| Forum Index > Closed |
|
Shrinkzxo
Dotoland672 Posts
 PartinG from new season's GSL and SSL. Many speculate his whereabouts. But according to  Mayuki, who was once rumoured to be courted by the big boy, he is overseas to dodge South Korean's national military service, which usually lasts for more than two years. PartinG is allegedly said military service, which would happen within 6 months if he goes back, would destroy his career and that is the reason he's not going back to his homeland.Source: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Q4jxi61.jpg) | ||
|
bypLy
757 Posts
| ||
|
Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
| ||
|
Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
| ||
|
HoZBlooddrop
Italy324 Posts
| ||
|
LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
| ||
|
intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:05 travis wrote: lol is it that easy to avoid military service there? My understanding is that if he dodges the draft, he won't be allowed back into Korea. | ||
|
Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:05 travis wrote: lol is it that easy to avoid military service there? No. It is extremely hard to avoid military service. I suppose he`s just postponing it. | ||
|
JonnySC2
Germany119 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:06 HoZBlooddrop wrote: isint he like 21? cant he just postpone it like all other pros?! Asking myself exactly the same question. A lot of pros were able to postpone until they were 26 or older. | ||
|
Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
| ||
|
ejozl
Denmark3364 Posts
| ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
Everyone in their right mind would be absolutely against any form of slave army. | ||
lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
| ||
|
TedBurtle
Belarus201 Posts
| ||
|
intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:10 Laserist wrote: Is it possible to refuse military service in Korea? Maybe instead doing some civil services? I think* that only happens if you're not able-bodied. I believe* that iloveoov was in the reserves instead of active duty due to his arm*. *don't know for sure at all, put me at like... 25% confidence in this statement * see above *being injured | ||
|
Ej_
47656 Posts
| ||
|
SoleSteeler
Canada5417 Posts
| ||
|
inermis
353 Posts
| ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:17 inermis wrote: obligatory miliatary service is a bad idea, military is something more than a job, it should be chosen by you and not be forced upon... Yes, it breaks just about every single articles on human rights declaration. | ||
|
intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
*assuming he dodged it | ||
|
ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
| ||
|
Growiel
Korea (South)363 Posts
We have countless stories of American-Koreans who got to Korea for the first time, without knowing they were registered in Korea, and were forced enrolled because they are Korean nationals. If he's using being abroad as an excuse to postpone it, it's not too bad, but if he was actually called to enroll and fled the country, he's in for some bad times when he comes back (and he will). EDIT: Whether people agree with it or not will not change Parting's situation regarding his countries laws. | ||
|
R1CH
Netherlands10340 Posts
| ||
stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
| ||
|
PepsiMaxxxx
Sweden5452 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:18 GreenHealing wrote: Yes, it breaks just about every single articles on human rights declaration. North Korea doesn't care. | ||
|
Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:03 bypLy wrote: shame on him avoiding duty for his motherland Hell no, good on him. National service is disgusting. It doesn't matter if there's a weirdo neighbor who keeps threatening to hurt you, nobody should be forced to learn how to fight, let alone fight in a war. | ||
|
Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:20 Growiel wrote: As long as he never enters Korea again, he should be fine. We have countless stories of American-Koreans who got to Korea for the first time, without knowing they were registered in Korea, and were forced enrolled because they are Korean nationals. If he's using being abroad as an excuse to postpone it, it's not too bad, but if he was actually called to enroll and fled the country, he's in for some bad times when he comes back (and he will). EDIT: Whether people agree with it or not will not change Parting's situation regarding his countries laws. This is another story; Amer-Koreans have green cards, while Parting has not. Anyway, normally I do not use F words; but if this is true, he is literally fucked. If someone is convicted dodging his draft, he`ll be sentenced 1 year and 5 months in jail, because Korean law states that people who served more than 1.5 years will be exempted from his duty. (which means the guy still have to serve his duty even after his time.) However, I suppose Parting is not avoiding his duty, because postponing one`s military service is very easy; you can easily delay it up to five years just by taking civil service exam. | ||
|
Avorin
Germany46 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:18 GreenHealing wrote: Yes, it breaks just about every single articles on human rights declaration. That is complete and utter nonsense. | ||
|
SuperHofmann
Italy1741 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:17 inermis wrote: obligatory miliatary service is a bad idea, military is something more than a job, it should be chosen by you and not be forced upon... This is what everybody think, but if your neighbors want destroy you probably military service is needed... | ||
|
The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:12 GreenHealing wrote: Military conscription is extremely immoral and psychopathic anyway, props for him if thats true. I for one have not agreed anywhere to put my life in danger to defend anything. Its allright that there are some responsibilities, law in general. But there difference between military conscription and laws in general is, that laws are generally meant for the common good of everyone. Conscription has that premise on its very foundation, that some people are expendable(usually men compared to women and stuff like that) and that its somehow okay to violate basic human rights for safety and health and it also violates the equity of genders because men are subjected to this slavery based on gender. Everyone in their right mind would be absolutely against any form of slave army. Your whole argument doesn't matter when your neighbour is a tyrannic dictatorship that would be glad to invade you given the opportunity. Your pinky thoughts may sound cool, but human rights are not some kind of universal acquired thing, if it was not for the armed forces defending it it would not exist. And it's never all black and white. The military service may be two years but it gives a professional background to every korean man since they will learn a normal job beside the military training. But for Parting I don't really understand why he can't do like all the other pro-gamers that postponed it for like 8+ years. I can't believe it's that difficult with so many players doing it. | ||
