With the elimination of Maru from this season of GSL, it has become clear that the competitive SC2 scene is in a total crisis.
2/3 of the last 6 players are Zerg. Zerg players have gotten richer than any other race by far over the past 5 years by exploiting the imbalance of this game and particularly Terran players, who represent the weakest race. In between not playing the game 3 months at a time and instantly RO4ing any tournament they actually bother to prepare for, they've been figuring out how to cheese game mechanics by editing the Windows registry to build zerglings and drop creep tumors faster. While it sounds ridiculous, this commitment to exploit the inherent strengths of what is inherently by design the strongest and most overpowered race in the game actually means serious money.
The other two are Protoss players who everyone thought were gonna get stomped and ended up topping their groups because Protoss is a clown world casino race that has more to do with randomly countering their opponent than anything else. For months we've been forced to listen to Protoss players whine and demand justice for themselves meanwhile the most recent standings in GSL betray the fact that they've had nothing to complain about all along.
That leaves the Terran race. We get to listen to the undignified whining of Tastosis about it looking like Protoss MIGHT be underrpresented in GSL this season only to have all the Terrans eliminated in the round of 10. What does Terran have? The most easily cheesed early game. The slowest expansions. Being forced into compositions that instantly explode to splash damage because mech is useless. The worst early to mid game vision. The least money won over the past five years.
The last time a Terran has won a World Championship was Byun. The last time Terran won an IEM tournament was TY in early 2017. Some people thought that well, at least we have Maru, the most talented player. It has become clear that cult of Maru have deluded themselves into thinking even he could overcome the systemic disadvantages of Terran. There will be no hero to stand up and save us, we must save ourselves.
Terrans of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but a shitty imbalanced competitive scene that has been dominated by thieving Zerg players for over five years while they pretend to actually be better than you.
It's time to stop financially supporting the SC2 scene unless and until serious changes to improve the competitiveness are introduced. Why should we pretend that this game is a game that deserves being called an esport at this point? Indeed, the only way that the grifters who make this problem worse by pretending this game is fair can continue to exploit Terrans by selling us bullshit events stacked against us is if we continue to pretend that everything is okay and this is worth supporting.
I myself have given over $3,000 to Starcraft streamers and casters in the last twelve months alone. No more donations, no more subscriptions until we have justice for the Terran race. Not a single view, not a single penny.
Good points. I already haven't watched any SC2 since Maru lost to Serral at IEM, not because of that result specifically, more because all of the top 4 Zergs didn't drop a non ZvZ and seemed like totally different players at IEM than they did in any event in the 6 months leading up to it. Which just pisses me off. It just seems so clear they could have been winning everything but chose not to to make sure they didn't get nerfed before the 6 figure event.
Seeing 4 Zergs in the top 6 of this GSL just confirms I have no interest in this game anymore without an actual patch. Not one that changes literally nothing like this recent one.
Though I do disagree that P has nothing to whine about. They've definitely been the worst performing race by a large margin since around June of last year. Before that though it was T for like 3.5 years straight.
i completely agree #terranlivesmatter lets fuck up everything that $3k is quite respectable, does this figure include sasha gr*y and amour*nth as well or is it sc2 only? also, i summon Vision_ for a balance discussion
A huge part of this is the fact that maps take ages to rotate out now. Once Zergs figured out a map, it's usually better for them as they know how to counter specific cheeses/pushes/compositions/movements of all the other races. It doesn't help that this map pool is quite Zerg-favoured as well.
On April 22 2022 09:25 buzz_bender wrote: A huge part of this is the fact that maps take ages to rotate out now. Once Zergs figured out a map, it's usually better for them as they know how to counter specific cheeses/pushes/compositions/movements of all the other races. It doesn't help that this map pool is quite Zerg-favoured as well.
I've been hearing this "it's that the map pool is Zerg favored" for years now, and may, may map pools.
While I do think that more rotation could help, the real issue I think your comment highlights that top tier Zergs never lose unless they're totally surprised, which only really happens in the immediate aftermath of a patch/pool change.
On April 22 2022 09:25 buzz_bender wrote: A huge part of this is the fact that maps take ages to rotate out now. Once Zergs figured out a map, it's usually better for them as they know how to counter specific cheeses/pushes/compositions/movements of all the other races. It doesn't help that this map pool is quite Zerg-favoured as well.
