've literally not even tried to take a single rune is absurd.
And unfortunately you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. No matter how much you babysit if the Antimage you're carrying is determined to dive under the opposing team's tower at level 3 to try and get a kill then theres not exactly a lot you can do about it.
On December 14 2012 01:33 trinxified wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 01:21 aintz wrote:On December 14 2012 00:58 trinxified wrote:
So quick question regarding item preference for BH.
I usually go PMS, Wand, Phase, Vlads, Deso and then S&Y.
Most of my games end by then, but if it goes on, I obviously replace PMS and Wand with situational stuff (BKB, Rapier, etc.)
Anyway, my question is, should I be going Manta instead of S&Y? phase, drums, bkb/deso depends on game which to get first. and of course a magic stick unless they have no casters for some reasons. dont get s&y. and please god dont get a bottle unless ur going to be active with it, so many noobs get a bottle because they see the progamers do it, its ultra sad. I don't get the bottle either, very rare unless I have to mid lane. I don't understand the drums choice, I guess for the Bracer transition? I find that I don't need bracers in the first place.
If you DO get the bottle though AND are active with it...double damage is pretty nice when you're trying to gank. Add a track and its basically a guaranteed kill against anything short of an ultra farmed carry. Ridiculous damage output plus no way for them to escape.
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On December 14 2012 01:41 Qbek wrote:
As BH you have 3 goals
1. Track everything you can
2. Make kills happen (tracked ofc)
3. Don't die
He is one of the few heroes that makes even trades actually very worth it, abuse that and do crazy shit. Track gold is reliable too
yeah I already do those.
The only small gripe I get is when I get too greedy when I track every hero, and sometimes I miss the kill because I "stopped" for a quick bit and didn't attack because of the track animation or I used track instead of shuriken. 
Happens with Medallion too, that's why I opt not to get Medallion anymore.
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United States47024 Posts
As a related note, I'm not entirely sure of the logic behind Phase Boots on Bounty Hunter. Most of your long-distance movement is in Wind Walk, so you can't use Phase without breaking it, and in combat Track+Janggo+Yasha caps your MS anyway. Tranquils, Treads, and Arcanes I can understand, but I'm not sure what Phase brings to the table when the active by and large doesn't give you practical benefit.
That said, I've seen YYF get all four different boot types in different scenarios--so there is SOME practical use for Phase Boots, I'm just not sure why (other than big red numbers when you get Lothar's, but that's getting fixed).
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The bounty hunter I was playing with yesterday legitimately wouldn't track opponents that he was insta-gibbing. He would walk up invis, Jinada them, attack once more, then shuri toss for the kill. I asked him about it and he said "I didn't want them to get away"... :/
This happened multiple times. We won anyways, but seriously, the animation is nigh-instant and it speeds you up!. Free Gold!
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On December 14 2012 02:07 TheYango wrote:
As a related note, I'm not entirely sure of the logic behind Phase Boots on Bounty Hunter. Most of your map movement is in Wind Walk, so you can't use Phase without breaking it, and in combat Track+Janggo+Yasha caps your MS anyway. Tranquils, Treads, and Arcanes I can understand, but I'm not sure what Phase brings to the table when the active by and large doesn't give you practical benefit.
For starters, damage is king for jinada, so phase gives lots of damage. Also, Yasha isn't really core on bounty (plus bounty goes through drum charges so fast...). Basically, MOAR IS BETTER with respect to movement speed.
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On December 14 2012 02:07 TheYango wrote:
As a related note, I'm not entirely sure of the logic behind Phase Boots on Bounty Hunter. Most of your map movement is in Wind Walk, so you can't use Phase without breaking it, and in combat Track+Janggo+Yasha caps your MS anyway. Tranquils, Treads, and Arcanes I can understand, but I'm not sure what Phase brings to the table when the active by and large doesn't give you practical benefit.
Phase gives the cost efficient +24 damage early game (multiplicative with jinada), and you might have to chase a hero with the active skill to be a tad faster (shadow walk doesn't give extra movement speed). Or also speed yourself up before using shadow walk or after, especially when running from sentry vision/hero chasing you/or when dusted.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 14 2012 02:10 trinxified wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 02:07 TheYango wrote:
As a related note, I'm not entirely sure of the logic behind Phase Boots on Bounty Hunter. Most of your map movement is in Wind Walk, so you can't use Phase without breaking it, and in combat Track+Janggo+Yasha caps your MS anyway. Tranquils, Treads, and Arcanes I can understand, but I'm not sure what Phase brings to the table when the active by and large doesn't give you practical benefit. Phase gives the cost efficient +24 damage early game, and you might have to chase a hero with the active skill to be a tad faster (shadow walk doesn't give extra movement speed). Or also speed yourself up before using shadow walk.
That's the thing, Phase doesn't make you "a tad faster" for very long, because Janggo+Yasha+Track = 522 MS with any type of upgraded boots.
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On December 14 2012 02:07 TheYango wrote:
As a related note, I'm not entirely sure of the logic behind Phase Boots on Bounty Hunter. Most of your map movement is in Wind Walk, so you can't use Phase without breaking it, and in combat Track+Janggo+Yasha caps your MS anyway. Tranquils, Treads, and Arcanes I can understand, but I'm not sure what Phase brings to the table when the active by and large doesn't give you practical benefit.
That said, I've seen YYF get all four different boot types in different scenarios--so there is SOME practical use for Phase Boots, I'm just not sure why (other than big red numbers when you get Lothar's, but that's getting fixed).