|
BlackZetsu
United States179 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:12 GreenHealing wrote: Military conscription is extremely immoral and psychopathic anyway, props for him if thats true. I for one have not agreed anywhere to put my life in danger to defend anything. Its allright that there are some responsibilities, law in general. But there difference between military conscription and laws in general is, that laws are generally meant for the common good of everyone. Conscription has that premise on its very foundation, that some people are expendable(usually men compared to women and stuff like that) and that its somehow okay to violate basic human rights for safety and health and it also violates the equity of genders because men are subjected to this slavery based on gender. Everyone in their right mind would be absolutely against any form of slave army. I second this. Equally immoral is the massive taxation and propaganda system in developed countries that exploits conflicts among other people to enrich the military industrial complex. | ||
Waxangel
United States33343 Posts
| ||
|
Carnot
United States2 Posts
| ||
|
Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:30 SuperHofmann wrote: This is what everybody think, but if your neighbors want destroy you probably military service is needed... I'd argue this day and age, there is simply no reason for someone learning to do war, let alone your best 2 years of life. Learning how to shoot people will not help you, when a thermo-nuclear war breaks. Better give proper short education on how to survive rather than fire with rifles for 2 years(lol). Military service mostly consists of being a slave to you superiors(!) anyways. | ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:31 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: Your whole argument doesn't matter when your neighbour is a tyrannic dictatorship that would be glad to invade you given the opportunity. Your pinky thoughts may sound cool, but human rights are not some kind of universal acquired thing, if it was not for the armed forces defending it it would not exist. And it's never all black and white. The military service may be two years but it gives a professional background to every korean man since they will learn a normal job beside the military training. But for Parting I don't really understand why he can't do like all the other pro-gamers that postponed it for like 8+ years. I can't believe it's that difficult with so many players doing it. If South-Korea, or any country where people live in consider it worth defending with their lives, they will do it. If the existence of nation is based on externally imposed slavery and people would not raise a finger for it in crisis, then that nation deserves to cease to exist. Praising human rights and keeping conscription is severe double standard. Its entirely possible to defend nation with voluntary, professional army/reserve especially with todays warfare. Btw, the worlds most powerful armed forces in the world is based on voluntary enlisting. (pro tip: usa) | ||
|
The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:35 Carnot wrote: With mandatory service in Korea is it possible to do something like civil service instead? If not how likely is it that a person's assignment will be combat related? Also what happens if someone is pursuing something like a graduate degree? Just curious. University studies are like the top legit way to postpone your service, sometimes you can also do your degree and service at the same time, which effectively reduces the time spent on actual military training during the service. And Greenheating, during all serious wars the US also used conscription. And i can assure you they would do it again if under some serious threat of being invaded. Without conscription the world wars would have been lost no questions asked. Human rights are only alive because of it so I don't really see where the double standard is. Sure ideally you don't want it, but during war times when your country's soil is under serious threat, you need it. | ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
Only reason why it "technically" doesnt break human rights, is that the nations were smart enough to place a small mention how none of this applies to duties such as conscription. | ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:43 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: University studies are like the top legit way to postpone your service, sometimes you can also do your degree and service at the same time, which effectively reduces the time spent on actual military training during the service. And Greenheating, during all serious wars the US also used conscription. And i can assure you they would do it again if under some serious threat of being invaded. Maybe so since they have technically laws for conscription, but it doesnt change the fact that we should not fall for that. But realistically, USA probably will never reinstitute draft because it simply isnt really good option. We dont expect people to go into house on fire to save others if that would put them in danger too. Logically, we shouldnt expect that from hundreds of thousands of people in "war". | ||
|
Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:43 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: University studies are like the top legit way to postpone your service, sometimes you can also do your degree and service at the same time, which effectively reduces the time spent on actual military training during the service. You have to get MSc (and there`s a chance of fail, because some of applicants have Ph.D) if you want to do both at the same time; and your duty time will be extended to 3 yrs. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:06 HoZBlooddrop wrote: isint he like 21? cant he just postpone it like all other pros?! If you're studying you can postpone for quite a while, not sure what the hard cut-off age is... Dodging Korean draft seems like a very serious decision if it's true, as I understand it, it would make him almost unemployable in the future at the very least. Though I'm definitely no expert. I'm not sure how I feel about this being a thread... It seems sort of unlikely that he is really dodging the draft and not, as others have said, postponing it. | ||
|
riotjune
United States3392 Posts
Not like the severely outnumbered South Korea's got a choice in the matter anyway, unless they want North Korea to just walk into Seoul. That, or you could always abandon the homeland that raised you and move to another country (like Parting did?) | ||
|
kenzy_5g
