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to be completely honest about this whole situation
2 things
i respect and enjoy chibi's posts more often than not
Beyonder is one of my favorite people on the forums.
So i can sympathize with both of them. But what occurs to me having spoken to Bey about it a few times, He's right. The fact that i can read Chibi's posts without being utterly disgusted is kind of intriguing. I came to my conclusion that we as a world live in a somewhat depraved society that we can see that as fine to talk about. So it's all about how you look at that, that will bring you to a peace about this ban one way or the other. My opinion.
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On March 21 2007 14:21 SuperJongMan wrote:I like! Let's move on please.
I don't understand coming into a conversation where people are obviously passionate on both sides and injecting something so blithely dismissive  No one is shutting down, the cogs of Team Liquid are not in jeapordy of ceasing their forward march, and this discussion is perfectly valid and, in fact, necessary.
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Is it really neccesary?
Whenever there are questions in TL.net about these things
I still remember Mensrea's words..
"You are in our house, you follow our rules"
End.
You can't argue with that.
EDIT - http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17911
Yeah. Chibi knows those as well as anyone that's been here as long as he has.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Rules can be argued. Ethics discussed. Rules retracted or ignored by the "house owners." When we see division amongst those who issue the rules you just refer to, we see a discussion worth having.
And seriously, stoners ending a fucking conversation? That'll be a nice cool day in hell.
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On March 21 2007 14:34 Mensrea wrote:
All other things being equal, we will give preferential treatment to site members who have been with us longer (as reflected in their post count + length of time with us as a registered member). It�s a simple recognition of the quality of these people. Longevity and contribution are prized commodities around here. In a similiar vein, "known" pro/semi-pro players will also be treated with deference (yes, quite a few hang out here). Don't complain - these guys have earned it.
Remember: we ban little girly-kids all the time because they sign on thinking they can say and do whatever they want to whomever they want right from the get-go � just like they�re used to doing at other sites. That attitude won�t work here. That�s a promise. As far as new users are concerned (i.e. anyone with less than 500 or so quality posts to their name), this site is Holy Ground. The veterans are the users who�ve consistently shown respect to the site and to others and that�s why they�re still here. Show them some respect.
In practice, this policy means a user who has 1000+ posts may be able to get away with a few minor transgressions in etiquette with just a warning. If you�re at 50 posts and you try the same kind of stunt, then we may just ban you. Harsh? Yes. Unfair? Most definitely. But that�s the way life is. Learn to live with it.
This also means you should think twice before calling that guy with 5000+ posts a jackass. If the guy�s been with us that long, chances are YOU�RE the one being an idiot. Some battles are just not worth fighting � just move on.
however also from the "10 commandments"
and for the love of christ noone get on my back about the third paragraph. that wasnt the point.
however, despite who he was, lets all read the last one again.
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Yeah, he had 8 previous bans and was told to avoid pedoism for awhile.
The quote the nice way of saying, we give preferential treatment.
He definately did get it.
Anyways, I'd rather not be dragged into this. I just wanted to say I don't think everyone else should be so dramatic about it either. Chibi will be a martyr now. Yay for Chibi.
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i didnt mean that to be directed -solely- to you. im sorry. just using your link sir. i'll fix the post.
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United States44402 Posts
On March 21 2007 14:13 Liquid`Drone wrote:
kwark, there was no further offense made after the temp bans had ended. almost my entire beef with chibi being banned lies herein ; it sets the precedence that moderators can, after temp banning, choose to permanently ban the same person without that person posting anything objectionable after returning, due to their own personal issues with that poster and justify it through saying "he should have been banned a long time ago".
Which was my point. That according to Bey he was banned for things that he'd already been temp banned for in the past. Which in itself was wrong. But it's also bullshit. Had that topic not come up and pissed Bey off he'd not have been banned. Bey banned him in the heat of the moment and then justified it off things that Chibi had already been disciplined for.
Whoever handed him a temp ban last time felt that a temp ban was the appropriate response.
I have no idea why bey thinks it is his place to add a perm ban on for "the whole picture" after another mod has dealt with the issue.
