EPTHow fucking boring is it to max on 1 (or 2 if you're really playing out-of-the-box) units and just bang your head against your opponent's same composition over and over until 1 person finally gets a bit of an edge and wins the game? This is not strategy. It is mundane repetitive mechanical bullshit, and it's something I can easily do without.
ZvZ is the most boring mundane same-crap MU ever!
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Devolved
United States2753 Posts
How fucking boring is it to max on 1 (or 2 if you're really playing out-of-the-box) units and just bang your head against your opponent's same composition over and over until 1 person finally gets a bit of an edge and wins the game? This is not strategy. It is mundane repetitive mechanical bullshit, and it's something I can easily do without. | ||
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Mojito99
Germany154 Posts
i like your arguments about zvz and especially your insight into the matchup on various skill levels. I hope you follow this up with a guide. In all honesty: zvz was the reason for many people to play protoss or terran instead. | ||
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TokyoGirl
Japan116 Posts
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Devolved
United States2753 Posts
Build Roaches. The end. | ||
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ETisME
12896 Posts
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Enigmasc
United Kingdom147 Posts
thou you can trey and mix things up a little trying to be cute with burrow and by going muta-> roach | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12589 Posts
Muta transition (some Scarlett vs Sen games for example). Infestor transition (a ton of games). Swarmhost transition before it was thankfully patched. Most PvT: tech to colossus so that you can hold mines and bio, into scv pull, the end. A match-up that doesn't have it at all: PvP! But most people dislike it and then pretend it's for that reason. A solution: watch roach wars more carefully and realize how much skill it takes to win a majority of them. Then come back and discuss. See you in a while. | ||
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Sjokola
Netherlands800 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
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Devolved
United States2753 Posts
On August 10 2014 21:36 ETisME wrote: always interesting to see some people with their complete lack of knowledge in ZvZ and label the MU as boring mass up one unit Hey, I'm no SC2 expert and especially not a ZvZ expert. I'm just commenting on what I've seen since I've returned, which is about ~50 ZvZ tournament matches with every single one of them being a Roach vs. Roach battle. Of course there may have been some very minimal early ling/bane action but all the other player has to do to counter that is build Roaches and have a bit of defense in the form of his own lings/banes. Maybe I'm missing something and you can enlighten me, but from what I've seen it's Roach vs. Roach nonstop with maybe a few Hydras mixed in till the end of the game. | ||
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MangoMountain
Norway2044 Posts
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KelsierSC
United Kingdom10443 Posts
On August 10 2014 21:24 Devolved wrote: I took a break from SC2 a while back, but since I have come back I've been watching a lot of tournament streams to get caught up on strategies and just the scene in general. Every single ZvZ I've seen (and there's been a ton of them) is just the same Roach vs. Roach battle with maybe some Hydras mixed in for some extra DPS. It's boring, it's repetitive, and if this is the future of SC2 I don't know why I even bothered returning. How fucking boring is it to max on 1 (or 2 if you're really playing out-of-the-box) units and just bang your head against your opponent's same composition over and over until 1 person finally gets a bit of an edge and wins the game? This is not strategy. It is mundane repetitive mechanical bullshit, and it's something I can easily do without. You are a foolish man | ||
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Jett.Jack.Alvir
Canada2250 Posts
On August 10 2014 21:41 JoeCool wrote: I thought ZvZ was all about Ling/Bling? Most openers is ling/bling but unless one zerg ends it with some sweet bane pain, both zergs need to transition to something else. I see most pro zvz games go like this: ling/bling -> roach/ling -> static defense From here, there are variations. I have seen some go roach/hyrda like the OP mentions, while others still like mutas in this match up. Another choice is SH, but this might force the opponent to go brood lords. I honestly don't think zvz is as bland as the OP thinks. Like with any mirror match ups, sometimes the counter to x unit is more x unit, but in zvz its not always roach wars. | ||
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Gere
Germany55 Posts
On August 10 2014 21:24 Devolved wrote: How fucking boring is it to max on 1 (or 2 if you're really playing out-of-the-box) units and just bang your head against your opponent's same composition over and over until 1 person finally gets a bit of an edge and wins the game? This is not strategy. It is mundane repetitive mechanical bullshit, and it's something I can easily do without. Are you at least top Masters yet? If not, then you probably should try playing your "simple" strategy and see if it works out. It cannot be that hard to build a single unit, right? Most likely you will find yourself missing strategical points and losing a lot. It's easy to shout out "I know everything and I would win if only I tried" | ||
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meshfusion
Russian Federation232 Posts
every ZvZ is the same (and I agree, most boring MU, I ALWAYS skip it or ignore it or don't watch it when it happens) every TvP or TvP opening and the first 10 mins are 90% the time the same with the stupid reaper expand. | ||
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Maniak_
France305 Posts
On August 10 2014 21:24 Devolved wrote: Every single ZvZ I've seen (and there's been a ton of them) is just the same Roach vs. Roach battle with maybe some Hydras mixed in for some extra DPS. Add in the lings/banes at the start of the game and you've got the entire zerg ground arsenal available until much later in the game (and hydras are already pretty late). Add the mutas when there's an opportunity to get them and there are not already the few spore crawlers (baneling spewers in that case) necessary to defend them and you've got the entire zerg air arsenal usable in zvz before brood lords. There are not that many units that can be used (but not that few either). It's the way they're used that changes things, and that's where strategy comes in. Mindless roaches vs roaches 1A battles are boring and uninteresting, but I haven't seen that many recently (I'm not following every single game though). Then again, mindless parade pushing with marines/mines and a few medivacs is just as boring and devoid of strategy. Just keep on rallying until the zerg breaks or finds a way to break the cycle, yay. And turtle into 1A protoss deathball is not that interesting either. Each matchup has its boring side, especially when it's not 'your' race and you may not understand what's actually required to execute it. There's nothing special about zvz on this front. And then there's personal taste. I'd rather see ZvZ and PvP all day long than any TvT, but that's me. Maybe you're just a bit allergic to the zerg race design. | ||
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KelsierSC
United Kingdom10443 Posts
Even in the most varied matchup I doubt there are more than 3-4 distinct strategies to aim for and all others are just subtle variations of these distinct strategies. | ||
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TargA
Norway204 Posts
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On August 10 2014 22:03 TargA wrote: ur just too bad to realise whats going on. Thanks Targa I didn't wanna say it  . | ||
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Devolved
United States2753 Posts
On August 10 2014 21:54 Gere wrote: Are you at least top Masters yet? If not, then you probably should try playing your "simple" strategy and see if it works out. It cannot be that hard to build a single unit, right? Most likely you will find yourself missing strategical points and losing a lot. It's easy to shout out "I know everything and I would win if only I tried" I never claimed to be a top masters or even good at this game. Please don't put words into my mouth that were never spoken such as "I know everything" and "I would win if I only tried." I never spoke these words nor have I implied such. My commentary comes mainly from watching games as-of-late. If this is supposed to be a spectator-friendly e-sport videogame, then something really needs to be done about the ZvZ matchup, because at this point I'm just turning off the stream when another ZvZ match happens unless it's one of my absolute favorite players. | ||
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