EPTI'd rather have people follow this guide, than thinking themselves pro.
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ChrisXIV
Austria3553 Posts
I'd rather have people follow this guide, than thinking themselves pro. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On November 17 2012 16:48 Rybka wrote: The attitude isn't one tenth of what new players face in-game when they're trying to learn. It's the most important thing any player in any game has to learn once he has to deal with other people. -You will suck and be bad. -You will ruin peoples games. -This is one of the most bad mannered game communites you will find. -It has a huge learning curve and it will take ages to understand anything. -You have thousands of guides to read and games to play till you're any good. -You need a thick skin cause everyone is mad at everyone for everything. All of the above is either not needed to say, exaggeration or conveying horrible thoughtprocesses for a beginner. Contentwise he has lots of weird (outdated?) recommendations (e.g. "Avoid TA, VS is a great starting hero!"), weird and unused definitions ("Phases of Game: Laning, Gank, Push"). The herotype/starting items section is okay. Then there's suddenly outdated DotA 1 content again ("Cache of the Quel'thelan" - wat?) and the "COMMON MISTAKES FOR NOOBS" section in the end is again okay, but also not great. It's just... not a great thing... to link to someone, well... new to the game overall. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On November 17 2012 17:16 ChrisXIV wrote: I'd rather have people follow this guide, than thinking themselves pro. It's guides like that (conveying a completely unneeded arrogant attitude) which set an example as to how everyone should be treated. If your teacher is an arrogant ass who pretends that what he teaches is the hardest thing possible on the planet you will - most likely - treat people just like like him once you're better at the subject. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
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ChrisXIV
Austria3553 Posts
On November 17 2012 17:22 r.Evo wrote: It's the most important thing any player in any game has to learn once he has to deal with other people. -You will suck and be bad. -You will ruin peoples games. -This is one of the most bad mannered game communites you will find. -It has a huge learning curve and it will take ages to understand anything. -You have thousands of guides to read and games to play till you're any good. -You need a thick skin cause everyone is mad at everyone for everything. All of the above is either not needed to say, exaggeration or conveying horrible thoughtprocesses for a beginner. Contentwise he has lots of weird (outdated?) recommendations (e.g. "Avoid TA, VS is a great starting hero!"), weird and unused definitions ("Phases of Game: Laning, Gank, Push"). The herotype/starting items section is okay. Then there's suddenly outdated DotA 1 content again ("Cache of the Quel'thelan" - wat?) and the "COMMON MISTAKES FOR NOOBS" section in the end is again okay, but also not great. It's just... not a great thing... to link to someone, well... new to the game overall. Sounds like the typical pub experience to me. If you start in solo queue, that is probably what's going to happen, speaking from personal experience, and from watching friends play. On November 17 2012 17:24 r.Evo wrote: It's guides like that (conveying a completely unneeded arrogant attitude) which set an example as to how everyone should be treated. If your teacher is an arrogant ass who pretends that what he teaches is the hardest thing possible on the planet you will - most likely - treat people just like like him once you're better at the subject. It's the internet, where GIFT is still a thing. It doesn't take a teacher to be an arrogant ass, if the whole class is composed of them. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34505 Posts
On November 17 2012 17:22 r.Evo wrote: It's the most important thing any player in any game has to learn once he has to deal with other people. -You will suck and be bad. -You will ruin peoples games. -This is one of the most bad mannered game communites you will find. -It has a huge learning curve and it will take ages to understand anything. -You have thousands of guides to read and games to play till you're any good. -You need a thick skin cause everyone is mad at everyone for everything. All of the above is either not needed to say, exaggeration or conveying horrible thoughtprocesses for a beginner. Contentwise he has lots of weird (outdated?) recommendations (e.g. "Avoid TA, VS is a great starting hero!"), weird and unused definitions ("Phases of Game: Laning, Gank, Push"). The herotype/starting items section is okay. Then there's suddenly outdated DotA 1 content again ("Cache of the Quel'thelan" - wat?) and the "COMMON MISTAKES FOR NOOBS" section in the end is again okay, but also not great. It's just... not a great thing... to link to someone, well... new to the game overall. I completely agree with 'avoid TA, VS is a great starting hero' thing. TA is impossible for a newbie to grasp. You need to know every single spell in the game to know how when to use refraction, and optimal meld and psiblades usage needs a lot of finesse. Not at all something a newbie should start with. No idea what Cache of the Quel'thelan is, even in Dota 1. | ||
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hooahah
3752 Posts
On November 17 2012 17:29 MrCon wrote: It's funny, I don't feel that guide is arrogant at all, perhaps you guys should read it past the title :o You are going to be constantly reminded of how much you suck for about 1-3 months (if you learn). If you read this guide and use your brain and be actively aware of how bad you suck, you can easily shave time off of your complete noob status. You could even make some kids think that you’re really good, but only if they are bad. If I'm trying to get into Dota, that right there is an instant turn off. It's so pompous and full of itself it's sickening. Something which a lot of people seem to have forgotten is that you're playing in order to have fun, not to be the most pro player to ever grace the earth. | ||