13 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:17 inermis wrote: obligatory miliatary service is a bad idea, military is something more than a job, it should be chosen by you and not be forced upon... Good idea. Let's apply the ethics of our own culture onto others and pretend like we are superior. | ||
|
EatingBomber
1017 Posts
| ||
|
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:48 riotjune wrote: Military service is the duty of all citizens. Not like the severely outnumbered South Korea's got a choice in the matter anyway, unless they want North Korea to just walk into Seoul. That, or you could always abandon the homeland that raised you and move to another country (like Parting did?) Eh, I'm not gonna judge anyone who doesn't want to spend 2 years working for 50$ a month. Still, I seriously doubt he's truly dodging it, the consequences are too serious. | ||
|
Topin
Peru10055 Posts
| ||
|
Holdenintherye
Canada1441 Posts
| ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
We as humans, need to have compassion for each other and we MUST find viable ways to create defences for our way of living without breaking every single principle that we so hold dear. | ||
|
Voltz_sc21
66 Posts
| ||
|
EatingBomber
1017 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:35 Laserist wrote: I'd argue this day and age, there is simply no reason for someone learning to do war, let alone your best 2 years of life. Learning how to shoot people will not help you, when a thermo-nuclear war breaks. Better give proper short education on how to survive rather than fire with rifles for 2 years(lol). Military service mostly consists of being a slave to you superiors(!) anyways. This is incredibly simplistic. Even in the nuclear age, there have been numerous ground wars, including the Korean War itself which created S. Korea. Incidentally, it was the USA which threatened nuclear war against China then. | ||
|
sharkie
Austria18390 Posts
| ||
|
EngrishTeacher
Canada1109 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:49 kenzy_5g wrote: Good idea. Let's apply the ethics of our own culture onto others and pretend like we are superior. This. Also from a utilitarian perspective, I've always imagined that conscription improves the overall productivity and other positive social metrics for young men more so than its cost in service time. From my travels in Korea/China, this probably could go either way. I've seen quite a few little spoiled brats turn out for the better through just a half year's worth of military style discipline training, but then again a good portion of my old acquaintances back in the motherland are already insanely hardworking due to the cut-throat professional careers environment. It'd be interesting to look into studies for this, if they exist. | ||
|
EatingBomber
1017 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:54 GreenHealing wrote: If you think about this issue in grassroots level, when some 18year old kid is getting dragged out of his home and maybe crying because he and his folks may never see each other again and such pain and sorrow is directly caused by this oppressive state that imposed this law. How can anyone see this justified? Those who dont oppose this, are 100% psychopaths. We as humans, need to have compassion for each other and we MUST find viable ways to create defences for our way of living without breaking every single principle that we so hold dear. Yes yes, some people don't like doing things against their will. Please don't make it sound as if some kind of press gang is roaming Korea forcing kids into the army; this is sanctioned by the South Korean government, which also happens to be democratically elected, so at least even if conscription is not loved, it is not hated either. Yes, compassion is a good virtue, but against the morals of a totalitarian dictatorship? | ||
|
rotta
5585 Posts
| ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:00 EatingBomber wrote: Yes yes, some people don't like doing things against their will. Please don't make it sound as if some kind of press gang is roaming Korea forcing kids into the army; this is sanctioned by the South Korean government, which also happens to be democratically elected, so at least even if conscription is not loved, it is not hated either. Yes, compassion is a good virtue, but against the morals of a totalitarian dictatorship? Those 18 year old kids are gonna get "press ganged" from their homes by military police if they dont show up voluntary. | ||
|
Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
| ||
|
billynasty
United States260 Posts
| ||
|
REyeM
2674 Posts
| ||
|
The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
Second don't forget that North Korean army is like 3 times larger than South Korean army; SK has to compete with it so how would you do that with only a voluntary service? | ||
|
Yiome
China1687 Posts
Once over a certain age, going back to Korea is the end of their career If Parting can secure a stable job as a pro in China or Taiwan as a player I don't see there is anything wrong with this. So basically what he want is probably just to play for a few more years by staying oversea, then when he does feel like to retire he will return to Korea. | ||
|
Harstem
Netherlands262 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:06 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: First, 18 yo are adults and not kids. Second don't forget that North Korean army is like 3 times larger than South Korean army; SK has to compete with it so how would you do that with only a voluntary service? South-korea has almost the complete international community on its side | ||
|
showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
| ||
|
Harstem
Netherlands262 Posts
| ||
|
Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:06 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: First, 18 yo are adults and not kids. Second don't forget that North Korean army is like 3 times larger than South Korean army; SK has to compete with it so how would you do that with only a voluntary service? You`re right; but keep in mind that North Korean has more troops because their duty lasts 10 years. They cannot compete with SK except Nuclear weapon. | ||
|
Carnot
United States2 Posts
| ||
|
The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:08 Harstem wrote: South-korea has almost the complete international community on its side They NEED the population to be able to help the professional army in case of conflict because their permanent force would not stand a chance against NK, and they can't just rely on allies, that would be stupid, each country ultimately wants to be able to defend itself, by itself. | ||
|
Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