Phase while chasing maybe, the unitwalking got me a lot of kills
also phase while running away if they have dust or whatever
might be biased since I prefer max Jinada first tho
ninja'd
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On December 14 2012 02:07 TheYango wrote:
As a related note, I'm not entirely sure of the logic behind Phase Boots on Bounty Hunter. Most of your map movement is in Wind Walk, so you can't use Phase without breaking it, and in combat Track+Janggo+Yasha caps your MS anyway. Tranquils, Treads, and Arcanes I can understand, but I'm not sure what Phase brings to the table when the active by and large doesn't give you practical benefit.
That said, I've seen YYF get all four of them in different scenarios--so there is SOME practical use for Phase Boots, I'm just not sure why (other than big red numbers when you get Lothar's, but that's getting fixed).
Since you are chasing most of the time, Damage > Attack Speed. That's why I decided phase is better than treads. Since I'm playing shuriken less (only to stop TPs) most of the time, I don't get arcanes. And tranquils are kinda bad
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On December 14 2012 02:10 trinxified wrote:
Or also speed yourself up before using shadow walk.
For it to work, you need to phase during windwalk fade time. If you phase first, windwalk takes it off
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On December 14 2012 02:07 TheYango wrote:
As a related note, I'm not entirely sure of the logic behind Phase Boots on Bounty Hunter. Most of your map movement is in Wind Walk, so you can't use Phase without breaking it, and in combat Track+Janggo+Yasha caps your MS anyway. Tranquils, Treads, and Arcanes I can understand, but I'm not sure what Phase brings to the table when the active by and large doesn't give you practical benefit.
That said, I've seen YYF get all four of them in different scenarios--so there is SOME practical use for Phase Boots, I'm just not sure why (other than big red numbers when you get Lothar's, but that's getting fixed).
It adds some extra damage to the crit. He's a onehit hero, similar to kunkka. Better make sure that hit hurts a lot. Tranquils are fine. Treads are too focused on constant autoattacking which Gondar doesnt benefit from. Arcane uh, havent really tried them. Can see the mana and movement speed being nice but no survivability + nothing to help him kill targets with is not so good. Feels like a bottle would do the same thing and that's a cheaper item.
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On December 14 2012 02:11 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 02:10 trinxified wrote:On December 14 2012 02:07 TheYango wrote:
As a related note, I'm not entirely sure of the logic behind Phase Boots on Bounty Hunter. Most of your map movement is in Wind Walk, so you can't use Phase without breaking it, and in combat Track+Janggo+Yasha caps your MS anyway. Tranquils, Treads, and Arcanes I can understand, but I'm not sure what Phase brings to the table when the active by and large doesn't give you practical benefit. Phase gives the cost efficient +24 damage early game, and you might have to chase a hero with the active skill to be a tad faster (shadow walk doesn't give extra movement speed). Or also speed yourself up before using shadow walk. That's the thing, Phase doesn't make you "a tad faster" for very long, because Janggo+Yasha+Track = 522 MS with any type of upgraded boots.
i get them tranqs. :D
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On December 14 2012 02:07 TheYango wrote:
As a related note, I'm not entirely sure of the logic behind Phase Boots on Bounty Hunter. Most of your map movement is in Wind Walk, so you can't use Phase without breaking it, and in combat Track+Janggo+Yasha caps your MS anyway. Tranquils, Treads, and Arcanes I can understand, but I'm not sure what Phase brings to the table when the active by and large doesn't give you practical benefit.
That said, I've seen YYF get all four different boot types in different scenarios--so there is SOME practical use for Phase Boots, I'm just not sure why (other than big red numbers when you get Lothar's, but that's getting fixed).
I think the Unit-walking from the active is pretty underrated for chasing supports through lane and the movespeed bonus/24 damage (versus 8 from the treads stat bonus) is still fairly nice until you do end up picking up the rest of your item set.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 14 2012 02:13 DrPandaPhD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 02:07 TheYango wrote:
As a related note, I'm not entirely sure of the logic behind Phase Boots on Bounty Hunter. Most of your map movement is in Wind Walk, so you can't use Phase without breaking it, and in combat Track+Janggo+Yasha caps your MS anyway. Tranquils, Treads, and Arcanes I can understand, but I'm not sure what Phase brings to the table when the active by and large doesn't give you practical benefit.
That said, I've seen YYF get all four of them in different scenarios--so there is SOME practical use for Phase Boots, I'm just not sure why (other than big red numbers when you get Lothar's, but that's getting fixed). It adds some extra damage to the crit. He's a onehit hero, similar to kunkka. Better make sure that hit hurts a lot. Tranquils are fine. Treads are too focused on constant autoattacking which Gondar doesnt benefit from. Arcane uh, havent really tried them. Can see the mana and movement speed being nice but no survivability + nothing to help him kill targets with is not so good. Feels like a bottle would do the same thing and that's a cheaper item.
Arcanes is a choice for when you're super behind and you have to be a Track-bot+Shurikens until you get gold to catch up. In that scenario it maximizes your team utility while you piggy-back off your teammates to get the gold to catch up.
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On December 14 2012 02:13 RuskiPanda wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 02:07 TheYango wrote:
As a related note, I'm not entirely sure of the logic behind Phase Boots on Bounty Hunter. Most of your map movement is in Wind Walk, so you can't use Phase without breaking it, and in combat Track+Janggo+Yasha caps your MS anyway. Tranquils, Treads, and Arcanes I can understand, but I'm not sure what Phase brings to the table when the active by and large doesn't give you practical benefit.
That said, I've seen YYF get all four different boot types in different scenarios--so there is SOME practical use for Phase Boots, I'm just not sure why (other than big red numbers when you get Lothar's, but that's getting fixed). I think the Unit-walking from the active is pretty underrated for chasing supports through lane and the movespeed bonus/24 damage (versus 8 from the treads stat bonus) is still fairly nice until you do end up picking up the rest of your item set.
ohi, you're the hardlane drow solo... thought your name looked familiar ~_~
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EPT