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ChrisXIV
Austria3553 Posts
On November 17 2012 17:34 hooahah wrote: If I'm trying to get into Dota, that right there is an instant turn off. It's so pompous and full of itself it's sickening. Something which a lot of people seem to have forgotten is that you're playing in order to have fun, not to be the most pro player to ever grace the earth. When I read that guide, I didn't think it was "so pompous and full of itself it's sickening", I thought it was a good preparation for things to come. The thing is, it's not like the guide is lying to you - if you have never played a Dota-like game before, you will feed to all hell, have no idea what's going on and probably not have fun. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
Pub games are only bad if you treat everyone in a way guides like that teach you to treat everyone imo. @fb: My point about that isn't that I think TA isn't hard - it's about claiming VS is great for starters. She is what I'd call the most difficult support hero in the game simply because positioning/split second judgement are more crucial on her than anyone else. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Starting supports are most easily going to learn playing on lane, and then branching out to creep pulling and roaming ganks once they're comfortable with lane play. Starting with a support that's weak in most duo lanes and generally spends early game pulling creeps or roaming is IMO a bad idea. Lich and CM are much better supports to start with IMO because of their more lane-focused play (well, CM can sort of do anything, but she's also quite good on lane). They also have much more comfortable skill usage in teamfights than VS. | ||
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Bayyne
United States1967 Posts
Nansy pansies with thin skin believe Purge's guide won't nurture the new player, which means it is a bad guide. The condescending tone (aww does the truth hurt newbie?) makes new players not want to play the game. What my eyes want to see: People with thick skin who can freely admit they suck, and move the fuck on and look at shit objectively and get better at the game (or whatever it is you do). | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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ChrisXIV
Austria3553 Posts
On November 17 2012 17:44 r.Evo wrote: I guess I play different pubs than most people. Like, compared to ANY other game I played in multiplayer that needed some kind of teamwork the people I met in dota 2 pubs are the most fun, friendly and cool people. I think I had the feeling of "WOW WHAT A DUMBASS" less in DotA 2 than anywhere else in those genres. In dota I feel the need to report someone every 20 games or so, back in League it was more like every 2nd one. =P Pub games are only bad if you treat everyone in a way guides like that teach you to treat everyone imo. @fb: My point about that isn't that I think TA isn't hard - it's about claiming VS is great for starters. She is what I'd call the most difficult support hero in the game simply because positioning/split second judgement are more crucial on her than anyone else. This is not a QQ thread, but I feel the need to tell you, how I usually get treated by teammates. Pick hard carry, tell everyone so. Choose safe lane, tell everyone so. No response, no complaints, nothing. 1 minute later, I'm looking at 2-3 other hard carries and a farm and level dependent support if I'm lucky. Then I get raged at for my shitty pick. If I try to salvage the situation by farming jungle as soon as possible I see "lol our *hard carry name here* thinks he's Ursa" in all-chat, followed by my teammates declaring gg. Also, hard carries should always teamfight. No items? Learn to farm noob, you had freefarm. Pick support. Supposed to get wards, courier, mek, pipe, arcane boots and force staff. Farming not allowed. Should always sacrifice myself when someone overextends. Also TP in to counter-gank all the time. TP on cooldown? Not an excuse for your average pub asshole. Constantly get flamed for shit that can't possibly be my fault. I report people in every game, because of the sheer amount of hate in the game. Different from other people, who seem to ignore assholes if they are winning the game for them, I report those assholes as well. So yeah, you do play different pubs than me. | ||
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Asha
United Kingdom38257 Posts
On November 17 2012 17:52 TheYango wrote: Honestly, attitude aside, the guide's content is still heavily in need of an update, which Purge has neglected to do. I think the question is then, is there a better alternative to have recommended? It's what I used when I was starting out, and while I'm still terrible it did get me over the initial hurdles. As for the attitude stuff, it just got me prepared to accept that sometimes people aren't nice, even though for the most part my pubs have been friendly. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
play medium bots play hard bots play unfair bots go into pubs, just treat the opposing team like unfair bots with significantly worse micro and coordination | ||
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Nilrem
United States3684 Posts