I can only speak from a personal point of view in that losing 2 years of your life and your career is a tough ask for anyone in this era. This is not the 60's or the 40's where there is work for almost anyone no matter your qualifications | ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:06 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: First, 18 yo are adults and not kids. Second don't forget than North Korean army is like 3 times larger than South Korean army; SK has to compete with it so how would you do that with only a voluntary service? When people turn 18, they dont mystically turn into full grown adults that are perfectly equipped to deal with various issues and judge major decisions about their life. Many 18 year old people are still pretty much childs. If South Korea ceases to exist because people didnt bother to defend it voluntary, then SK was not worth it and its the fault of the people living there for not doing anything for their homeland. Also, there is this common fallacy that modern wars are won by outnumbering in reserve. That is absolutely not true, havent been true for quiet some time. Especially in North Korea, its very likely that those soldiers are not much of a soldiers. Also, this is definitely not something that can be decided by democracy. When its matter of life and death and safety of individual people, the majority cant decide that. By law, we should protect the minority who dont want to place themselves in danger. | ||
|
bartus88
Netherlands491 Posts
| ||
|
Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:10 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: They NEED the population to be able to help the professional army in case of conflict because their permanent force would not stand a chance against NK, and they can't just rely on allies, that would be stupid, each country ultimately wants to be able to defend itself, by itself. http://www.globalfirepower.com/ I believe you`re underestimating SK, or overestimating NK. | ||
|
uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
If South Korea ceases to exist because people didnt bother to defend it voluntary, then SK was not worth it and its the fault of the people living there for not doing anything for their homeland. Literally what the fuck. | ||
|
RewardedFool
17 Posts
| ||
|
WTFZerg
United States704 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:08 Harstem wrote: South-korea has almost the complete international community on its side What does it matter if SK has the support of the international community? They need to be able to fend for themselves, not rely on others. | ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:19 RewardedFool wrote: Everyone saying "he shouldn't have to learn to fight": He can do civilian service and push a pencil for 2 years, I'm not even sure he has to learn to shoot, even if he does, a few hours on a rifle range won't hurt him. Few weeks ago, in my country someone died in army during training with live ammunition, got headshotted from assault rifle. Did not really make me anymore fan of conscription. | ||
|
Makro
France16890 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:06 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: First, 18 yo are adults and not kids. Second don't forget that North Korean army is like 3 times larger than South Korean army; SK has to compete with it so how would you do that with only a voluntary service? north korean's army would probably run out of fuel and everything before even crossing the border (if they do) but even so, i understand the fact that SK forces a 2 year military duty because they are technically still at war, and they are somewhat in a hard spot with china being close | ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:19 WTFZerg wrote: What does it matter if SK has the support of the international community? They need to be able to fend for themselves, not rely on others. Likely, in case of war breaking out between Koreans, USA would intervene. There are also USA army bases in SK. | ||
|
EatingBomber
1017 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:11 GreenHealing wrote: When people turn 18, they dont mystically turn into full grown adults that are perfectly equipped to deal with various issues and judge major decisions about their life. Many 18 year old people are still pretty much childs. If South Korea ceases to exist because people didnt bother to defend it voluntary, then SK was not worth it and its the fault of the people living there for not doing anything for their homeland. Also, this is definitely not something that can be decided by democracy. When its matter of life and death and safety of individual people, the majority cant decide that. By law, we should protect the minority who dont want to place themselves in danger. This is silly. You invalidate the majoritarian decision of a democratic country to defend itself, and then you say that South Korea does not deserve to exist if nobody seeks to defend it 'voluntarily'. In that case, why have democracy? Why even have nations? Why even preserve ancient cultures and histories of other nations, if everyone from that nation is dead already and no one would care enough to 'defend' it? You are such a disgusting hypocrite; first you pontificate about South Korea's lack of an intrinsic value, and then you prioritise people's individual decisions above all else, as if they had an intrinsic value as well. | ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:22 EatingBomber wrote: This is silly. You invalidate the majoritarian decision of a democratic country to defend itself, and then you say that South Korea does not deserve to exist if nobody seeks to defend it. In that case, why have democracy? Why even have nations? Why even preserve ancient cultures and histories of other nations, if everyone from that nation is dead already and no one would care enough to 'defend' it? You are such a disgusting hypocrite; first you pontificate about South Korea's lack of an intrinsic value, and then you prioritise people's individual decisions above all else, as if they had an intrinsic value as well. I happen to value people, not abstract nations. And nations dont own people, nations are there for the people. | ||
|
uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:23 GreenHealing wrote: I happen to value people, not abstract nations. And nations dont own people, nations are there for the people. That's why they have to defend themselves? Are you high? | ||
|
Kaizor
Singapore909 Posts