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chibi disboyed the rules and got banned.
that's how it works and how it has always worked in the tl.net house. If you don't like it, leave (or get banned).
that being said, their reasons for banning him are fucking shitty. their morality is highly questionable, and quite frankly their ability to evaluate this situation is fucking disgusting.
for the first time in the history of tl.net i want to come to it less simply because i didnt agree with mods' decision.
if mensrea was here chibi would not have been banned.
edit - i am a sad panda.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Mora, be a happy panda. I used the words, Cock / Mora / and massive on page 15. Happy?
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On March 21 2007 14:34 SuperJongMan wrote:
Is it really neccesary?
Whenever there are questions in TL.net about these things
I still remember Mensrea's words..
"You are in our house, you follow our rules"
End.
You can't argue with that.
With all due respect this is a crock of shit, I can and will argue with this sort of attitude on these matters. Of course, no one is questioning who has the ultimate jurisdiction here, and no one is suggesting any usurpation of the staff's authority to ban or not ban users as they see fit. The questions being debated here absolutely do not pertain to that quote, as no one is talking about following or not following the rules. To pretend like this discussion that we are having amounts to someone clearly breaking an enforced rule and people refusing to accept it is to feign ignorance of the content of this thread.
Many, many smart people are posting differing opinions here, and even within the staff there appears to be a multifaceted set of large to slight differences of opinion. This is a community that is build around discussion. This kind of attempt to dismiss and cut off a conversation of this depth and importance is very aggravating! This conversation is absolutely necessary to clarifying administrative positions on difficult cases like these, to allow dissenting opinions to be heard and acknowledged by the staff, to educate newer forum users about some of the complicated dynamics that exist in places like this, and, hopefully, to get at larger issues of relationships, community, prejudice and fairness as they pertain to sites like ours.
If we all followed the point of view expressed by your posts, we should just silently swallow any and every decision made by administrators and dampen our native intellectual curiosity about how and why such decisions are made. This dialog is irreplaceable, please don't be dismissive of it.
edit: in light of the posts made in between the last ones i read before posting this and the ones posted before it, I feel the need to clarify that I hold no animosity toward you personally. I feel, though, like that attitude is fairly representative of a lot of the comments throughout this thread and the stimey one too. There's a sense that it's not worth talking about, and that just frustrates me to no end.
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Hey all, I been lurking this forum for a few years and appreciate it very much. Thanks for the good work you guys, you know who you are! I must admit I never read Chibis post closely, they just dont interest me that much, but I did read this thread. I think its a weak response to perm ban a guy like that, it's way over the top. Just ban the dude for a couple of weeks, if he keeps up, ban again. Iterate - simple as that. That's my 1 post cents..
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On March 21 2007 11:42 Liquid`Drone wrote:
yes because every single post by every single forum user ever made is supposed to be taken 100% literally and seriously.
if one had chosen to actually read chibis posts over the years and not attempt to misinterpret him in a way that demonises him, one would realize he's harmless, and I knew what his stance on pedophelia was through reading his posts on tl.net, not through discussing lenghtly with him on msn or anything like that.
if you search you could find a post made by myself which contains nothing other than the word "nigger", which I thought was a fucking hilarious post while making it, and in context, I genuinely believe it was. out of context and disregarding all my other posts, it would be very very bannable. chibi made one single post (the one with all the girls) that could have been bannable by itself, but it got him temp banned. he's made several other posts that are, if taken seriously, offensive, but if you read all his posts and get familiar with the character I don't see how one could be.
I mostly agree, but i think that sometimes he misjudged the consequences and did piss some people off (me included) even though they (and I) later came to get the joke. I think he mistakenly pushed it too far, but he was really just messing around, not a real troll like say 8882 or that Reason guy from the strategy forum.
I also talked to him on msn and he seemed like a pretty funny (in a weird kind of way) guy.
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On March 21 2007 14:43 Mora wrote:
chibi disboyed the rules and got banned.
that's how it works and how it has always worked in the tl.net house. If you don't like it, leave (or get banned).
that being said, their reasons for banning him are fucking shitty. their morality is highly questionable, and quite frankly their ability to evaluate this situation is fucking disgusting.
for the first time in the history of tl.net i want to come to it less simply because i didnt agree with mods' decision.
if mensrea was here chibi would not have been banned.
edit - i am a sad panda.