I had a friend that had almost no experience in an ARTS game before, and I gave her that guide. I play alongside my friend when ever able and we laugh off any pointless bickering that goes on. So one advice that I would give is if possible, play with a friend. Hopefully a friend that has some experience that can guide item build, location, etc. Oh side note with regards to pub experience, keep in mind it does also depend heavily on the level of play you are at. I notice a big difference between when I play on my main account and when I use my smurf account and play with friend (so much lower level). The lower levels of play tend to be much more vicious, but that is just my own personal experience so take with it what you wish. On November 17 2012 17:56 Asha` wrote: I think the question is then, is there a better alternative to have recommended? It's what I used when I was starting out, and while I'm still terrible it did get me over the initial hurdles. As for the attitude stuff, it just got me prepared to accept that sometimes people aren't nice, even though for the most part my pubs have been friendly. I don't think there are ones on that level or superior (although I have not looked recently). I am sure there are many out there of course. Possibly, I would probably have to recommend watching vods that were commented on or even watching streams that give insight on how to play. There are quite a few youtube videos that give advice and guides. DotaCinema Youtube I know they have hero guides and I think there were some with regards to items, laning, and even warding. So maybe a compilation of youtube dota guides might be in-order. | ||
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tpmraven
United States833 Posts
On November 17 2012 17:34 hooahah wrote: If I'm trying to get into Dota, that right there is an instant turn off. It's so pompous and full of itself it's sickening. Something which a lot of people seem to have forgotten is that you're playing in order to have fun, not to be the most pro player to ever grace the earth. Dont play dota 2 Most of the people who play dota 2, play to WIN, not for fun. By winning and playing well, they have fun. You saying "who cares i just want to play for fun and if i suck and ruin the game for my team who cares" will make the other 4 players on your team mad. You start dota 2, you WILL suck. if its your first moba ( flame shield activated ( dota nerds RAGE if you use that term)) You will suck BAD, prob more then you have ever sucked at a video game. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
Pick hard carry, tell everyone so. Choose safe lane, tell everyone so. No response, no complaints, nothing. 1 minute later, I'm looking at 2-3 other hard carries and a farm and level dependent support if I'm lucky. Then I get raged at for my shitty pick. If I try to salvage the situation by farming jungle as soon as possible I see "lol our *hard carry name here* thinks he's Ursa" in all-chat, followed by my teammates declaring gg. Also, hard carries should always teamfight. No items? Learn to farm noob, you had freefarm. Personally, I wouldn't just pick something and call xy (if I do that stuff, I already won't expect an awesome game - at least I'd try to chat someone up in hero selection and get him to roll with me). From the others perspective that makes me the asshole who is just using them to do what he wants, not a great place to start out from. I don't consider solo pubgames a good place to practice specific positions (once you have 1+ buddies the whole situation changes). If I somehow get into the spot where I e.g. randomed a carry that needs safelane, someone else picks another one and I DONT repick I either let it go or just jungle it with pulls everywhere. In the latter case I'm not expecing an awesome won game but I'll do my best to just having fun. Issues like that aside the "OMG AM YOU HAVE BF WHY NO TEAMFIGHT" usually leads to a response among the lines of "Want me to be there to stare at them funny? I'll be there and whack em once I have Manta, just hold the line guys <3" - if I notice anyone who's being really annoying I mute them because they won't be healthy for my play or for my chatting habits. If I don't mute those guys then, well, I suck and make a mental note to just mute the stupid guy next time. Pick support. Supposed to get wards, courier, mek, pipe, arcane boots and force staff. Farming not allowed. Should always sacrifice myself when someone overextends. Also TP in to counter-gank all the time. TP on cooldown? Not an excuse for your average pub asshole. "I'll get wards, you get courier xy?" works for me in 90% of the games in the beginning. "Xy, I keep spamming wards, can you try and work towards mek?" 80% of the time. When I'm like 4th position and my 5th position sucks with warding I have to suck it up and get fat enough to do both the warding and the support items. If I can't manage that than, well, I'm probably not good enough to win that specific game. Constantly get flamed for shit that can't possibly be my fault. I report people in every game, because of the sheer amount of hate in the game. Different from other people, who seem to ignore assholes if they are winning the game for them, I report those assholes as well. If you want to - it won't cost you more than the time to play games you prolly will do anyway - play 10 games where you mute anyone who triggers any angry/pissy/annoying response from you when you read their chat. If you see someone make mistakes, try to not point them out but adjust your play around them (kinda like the 4th/5th position thing I just mentioned). You ganked a lane, called it, pinged it and the guy is busy walking to his courier? Shut up about it and play accordingly. Stuff like that. Just try it out and see if you think that you played better / learned more / had more fun in those games than usual. I'm guilty of many of the things you listed myself but I've rarely seen a situation where getting pissy / pointing out mistakes / yelling / whining actually contributed to winning the game or having fun and I try to slap myself when I notice those spots afterwards. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34505 Posts
On November 17 2012 18:04 Kupon3ss wrote: play easy bots play medium bots play hard bots play unfair bots go into pubs, just treat the opposing team like unfair bots with significantly worse micro and coordination kupo #1 advice, listen to him also offlane pl best pl | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=377503 | ||
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