I come from Singapore, one of the countries that practices conscription. Currently youngsters from my country can be enlisted as young as 18 and serve up to a maximum of 2 years. Me myself? I served 2 years and 2 months during my time. Was i happy during my 2 years and 2 months in the Army? Hell no. We were actually still allowed out of camps during weekends and spend our weekdays in the camp normally. But there were times when we had to go for missions and could be away from home for about 1 month or 2. Except for the rare super patriotic guy, most of my companions were absolutely not happy about it. We were not used to be in an organization where Rank mattered and you had no choice or say in EVERYTHING. But we understood why we had to do it. Some one here suggested volunteers. Really? Where almost 99% of the guys enlisted absolutely detested the idea of serving in the army, you are sure there will be people who are going to volunteer to serve if they are not forced to ?? How about a professional army? Where the only people who serve in the army are people who wants to be a soldier professionally? I am sorry man, My country is no USA, you don't hear alot of people going on about how patriotic they are and how they want to be a soldier to protect the country. Sure there will be a few here and there. But for the most part, our professional soldiers, who are doing it as a job and getting well paid for it, most of them are not doing it because they really want to be a soldier. Let's just say being a soldier isn't on the top 10 list of people's dream job. Hell, i would be surprised if it is in the top 100 list. If we only depended on people who wanted to be a soldier for a living, my country's army will be so laughable small that there wouldn't be any point in it. Why not depend on mercenaries? Or other countries' peace-keeping forces? In my country's short history, we were also unfortunately caught up in World War 2 when Japan invaded South East Asia. Back then we were still a important colony of the British Empire and they had stationed about 85000 troops in my country. Even when Japan was on its march, the british were still so confident in the defense of singapore. Guess how it ended. + Show Spoiler + Japan with only a force of about 36000 won and the British surrendered in roughly a week So pardon me if i don't want to entrust the safety of my country to other people or people who are only paid to do it. Oh the world is all peaceful now, there is no way any country is going to be invaded. If that is the best argument you can come up with, you really do need to read up on history. And as a matter of fact, our neighboring countries have never been very friendly to us, and their leaders sometimes have unkind or threatening words for my homeland. So pardon me if i don't have such an idealistic view of world peace. Trust me, most of my friends and countrymen do not have a positive view of conscription. We were probably swearing and cursing every single day when we were serving our 2 years. As a matter of fact, even after the 2 years, most of us still serve 1-2 weeks every year as reserve troops up till a maximum of 40 years old. But the older we grow, and as most of us start to have our own family and children, deep down in our heart, we understand why we are doing it. Doesn't stop us from bad mouthing it every single time though. | ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:28 uriel- wrote: That's why they have to defend themselves? Are you high? They are welcome to defend their homes if they want, thats their right. But dont tell me they have any right to tell others to die for what they think is worth their lives. I find those who stand behind conscription, bunch of disgusting psychopaths. | ||
|
cheekymonkey
France1387 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:08 Harstem wrote: South-korea has almost the complete international community on its side Except for the two massive powers (Russia and China) in their immediate vicinity. China is aggressively expanding their military influence in the East China sea, and still supports North Korea militarily and economically. North Korea regularly demonstrates military aggression. South Korea is very exposed to military acts of aggression in their vulnerable geographic location. It's not about being able to handle North Korean aggression in isolation. Don't forget, China launched a massive invasion against (now) South Korea during the Korean war 60 years ago. | ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:30 cheekymonkey wrote: Except for the two massive powers (Russia and China) in their immediate vicinity. China is aggressively expanding their military influence in the East China sea, and still supports North Korea militarily and economically. North Korea regularly demonstrates military aggression. South Korea is very exposed to military acts of aggression in their vulnerable geographic location. It's not about being able to handle North Korean aggression in isolation. Don't forget, China launched a massive invasion against (now) South Korea during the Korean war 60 years ago. China is really not friend of NK anymore. | ||
|
Valeranth
United States100 Posts
Also I wonder how this will affect him and his career. Could SK revoke his visa and force him back / put him on a no fly? And how are the other pro's going to react if they see him again. Either way I think this is a sound career decision even if it is a hard one. GL to parting if this is true. | ||
|
uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:29 GreenHealing wrote: They are welcome to defend their homes if they want, thats their right. But dont tell me they have any right to tell others to die for what they think is worth their lives. I find those who stand behind conscription, bunch of disgusting psychopaths. Are you american? | ||
|
Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:31 GreenHealing wrote: China is really not friend of NK anymore. But they will concern if American troops advance to North. | ||
|
YamiRi
152 Posts
Probably he is doing some other stuffs then | ||
|
Kokujin
United States456 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55510 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:34 YamiRi wrote: In partinG's twitter, it seems like he's in Korea right now Probably he is doing some other stuffs then Yeah, he said 3 days ago that he's in Korea. This is a weird rumour. | ||
|
xtorn
4060 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:03 bypLy wrote: shame on him avoiding duty for his motherland Nobody owes jack shit to politics. Period. "Duty to motherland" lmao, the 15th century called RESPECT to PartinG for having the courage to stand his ground and not giving in! | ||
|
Garrl
Scotland1972 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:10 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: They NEED the population to be able to help the professional army in case of conflict because their permanent force would not stand a chance against NK, and they can't just rely on allies, that would be stupid, each country ultimately wants to be able to defend itself, by itself. in the modern age, having a small force of very well trained soldiers with good equipment and technology is far better than having millions of badly trained people with bad equipment that don't want to fight. On December 31 2015 01:03 bypLy wrote: shame on him avoiding duty for his motherland didn't think there was people who still thought this way.. | ||
|
cheekymonkey
France1387 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:31 GreenHealing wrote: China is really not friend of NK anymore. It doesn't matter, NK is still a valuable military and political ally of China. The numbers don't lie, NK is practically on life support by Chinese foreign aid and trade relations. | ||
