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Ukraine Crisis - Page 563

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There is a new policy in effect in this thread. Anyone not complying will be moderated.

New policy, please read before posting:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21393711
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-25 19:14:13
May 25 2014 18:10 GMT
#11241
The Swedish FM says it best. Exit polls state that Poroshenko won the elections in the first round. Excellent result for Ukraine, as a run-up election would have allowed for three more weeks of instability, with a Tymoshenko touch of crazy added to it.



Excerpt from the same article


Timothy Ash, an analyst with Standard Bank in London, said: "Turnout seems to have been very high, representing a vote by the population in favur of an independent Ukraine. This represents a defeat for seperatists in southeastern Ukraine, and also for President Vladimir Putin and Russia. It was important that the turnout was high, that a second round run off was avoided, while also that the victor - in this case, seemingly Poroshenko - secured a signficant mandate to rule. And this vote has delivered all these aspects. Russia and Putin have no real choice but to accept this vote as legitimate and reflecting the interests of the Ukrainian population. Perhaps Putin's statements to this effect last week reflected his understanding that Russia had lost "hearts and minds" in Ukraine by its less than constructive approach in recent months. Russia can still significantly undermine a Poroshenko presidency, and it will be waiting to see what the president-elect is going to deliver in terms of concessions, including forging a new coalition government (to include those better representing Russia's interests), committments to no NATO membership nor European Union integration, and a new federal constitution. Not sure that Poroshenko can or will be willing to deliver on much of this agenda, and particularly after this landslide victory."

The turnout was expected to be around 60 percent nationwide and much higher in the western parts of the country where 52 percent voted by 4 p.m., according to OPORA, the biggest election watchdog. There were fears that many will not be able to vote at all because of long queues.

Prosecutors called today's election one of the most democratic and cleanest in Ukraine's history.

+ Show Spoiler [far right result] +



Which doesn't stop the Russian propaganda machine of course:




***
Comments from his first address:






Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Greem
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
730 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-25 18:45:25
May 25 2014 18:44 GMT
#11242
This is too easy, i don't know what to think when there are no competition to even choose from, obviously he said things that Kiev goverment wanted to hear. But what everyone suppose to think when he tells something like "Crimea annexation wont be recognized by Ukraine", I mean what can he do if people in Crimea is happy enought with current situation. Also visit to Donbas under current condition seem like a wasted promise, i bet first visit there is months away, he may get killed even if he goes there right now.

I guess time will tell what's in his agenda, but the parlament is still formed by the same people, so what really is there to expect , just some random promises again ? Its hard to believe anyone under this circumstances, at the moment situation , economically is pretty much at lowest point possible, divided nation, Its summer, but when autumn will come , the gas debts will come again.
youtube.com/N0rthernL1ght
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-25 20:26:09
May 25 2014 20:25 GMT
#11243
Another election result, Klitschko becomes the mayor of Kyiv:


Kyiv elected a mayor and the city legislature for the first time since 2008.

According to the exit poll by Savik Shuster Studio political talk show, Vitali Klitschko won 57 percent of the vote, leaving the runner-up Lesya Orobets far behind with 10 percent of the vote.

The capital has lived without a mayor for the last two years since Leonid Chernovetsky, the city’s last elected mayor, resigned on June 1, 2012. He had been absent from Kyiv's political scene for more than six months before his resignation, allowing a presidential appointee to run the city. The Kyiv city council’s legal five-year term expired in June of 2013.

Since that time the council’s secretary Halyna Hereha, a business tycoon and wife of the Party of Regions lawmaker Oleksandr Hereha, was acting as city major. Until recently she ran the city along with Oleksandr Popov, an appointed head of Kyiv State Administration.

In the last two years the ruling Party of Regions kept sabotaging local elections in Kyiv through an array of legal means because its popularity had vanished. Previously, the Regions and allies controlled the 120-seat council. Now, power has shifted to Klitschko's UDAR, which got 42 percent of the votes, according to Shuster Studio's exit poll. A handful of smaller parties have also won seats.
Source.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-26 03:11:47
May 26 2014 03:10 GMT
#11244
odessian newspaper timer is reporting on cases of stuffing ballots and pre-marked ballots, foreigners, children and dead people voting, and deliberate manipulation of voter lists. a nationalist youth organization from kiev were brought in to guard the election.

the overall turnout in ukr is reported to be around 60%, not including data from zhitomir, chernigov, cherkassy, lugansk and donetsk regions.