I've been hearing this "it's that the map pool is Zerg favored" for years now, and may, may map pools.
While I do think that more rotation could help, the real issue I think your comment highlights that top tier Zergs never lose unless they're totally surprised, which only really happens in the immediate aftermath of a patch/pool change.
Oh, I agree - Zerg by its very nature/design is a reactive race in SC2. If the map pool, balance or meta stays the same for a long time, top Zergs will always have a huge advantage. If balance never changes, then the Zergs will know the optimal defense against any specific cheeses/pushes/compositions. If the map pool never changes, then the Zergs know exactly the right amount of units to place at specific points of the map at specific timings etc. If the meta doesn't change, then they know how to counter specific playstyles etc. (I honestly think Maru was just experimenting and trying out new meta in the latest GSL. All his builds are super odd and non-standard, and did not work out well obviously.)
It's not a surprise that Clem/Maru are not doing as well as they did 4-6 months before - Zergs have figured out the map pool, and also the mech playstyle. Maru brought out mech a bit just before IEM (esp on Hardwire), but it didn't take long for the Zergs to figure out how to counter that.
Lastly, it is also that when Zerg is overpowered, I don't think that it is so obvious compared to Protoss or Terran. When there were complaints against Protoss a while back, esp with their 2-base pushes, it *looked* and felt overpowered, and immediately a patch was issued. When ByuN was abusing reapers or Maru abusing Ravens, it *looked* unstoppable and overpowered, and then it was nerfed.
But when Zergs are overpowered, it is not that obvious, because it relies on many more subtler traits - creep vision/spread, unit positioning, timings, amount of units morphed into army/drones etc. When those things are done correctly, they don't *seem* overpowered. But when ravens/reapers or other units are being used correctly, they look overpowered. The only case that I thought it was obvious was in 2018-2019, when broodlord/infestor, or nydus/swarmhost were very obviously overpowered, but yet it took soooo long to be patched out. That was not the case for Terrans or Protosses.
On April 22 2022 13:53 -NegativeZero- wrote: I think the best way to solve this problem is by taking the money you would've donated to Starcraft streamers and giving it to me instead.
To be fair, protoss redditors did say the lack of terran performance is just caused by maps and has nothing to do with balance LOL
No patch at all would be great though, because the greatest player of all the multiverse (aka. Maru) could switch to Zerg and would totally stomp everyone. Easy money for the greatest one who would never ever drop out of anything because his play wasn't up to par or anything.
Though ofc, that won't matter, since Blizzard is in total shock that the game they don't generate any money with, won't be supported by you anymore. How will they recover from streamers not receiving money they have zero profit from?
On April 22 2022 07:54 honorablemacroterran wrote: That leaves the Terran race. We get to listen to the undignified whining of Tastosis about it looking like Protoss MIGHT be underrpresented in GSL this season only to have all the Terrans eliminated in the round of 10. What does Terran have? The most easily cheesed early game. The slowest expansions. Being forced into compositions that instantly explode to splash damage because mech is useless. The worst early to mid game vision. The least money won over the past five years.
The last time a Terran has won a World Championship was Byun. The last time Terran won an IEM tournament was TY in early 2017. Some people thought that well, at least we have Maru, the most talented player. It has become clear that cult of Maru have deluded themselves into thinking even he could overcome the systemic disadvantages of Terran. There will be no hero to stand up and save us, we must save ourselves.
I understand the complaints about zerg dominance but I don't know why people insist that terran is so much weaker than protoss. For example, Byun was world champion more recently than any protoss and TY won IEM more recently than any protoss. At Katowice, there was no protoss in the ro8. The previous Code S was won by Cure.
Both Code s ro6 and IEM ro8 had over half zergs. PvT seems to swing from favouring P to favouring T from one tournament to another, so which race is filling the spots not taken by the top zergs changes as well. Protoss and terran should both be complaining about zerg and not arguing that they are worse than each other.
Oh great we have one of these threads for both Protoss and Terran now.
We need to just cut the bullshit and go after the actual problem here. The actual problem is Zerg. It's been Zerg, it's been Zerg for YEARS because they're the only race in SC2 that has ever been allowed to stay overpowered for years at a time.