|
Luolis
Finland7103 Posts
I would guess Finnish, since he talked about an incident where a finnish guy who was doing the mandatory service died during training | ||
|
Cricketer12
United States13974 Posts
| ||
|
uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:37 xtorn wrote: Nobody owes jack shit to politics. Period. "Duty to motherland" lmao, the 15th century called RESPECT to PartinG for having the courage to stand his ground and not giving in! Must be nice to sit in front of a computer during peace and pass judgement on other countries. I'm sure your country never drafted for a war in its history. Oh, but it's in the past for me! You mean other countries are different? Who knew? | ||
|
Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
Interesting quote, isn`t it? *sarcasm* | ||
Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
| ||
|
Kaizor
Singapore909 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:38 Garrl wrote: in the modern age, having a small force of very well trained soldiers with good equipment and technology is far better than having millions of badly trained people with bad equipment that don't want to fight. Of course, lets just have a few elite pilots for the Gundam Suits and they are more than enough to deter any potential enemy. Pew pew laser beams and missiles. Or wait even better, lets just have a few people sitting in a hidden base, pressing buttons and missiles will shoot the enemy and obliterate them. I'm sorry, what was i thinking about. The best idea is obviously to just train 300 elite soldiers who go around fighting in red underwear and armed only with a spear and shield. Isn't that what worked in the movie? On a more serious note, i am sure the most powerful and technologically advanced country in the world has the smallest standing army and because of that country's presence, all aggression has been deterred and world peace reigns throughout the world ! | ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
What was the country again that had this and had the best army in the world... | ||
|
Elentos
55510 Posts
3 days ago. I find it unlikely that he goes to Korea, practices for NationWars, then flees the country (unnoticed) and suddenly rumours about draft dodging spread. Maybe a joke gone wrong? | ||
|
xtorn
4060 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:39 uriel- wrote: Must be nice to sit in front of a computer during peace and pass judgement on other countries. I'm sure your country never drafted for a war in its history. Oh, but it's in the past for me! You mean other countries are different? Who knew? Lets get one thing straight im only gonna say this once because such discussions are useless between html fighters WHOEVER WANTS TO BE A PATRIOT and fight for his country - respect to him too! CHOICE is key. Ok? Having the choice, the choice, THE CHOICE! | ||
|
cheekymonkey
France1387 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:38 Garrl wrote: in the modern age, having a small force of very well trained soldiers with good equipment and technology is far better than having millions of badly trained people with bad equipment that don't want to fight. There's a difference between western countries fighting proxy wars in the middle-east, and defending against an invasion or intrusion of territory. A small force of well-trained soldiers is useless in that situation. | ||
|
swissman777
1106 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:37 xtorn wrote: Nobody owes jack shit to politics. Period. "Duty to motherland" lmao, the 15th century called RESPECT to PartinG for having the courage to stand his ground and not giving in! I think the "motherland" indicates that this was a joke. | ||
|
swissman777
1106 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:45 cheekymonkey wrote: There's a difference between western countries fighting proxy wars in the middle-east, and defending against an invasion or intrusion of territory. A small force of well-trained soldiers is useless in that situation. Although US troops would be more than enough. As long as SK is US' ally, I think it's pretty safe to say that NK is outnumbered even when drafting is gone in SK | ||
|
Kaizor
Singapore909 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:47 swissman777 wrote: Although US troops would be more than enough. As long as SK is US' ally, I think it's pretty safe to say that NK is outnumbered even when drafting is gone in SK Ya just because it's USA, North Korea is definitely going to be outnumbered. *facepalm* Just google it. Please. | ||
|
Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
| ||
|
cheekymonkey
France1387 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:47 swissman777 wrote: Although US troops would be more than enough. As long as SK is US' ally, I think it's pretty safe to say that NK is outnumbered even when drafting is gone in SK SK is not a NATO ally. They can not depend on stationed US troops in the event of an invasion from NK, possibly supported by China. Even though it's unlikely to happen today, a lot can happen in a decade. Building up military defense is an extremely slow process. And it is much more costly to build up than to maintain. | ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:49 Kaizor wrote: Ya just because it's USA, North Korea is definitely going to be outnumbered. *facepalm* Just google it. Please. Realistically, Korea war would end up Soul getting fucked up my artillery regardless what anyone does, but after that NK would get fucked up by everyone else. Their army isnt that good. | ||
|
uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:44 xtorn wrote: Lets get one thing straight im only gonna say this once because such discussions are useless between html fighters WHOEVER WANTS TO BE A PATRIOT and fight for his country - respect to him too! CHOICE is key. Ok? Having the choice, the choice, THE CHOICE! There is a choice - one can leave the country. You don't get to enjoy the privileges of citizenship of a country if you are not willing to pay your dues. In some cases, military service is part of that. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Many people living in peace and passing judgement on countries they know nothing about can't understand this. | ||
|
The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
About koreans dodging military and the consequences. But apparently it was just a rumor? Quite a distasteful one if that is so ! | ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:53 uriel- wrote: There is a choice - one can leave the country. You don't get to enjoy the privileges of citizenship of a country if you are not willing to pay your dues. In some cases, military service is part of that. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Many people living in peace and passing judgement on countries they know nothing about can't understand this. Its matter of, does the nation have right to demand such from people and answer is definitely no. We as people should stand up against this evilness, and make clear that there is limit on what "laws" can demand and the limit is here. Unless, of course 100% of people approve conscription but that is never the case and even if it was, new people would come and old people can change their mind. | ||