With your logic, if I'm not mistaken...
A guy is an outspoken racist and is very vocal about his views. Everyone excepts that racism is wrong. This guy continues to beat the shit out of you 8 times before being expelled from the school. Do you really think that when this guy gets expelled people are going to be chanting "racism racism" ?
This may be an online community but their should still be rules that should be followed. If you can't follow the rules, after being warned 8 TIMES (seriously why is this even a debate...this is fucking retarded) .. then you don't deserve to be here. And in my honest opinion, chibi doesn't give a fuck about anyone here because he couldn't change his actions to stay in the community. So why then do you care so much about him?
Not all this pertains to just you, because you did justify that he got banned for breaking the rules.
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On March 21 2007 14:50 bErAtEd- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2007 14:43 Mora wrote:
chibi disboyed the rules and got banned.
that's how it works and how it has always worked in the tl.net house. If you don't like it, leave (or get banned).
that being said, their reasons for banning him are fucking shitty. their morality is highly questionable, and quite frankly their ability to evaluate this situation is fucking disgusting.
for the first time in the history of tl.net i want to come to it less simply because i didnt agree with mods' decision.
if mensrea was here chibi would not have been banned.
edit - i am a sad panda. With your logic, if I'm not mistaken... A guy is an outspoken racist and is very vocal about his views. Everyone excepts that racism is wrong. This guy continues to beat the shit out of you 8 times before being expelled from the school. Do you really think that when this guy gets expelled people are going to be chanting "racism racism" ? This may be an online community but their should still be rules that should be followed. If you can't follow the rules, after being warned 8 TIMES (seriously why is this even a debate...this is fucking retarded) .. then you don't deserve to be here. And in my honest opinion, chibi doesn't give a fuck about anyone here because he couldn't change his actions to stay in the community. So why then do you care so much about him? Not all this pertains to just you, because you did justify that he got banned for breaking the rules.
Shut the fuck up.
Fuck I hope you get banned you tool.
Your example is shit AND you know nothing about the poster, it seems that you fucking read the "banned 8 times" bolded part then posted.
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United States44402 Posts
On March 21 2007 14:50 bErAtEd- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2007 14:43 Mora wrote:
chibi disboyed the rules and got banned.
that's how it works and how it has always worked in the tl.net house. If you don't like it, leave (or get banned).
that being said, their reasons for banning him are fucking shitty. their morality is highly questionable, and quite frankly their ability to evaluate this situation is fucking disgusting.
for the first time in the history of tl.net i want to come to it less simply because i didnt agree with mods' decision.
if mensrea was here chibi would not have been banned.
edit - i am a sad panda. With your logic, if I'm not mistaken... A guy is an outspoken racist and is very vocal about his views. Everyone excepts that racism is wrong. This guy continues to beat the shit out of you 8 times before being expelled from the school. Do you really think that when this guy gets expelled people are going to be chanting "racism racism" ? This may be an online community but their should still be rules that should be followed. If you can't follow the rules, after being warned 8 TIMES (seriously why is this even a debate...this is fucking retarded) .. then you don't deserve to be here. And in my honest opinion, chibi doesn't give a fuck about anyone here because he couldn't change his actions to stay in the community. So why then do you care so much about him? Not all this pertains to just you, because you did justify that he got banned for breaking the rules.
Not the case. There was no rulebreaking between the end of his last temp ban and his permanent ban. There was Beyonder getting pissed off with him and flaming him, there was Chibi responding maturely (only person to cite statistics in a thread full of opinions) and there was Beyonder banning him. But there was absolutely no rule breaking. Every rule he'd broken in the past he'd already served his time in Disneyland for.
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On March 21 2007 14:49 Y3ahright wrote:
Hey all, I been lurking this forum for a few years
Joined the same day you post, and you've been lurking for years? Why would a forum lurker feel the need to hide his other user name which can easily be switched and no one will notice because he's a forum lurker.