I'm of the opinion that we need to just start making tournaments where the map pool specifically is tailored to make it harder for Zerg to win. What happened at IEM 2022 was especially ridiculous because the map pool was so COMPLETELY favorable to Zerg throughout the entire tournament with no vetoes being allowed for 7 game series. That was a fucking joke. Pride of Altaris should never EVER be considered a competitive map. It's totally unacceptable that a map THAT Zerg favored should be allowed to exist.
With SC2 in maintenence mode it is going to take FOREVER for Blizzard to effectively change game balance in a way that helps this domination, but we do not need to wait that long to see it happen. Terrans and Protoss together just need to unite and tell tournaments that we're sick of map pools constantly favoring Zerg and maybe they'll do something about it.
And I know exactly where we can start. Right here on TL with the TLMC. I even know a specific place we can start just to get the brainstorming session started.
Get rid of the stupid overlord perch that is considered mandatory on every map at every natural base. Get rid of it. Zerg obviously doesn't need the help anymore, the days of Protoss all ins killing every Zerg are long gone. So why do they need the crutch map design that is specifically there just to help Zerg scouting? Get rid of it. Zerg doesn't need it.
Start combing through every "standard" map layout for little things like that that are there to help out Zerg and get rid of them.
Let's have a map pool like that. Then see what happens to the winrates. If Zerg winrates plummet then we know we're on the right track and can tone it back as needed till we get to a map pool that is actually fair for all 3 races.
Start combing through every "standard" map layout for little things like that that are there to help out Zerg and get rid of them.
This is the only realistic thing that could happen and it would be completely fair and justified. Standard maps have been favoring Zerg forever and since Zerg is very clearly the best race it should at least have a map disadvantage, the smallest of things to at least pretend we want this game to be fair and competitive.
But it wont happen, because Zergies always need to have favorable map pool to make the win at IEM (the biggest torunament) a 100% probability. It all improves the chances that Serral or Reynor will win which is what we need right?
At this point I am just not taking the competitive scene seriously at all. I just watch for the occasional fun games, the results dont matter.
On April 22 2022 16:20 Vindicare605 wrote: Oh great we have one of these threads for both Protoss and Terran now.
We need to just cut the bullshit and go after the actual problem here. The actual problem is Zerg. It's been Zerg, it's been Zerg for YEARS because they're the only race in SC2 that has ever been allowed to stay overpowered for years at a time.
I'm of the opinion that we need to just start making tournaments where the map pool specifically is tailored to make it harder for Zerg to win. What happened at IEM 2022 was especially ridiculous because the map pool was so COMPLETELY favorable to Zerg throughout the entire tournament with no vetoes being allowed for 7 game series. That was a fucking joke. Pride of Altaris should never EVER be considered a competitive map. It's totally unacceptable that a map THAT Zerg favored should be allowed to exist.
With SC2 in maintenence mode it is going to take FOREVER for Blizzard to effectively change game balance in a way that helps this domination, but we do not need to wait that long to see it happen. Terrans and Protoss together just need to unite and tell tournaments that we're sick of map pools constantly favoring Zerg and maybe they'll do something about it.
And I know exactly where we can start. Right here on TL with the TLMC. I even know a specific place we can start just to get the brainstorming session started.
Get rid of the stupid overlord perch that is considered mandatory on every map at every natural base. Get rid of it. Zerg obviously doesn't need the help anymore, the days of Protoss all ins killing every Zerg are long gone. So why do they need the crutch map design that is specifically there just to help Zerg scouting? Get rid of it. Zerg doesn't need it.
Start combing through every "standard" map layout for little things like that that are there to help out Zerg and get rid of them.
Let's have a map pool like that. Then see what happens to the winrates. If Zerg winrates plummet then we know we're on the right track and can tone it back as needed till we get to a map pool that is actually fair for all 3 races.
Stuff like getting rid of the overlord perch is a great idea and given a heavily moderate balancing touch by Blizzard something that should just kind of be done ASAP.
IF you don't like the way SC2 is going, stop watchin the sc2. That's the only way how to give a meaningful feedback. Otherwise any balance complaint - no matter how valid - will be ignored because of the shitload of spam the other 2 races will produce.