|
uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:50 Thouhastmail wrote: Anyway, I think this thread needs to be closed or modified. This is indeed a god awful thread. | ||
|
swissman777
1106 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:50 cheekymonkey wrote: SK is not a NATO ally. They can not depend on stationed US troops in the event of an invasion from NK, possibly supported by China. Even though it's unlikely to happen today, a lot can happen in a decade. Building up military defense is an extremely slow process. And it is much more costly to build up than to maintain. Considering the relationship of SK government and US (from what is seen from the media at least) is very strong. Unless US backs off from the relationship, I'd say SK is fine without the drafting. | ||
|
uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:55 GreenHealing wrote: Its matter of, does the nation have right to demand such from people and answer is definitely no. We as people should stand up against this evilness, and make clear that there is limit on what "laws" can demand and the limit is here. Nice of you to think you have the answer to what "rights" other countries have. You might be surprised to learn that your "answer" doesn't matter a tiny fucking little bit. | ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:57 uriel- wrote: Nice of you to think you have the answer to what "rights" other countries have. You might be surprised to learn that your "answer" doesn't matter a tiny fucking little bit. I live in country with conscription. | ||
|
Luolis
Finland7103 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:57 uriel- wrote: Nice of you to think you have the answer to what "rights" other countries have. You might be surprised to learn that your "answer" doesn't matter a tiny fucking little bit. Isnt it simple? He thinks its morally wrong for countries to demand that from their citizens :D | ||
|
Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
| ||
|
danbel1005
United States1319 Posts
| ||
|
swissman777
1106 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:49 Kaizor wrote: Ya just because it's USA, North Korea is definitely going to be outnumbered. *facepalm* Just google it. Please. Are you saying that NK would actually be a military threat to SK+US without the nuclear weapon? | ||
|
danbel1005
United States1319 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:59 Thouhastmail wrote: IMO, realistically, Korea needs mandatory military service due to NK`s threatening. However, it is not because SK cannot defend itself against NK; Dayum, SK has 7th biggest military force! Plus Murica, but if NK is in trouble China might jump in and then Russia...RUSSIA. | ||
|
Jusba
Finland189 Posts
| ||
|
cheekymonkey
France1387 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:57 swissman777 wrote: Considering the relationship of SK government and US (from what is seen from the media at least) is very strong. Unless US backs off from the relationship, I'd say SK is fine without the drafting. You can't predict the military choices of the US based on the media picture. The US really does not want to get dragged into a war with NK supported by China. | ||
|
Garrl
Scotland1972 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:42 Kaizor wrote: Of course, lets just have a few elite pilots for the Gundam Suits and they are more than enough to deter any potential enemy. Pew pew laser beams and missiles. Or wait even better, lets just have a few people sitting in a hidden base, pressing buttons and missiles will shoot the enemy and obliterate them. I'm sorry, what was i thinking about. The best idea is obviously to just train 300 elite soldiers who go around fighting in red underwear and armed only with a spear and shield. Isn't that what worked in the movie? yeah everything has to be black and white either 1 soldier or the entire country has to fight... you incentivise people to join the army and get proper training by increasing their salary/benefits; getting rid of conscription, you free up a lot of money to go into this; not to forget, conscription is wasting a lot of talent that goes into their economy, which could further increase their benefits. i mean even besides everything else, there's more than one way to wage a war, and having a good economy is the backbone of everything; if you're in SK's position you can just throw your economic weight around a bit. | ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
On December 31 2015 03:03 cheekymonkey wrote: You can't predict the military choices of the US based on the media picture. The US really does not want to get dragged into a war with NK supported by China. USA has military bases in SK, so I think they are prepared to participate in some degree especially if their bases are under attack. | ||
|
Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
On December 31 2015 03:03 cheekymonkey wrote: You can't predict the military choices of the US based on the media picture. The US really does not want to get dragged into a war with NK supported by China. You do not have to worry. SK is the biggest trade partner of China`s import, bigger than US or Japan. Money talks, isn`t it? And China officially announced that China won`t support NK if it strikes SK first. | ||
|
Ej_
47656 Posts
| ||
|
Kofuku
31 Posts
On December 31 2015 03:04 GreenHealing wrote: USA has military bases in SK, so I think they are prepared to participate in some degree especially if their bases are under attack. Yes, one of the macabre reasons the U.S. bases are there is that if South Korea were suddenly attacked, a lot of U.S. soldiers would certainly die very quickly based on a lot of bases' proximity to the border, and their deaths would go a long way toward motivating the U.S. public to support a broader war. On topic (?) though, there is a lot of kind of irresponsible accusation here based on an unverified rumor, especially silly since a lot of people have pointed out that Parting might actually be in Korea anyway. I wonder if the original post is just a result of miscommunication/misunderstanding/mistranslation. | ||
|
v_lm
France202 Posts
| ||
|
Oukka
Finland1683 Posts
And that's with me having done 12 months mandatory service. | ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