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On March 21 2007 14:54 DeadVessel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2007 14:50 bErAtEd- wrote:On March 21 2007 14:43 Mora wrote:
chibi disboyed the rules and got banned.
that's how it works and how it has always worked in the tl.net house. If you don't like it, leave (or get banned).
that being said, their reasons for banning him are fucking shitty. their morality is highly questionable, and quite frankly their ability to evaluate this situation is fucking disgusting.
for the first time in the history of tl.net i want to come to it less simply because i didnt agree with mods' decision.
if mensrea was here chibi would not have been banned.
edit - i am a sad panda. With your logic, if I'm not mistaken... A guy is an outspoken racist and is very vocal about his views. Everyone excepts that racism is wrong. This guy continues to beat the shit out of you 8 times before being expelled from the school. Do you really think that when this guy gets expelled people are going to be chanting "racism racism" ? This may be an online community but their should still be rules that should be followed. If you can't follow the rules, after being warned 8 TIMES (seriously why is this even a debate...this is fucking retarded) .. then you don't deserve to be here. And in my honest opinion, chibi doesn't give a fuck about anyone here because he couldn't change his actions to stay in the community. So why then do you care so much about him? Not all this pertains to just you, because you did justify that he got banned for breaking the rules. Shut the fuck up. Fuck I hope you get banned you tool. Your example is shit AND you know nothing about the poster, it seems that you fucking read the "banned 8 times" bolded part then posted.
After belonging to this community for about 6 months I seriously hope I get banned to.
So what most of you are "good starcraft" people, almost half of you are complete assholes. Now this doesn't apply to any of the mods because I have never had any problems with them. In fact they are always kind and helping.
The same cannot be said for the rest of the community. All of you pricks with a high post count come in here and think that just because you have a large number next to your name that you can say whatever the hell you want. No I didn't just read the bolded 8 bans part. In fact I read almost the entire thread before it completely disgusted me.
I don't give a shit if one of the progamers is posting on team liquid..You should still show respect to people, especially the admins. If someone is asked not to talk about something, then you fuckin stop talking about it. I don't think its that hard of a concept to follow, but who knows.
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On March 21 2007 15:04 bErAtEd- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2007 14:54 DeadVessel wrote:On March 21 2007 14:50 bErAtEd- wrote:On March 21 2007 14:43 Mora wrote:
chibi disboyed the rules and got banned.
that's how it works and how it has always worked in the tl.net house. If you don't like it, leave (or get banned).
that being said, their reasons for banning him are fucking shitty. their morality is highly questionable, and quite frankly their ability to evaluate this situation is fucking disgusting.
for the first time in the history of tl.net i want to come to it less simply because i didnt agree with mods' decision.
if mensrea was here chibi would not have been banned.
edit - i am a sad panda. With your logic, if I'm not mistaken... A guy is an outspoken racist and is very vocal about his views. Everyone excepts that racism is wrong. This guy continues to beat the shit out of you 8 times before being expelled from the school. Do you really think that when this guy gets expelled people are going to be chanting "racism racism" ? This may be an online community but their should still be rules that should be followed. If you can't follow the rules, after being warned 8 TIMES (seriously why is this even a debate...this is fucking retarded) .. then you don't deserve to be here. And in my honest opinion, chibi doesn't give a fuck about anyone here because he couldn't change his actions to stay in the community. So why then do you care so much about him? Not all this pertains to just you, because you did justify that he got banned for breaking the rules. Shut the fuck up. Fuck I hope you get banned you tool. Your example is shit AND you know nothing about the poster, it seems that you fucking read the "banned 8 times" bolded part then posted. After belonging to this community for about 6 months I seriously hope I get banned to. So what most of you are "good starcraft" people, almost half of you are complete assholes. Now this doesn't apply to any of the mods because I have never had any problems with them. In fact they are always kind and helping. The same cannot be said for the rest of the community. All of you pricks with a high post count come in here and think that just because you have a large number next to your name that you can say whatever the hell you want. No I didn't just read the bolded 8 bans part. In fact I read almost the entire thread before it completely disgusted me. I don't give a shit if one of the progamers is posting on team liquid..You should still show respect to people, especially the admins. If someone is asked not to talk about something, then you fuckin stop talking about it. I don't think its that hard of a concept to follow, but who knows.
When did he mention your post count? I think people are reacting badly to your post not because you are new here but because it was poorly thought out. I think you are misguided on this issue, but that has nothing to do with your post count. We all had low post counts at one time.
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