EPTBR#2 Very close to release - Page 7
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33723 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5908 Posts
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sudo.era
United States300 Posts
On April 12 2009 01:40 maybenexttime wrote: All I know is that he allegedly used to be a Courage League material, but they both play like newbs in BR1, so I couldn't care less. I really hoped they'd use some better players this time. In BR1 they both played like some D's. They were playing with restricted unit types and on Blizzard's terms. You could tell Blizzard basically said "use ONLY these units, and use them in this order." It made for a kind of boring cookie-cutter/rock-paper-scissors watch, but it was at least SOMETHING. My guess is that if the players were unrestricted it would have been more interesting. The problem with letting them cut loose, though is that you can't guarantee a nice, lengthy game. We might get only 8 mins of gameplay instead of 22. Quality vs quantity. Hopefully #2 is more balanced in that respect. You also have to take into account the fact that nobody's a pro at this point. Pro BW players will play in the D+ to C+ range in comparison to BW, given nobody really knows unit combinations and tactics well enough to be considered an A or B player. The most you can do at this point is experimentally spam different units to see what happens. Plus I'm betting MBS and infinite unit selection takes a little getting used to. Pro gamers used to managing unit production and control might feel stifled/frustrated by not having enough to do. It might take a while to figure out how to redirect that attention. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5908 Posts
On April 12 2009 01:53 sudo.era wrote: They were playing with restricted unit types and on Blizzard's terms. You could tell Blizzard basically said "use ONLY these units, and use them in this order." It made for a kind of boring cookie-cutter/rock-paper-scissors watch, but it was at least SOMETHING. My guess is that if the players were unrestricted it would have been more interesting. The problem with letting them cut loose, though is that you can't guarantee a nice, lengthy game. We might get only 8 mins of gameplay instead of 22. Quality vs quantity. Hopefully #2 is more balanced in that respect. You also have to take into account the fact that nobody's a pro at this point. Pro BW players will play in the D+ to C+ range in comparison to BW, given nobody really knows unit combinations and tactics well enough to be considered an A or B player. The most you can do at this point is experimentally spam different units to see what happens. Plus I'm betting MBS and infinite unit selection takes a little getting used to. Pro gamers used to managing unit production and control might feel stifled/frustrated by not having enough to do. It might take a while to figure out how to redirect that attention. They said that they always pick replays from REAL games, so I don't think there were any restrictions. And that doesn't change the fact that the Protoss in BR1 played horribly. ;; And, no, progamers won't play in the D+ to C+ ragne. That's just ridiculous. Naruto mopped the floor with that Blizzard guy he played... | ||
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Sonu
Canada577 Posts
i was up at 12:20 reading tl and saw it... and i am like.. lets wait for youtube cuz Blizzard's downloader sucks | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On April 12 2009 02:13 maybenexttime wrote: They said that they always pick replays from REAL games, so I don't think there were any restrictions. And that doesn't change the fact that the Protoss in BR1 played horribly. ;; And, no, progamers won't play in the D+ to C+ ragne. That's just ridiculous. Naruto mopped the floor with that Blizzard guy he played... not hey play with restrictions, in the first one the toss made like all fo the same units, and knowing the terran had zero detection just, didnt bother to make any DT | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5908 Posts
On April 12 2009 02:24 arb wrote: not hey play with restrictions, in the first one the toss made like all fo the same units, and knowing the terran had zero detection just, didnt bother to make any DT And that's supposed to be a proof? Do I really need to list all the glaring mistakes he made? He played like a complete noob, no wonder he didn't go for DTs... | ||
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sudo.era
United States300 Posts
On April 12 2009 02:13 maybenexttime wrote: They said that they always pick replays from REAL games, so I don't think there were any restrictions. And that doesn't change the fact that the Protoss in BR1 played horribly. ;; And, no, progamers won't play in the D+ to C+ ragne. That's just ridiculous. Naruto mopped the floor with that Blizzard guy he played... There were definitely unit restrictions. The game played like: -p1 loses battle because p2 has RPS (rock/paper/scissor) advantage -p2 loses battle because p1 gained RPS advantage -p1 loses battle because p2 re-gained RPS advantage ... then from that point on it becomes a little less predictable, but they're obviously limited in what units/buildings they can use. No comsat/comcenter for Terran? No DT's for protoss? M.U.L.E.? Seige tank? Protoss air? Blizzard didn't want them being used. A C+ player is still a good player (especially when playing South Korean hours). Usually, a C+ can wipe out a D- without any type of threat. D+'s even. You can't just say that because one guy beat another, it automatically makes him an A or B. The blizzard guy probably sucked. Also, when you look at a B player in Brood War, you have to consider the fact that he knows all his builds. He knows complex counters. He understands how to micro every unit. He knows when to keep attacking and when to back off. SC2 is an unknown entity in all of these respects. Half the units are 'the same', but actually quite different in terms of HP/armor/shield/cooldown/damage/splash-damage/etc. You don't know good build orders - it's impossible because good SC2 strategies haven't yet been formulated. You don't know complex counters; you understand simple RPS-type counters, but you don't know what complex unit combination - in terms of attacking strengths & weaknesses, defense strengths and weaknesses, unit placement, and necessary casting abilities for specific situations. You don't know the best way to micro your units - you understood how to do it in BW but the same micro may not work as well in SC2. They're pro gamers. They understand what they're doing. Blizzard just wanted the Battle Report to play out like some of their earlier presentations from single player, i.e. 'our unit works well against this unit, but now a different enemy unit is approaching, so we have to withdraw (ad nauseum)' | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33723 Posts
Trust me on this. | ||
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ZeroCartin
Costa Rica2390 Posts
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Mr.Pyro
Denmark959 Posts
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Tonyy
United States86 Posts
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zeox
Norway314 Posts
On April 12 2009 03:26 Tonyy wrote: Hm do yall think it'll be released today? I'm like checking it every 30 minutes haha, can't wait! I sure hope so, but no one knows. | ||
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RoieTRS
United States2569 Posts
On April 12 2009 03:23 MaD.pYrO wrote: Indeed that map looks wicked, but isn't it a bit small? Looks like a cnc3/cnc3kw or Red alert 3 map tbh. It just doesn't look starcraft to me. | ||
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ero
United States66 Posts
On April 12 2009 03:23 MaD.pYrO wrote: Indeed that map looks wicked, but isn't it a bit small? They've said before that the relative sizes in SC1 were transferred approximately 1:1 to SC2. So a 128x128 map in SC2 would be about the same size/gameplay wise as a 128x128 map in SC1. The problem with going 3d is that there's less room for visual stylization. Ever notice how you could overlay like 12 probes onto 1 nexus? But in "reality" a nexus could probably house thousands of probes. Now when you get into 3d the stylization starts to look "off", so that a nexus really does look relatively small. So I think the BR2 map is just a standard 96x128 map, but since it's 3d our brains allow less room for stylization and disproportionate ratios. Just overlay the BR2 map with a 96x128 map from SC like loki ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/158_Loki%20II.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://us.starcraft2.com/features/battlereports/images/Blistering%20Sands.jpg) taking everything into account (mineral patch sizes, ramp sizes, etc) they look about the same size. | ||
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Deathfate
Spain555 Posts
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JohnBall
Brazil1272 Posts
Edit: I trust in that guy with a red name. But maybe some units didn't appear in the game because they were not finalized? that is, they weren't in the game to begin with? Second Edit: That is so cool that we finally get more layers of terrain. There are 3 height levels in this map! thats awesome | ||
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