On December 31 2015 03:15 Oukka wrote: I think that mandatory military service is in some cases the only way to uphold a believable military deterrent to protect the sovereignty of a country. In other words training people to fight makes it unlikely for them to ever need these skills. And that's with me having done 12 months mandatory service. In Finlands case, I believe that we already have the general mentality very compatible with incentived military service. In my proposed model, we would keep our system roughly the same with the difference that its 100% voluntary with decent salary and benefits. (obviously we wouldnt pay 2000 month for 200 000 people, but for those 18 000 people per year in active service) Alternatively, keep draft but decriminalize unattending like some european countries. Third option is to keep draft, but remove obligation to join war in time of crisis so we keep the reserve trained during peacetime but dont force people to die against their will. | ||
Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
I hope he won't get into too much trouble for this... | ||
|
Elentos
55510 Posts
On December 31 2015 03:18 Ragnarork wrote: This look very PartinG-esque to me. I hope he won't get into too much trouble for this... If it's true he's in trouble. But there's literally no evidence it's true. | ||
|
BeStFAN
483 Posts
| ||
|
Arvendilin
Germany1878 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:03 bypLy wrote: shame on him avoiding duty for his motherland Why? How is military conscription a good thing, and duty to his motherland yea sure but paying taxes and beeing a decent citizen should be enough to fullfill that duty, not having to pick up a gun and maybe even kill. Nationalism and militarism was almost the end for humanity in the 20th century, I for one am happy that my country got rid of this practice and I can wholeheartedly understand why one wouldn't like to participate (atleast they had the alternative of doing social work instead of military over here before, having no choice at all, forcing them is immoral) | ||
|
nukkuj
Finland403 Posts
I served 6 months when I had to do mandatory military service around 10 years ago. I hated every day, but that's irrelevant. I would rather die knowing I'm fighting to save my family from getting robbed, raped and killed. Because that's usually what happens when a country gets invaded. I hope PartinG is fine and it's just a rumour. | ||
|
Elentos
55510 Posts
| ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
On December 31 2015 03:38 Elentos wrote: It's a rumour based on what 1 person said, but it contradicts what PartinG himself said 3 days ago. There's no evidence this is even remotely true. All that is discussed here is politics. This thread is pretty worthless atm. Not worthless, if even one person reads this and comes to realize the severe immorality of conscription. | ||
|
Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55510 Posts
On December 31 2015 03:39 GreenHealing wrote: Not worthless, if even one person reads this and comes to realize the severe immorality of conscription. That's a personal opinion that has nothing to do with Starcraft. It's completely worthless for this section of the forum as long as the part relating to Starcraft has no factual basis. | ||
|
showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
| ||
|
Pippah
Denmark353 Posts
| ||
|
Ljas
Finland725 Posts
On December 31 2015 03:17 GreenHealing wrote: In Finlands case, I believe that we already have the general mentality very compatible with incentived military service. And here we have someone who either didn't do the military service or was a cadet. I'm willing to put money on the former. But really now, is this the SC2 general forum or not? If you want to talk conscription, why not make a dedicated thread for it? | ||
|
GreenHealing
82 Posts
On December 31 2015 03:50 Ljas wrote: And here we have someone who either didn't do the military service or was a cadet. I'm willing to put money on the former. But really now, is this the SC2 general forum or not? If you want to talk conscription, why not make a dedicated thread for it? 75% of finnish people are for conscription, i think that speaks alot about mentality regarding nationalism. | ||
|
ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
| ||
|
Werk
United States294 Posts
| ||
|
DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
The mandatory military stuff is retarded but that's how it is currently. Seek citizenship somewhere else, go to jail instead or just do it are pretty much your options. | ||
|
AxCranK
United States51 Posts
A lot of Korean like progamer, singer, actor and etc postpone their military service with many different way. There are many different easy ways which is 'legal' to postpone their military service. They try to postpone military service because 2 years is really big deal when you're building your carrier. some ppl go to foreign country to work, study and do something for them before their military. Since we're talking about Parting We can say someone like Violet, Polt, Hydra. But we gotta know that staying in foreign country before military service doesn't mean that they can avoid military service completely and Korean knows that. Plus, when you reach some age, you'are not even allow to fly to any other country. Even if you stay in out side of Korea, you will be forced to come to Korea to do military service. I'm not trying to protect Parting from this topic. But this post doesn't make sense for me at all. | ||
|
Wuster
1974 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:16 Thouhastmail wrote: http://www.globalfirepower.com/ I believe you`re underestimating SK, or overestimating NK. The big boogey man of NK has been tossed around a lot. The real reason SK has to fear NK isn't because they have an unstoppable army (what does size matter? Iraq had a larger army than the coalition forces opposing it and look how long their fighting coherency lasted), but it's because Seoul is close enough to the border to be hit by all sorts of conventional weaponry from NK. Otherwise the South could crush the North in any war (minus Chinese intervention as in the Korean War). On December 31 2015 02:59 Thouhastmail wrote: IMO, realistically, South Korea needs mandatory military service due to NK`s threatening. However, it is not because SK cannot defend itself against NK; Dayum, SK has 7th biggest military force! I somewhat agree, I think it's more for show, plus Asian countries have a tradition of mandatory military service so it's just something they've always done. | ||
|
PepsiMaxxxx
Sweden5452 Posts
| ||
|
Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
Teamwork | ||
|
PepsiMaxxxx
Sweden5452 Posts
| ||
|
Grettin
42381 Posts
lmfao | ||
|
Elentos
55510 Posts
| ||
|
JonnySC2
Germany119 Posts
| ||
|
Promised_pain
Finland57 Posts
| ||
KadaverBB
Germany25657 Posts
| ||
|
Topin
Peru10055 Posts
| ||
|
KadaverBB
Germany25657 Posts
| ||
| ||
StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War Dota 2 League of Legends Counter-Strike Super Smash Bros Other Games |
|
The PondCast
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
WardiTV European League
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
Replay Cast
RSL Revival
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
OSC
Replay Cast
RSL Revival
Classic vs Cure
FEL
OSC
[ Show More ] |
|
|
EPT