both the camps of the leading mayoral candidates in odessa have declared themselves winners and are accusing the other part of mass falsifications.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
Roman666
Profile Joined April 2012
Poland1440 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-26 05:03:30
May 26 2014 05:02 GMT
#11245
Official page with election results:

http://www.cvk.gov.ua/vp2014/wp001.html

You need to set the encoding to Cyrilic 1251 manually, admins screwed up content header and encoding does not set automatically. Since the header is screwed, auto translation will not work, however the main point of interest on the left side bar should be this part:

+ Результати голосування (voting results)
По Україні (In Ukraine)
В межах регіонів (By regions)
На виборчих дільницях (By polling stations)
В межах закордонного виборчого округу (In the overseas constituencies)
Підтримка лідерів по регіонах (Runners up by the regions)
По кандидату (By the candidate)
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
May 26 2014 06:26 GMT
#11246
So far I've seen some reports of irregularities in the voting, but it's generally seen as the best conducted elections in Ukrainian history (as little as that might mean by EU standards).

We will get a official report from a press conference by election observers today:


There's some foreshadowing:


On Monday, for example, European election monitors praised the election that was held Sunday, calling it an “impressive display” of democracy.


The link in the Source. is supposed to refer to an OSCE.org article, but it has been taken down or moved. Probably because they don't want to spoil the report before the press conference. So we can't know exactly what was in there unless someone is way better at retrieving cached content than I am.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Dav1oN
Profile Joined January 2012
Ukraine3164 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-26 08:28:02
May 26 2014 08:15 GMT
#11247
Just to show u overall moods of ppl in a day before elections. Eastern Ukraine, center of Kharkov city:



Still any doubts about course of the majority of people?

P.S. Overall very positive video with a lot ppl smiling.
In memory of Geoff "iNcontroL" Robinson 11.09.1985 - 21.07.2019 A tribute to incredible man, embodiment of joy, esports titan, starcraft community pillar all in one. You will always be remembered!
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-26 13:31:45
May 26 2014 12:57 GMT
#11248
Some potentially good news:



There are still caveats though, and it all means nothing until Putin has spoken.
***
OSCE Election observer report:

KYIV, 26 May 2014 – The 25 May early presidential election in Ukraine was characterized by high turnout and a clear resolve by the authorities to hold what was a genuine election largely in line with international commitments and that respected fundamental freedoms, despite the hostile security environment in two eastern regions of the country, international observers concluded in a preliminary statement released today. While the election administration ran the process impartially and transparently on the whole, some decisions taken may have been beyond its authority.

“This election proved the democratic spirit of the people of Ukraine, who had the opportunity to genuinely express their will at the ballot box, and seized it in high numbers,” said João Soares, the Special Co-ordinator who led the short-term OSCE observer mission. “The electoral and security authorities of Ukraine should be commended for their efforts – under extraordinary circumstances – to facilitate an election that largely upheld democratic commitments.”

Genuine efforts were made by the electoral authorities to conduct voting throughout the country, despite continued unrest and violence in the east, which seriously impacted the election environment, negatively affected the human rights situation, obstructed meaningful observation, and had a significant adverse affect on preparations. Forced evictions and closures of District Election Commissions by armed groups, abductions, death threats, forced entry into private homes and the seizure of equipment and election materials were attempts to prevent the election and to deny citizens their right to vote, the observers said.

“The extraordinary quality of yesterday’s election provides the new president of Ukraine with the legitimacy to establish immediately an inclusive dialogue with all citizens in the eastern regions, to restore their trust and confidence, and to decentralize state power in order to preserve the unity of the country by respecting the diversity of Ukrainian society,” said Andreas Gross, Head of the PACE delegation. “There is no military solution to today’s crisis, and those who belong together can only come together through dialogue, mutual understanding, social reforms and greater fairness.”

The election did not take place in the Crimean Peninsula, which is not under the control of the Ukrainian authorities, and Ukrainian citizens living there faced serious difficulties in participating in the election.

“Unfortunately, many citizens were prevented from voting in Donetsk and Luhansk, as were nearly all in Crimea, due to the ongoing threats to Ukraine’s territorial integrity,” said Ilkka Kanerva, Head of the OSCE PA delegation. “However, the impressive turnout in the rest of the country offered a powerful rebuke to those who would challenge Ukraine’s unity and progress.”

Despite the challenging environment and limited lead-time, the Central Election Commission operated independently, impartially and efficiently, in general, and met all legal deadlines. A lack of adequate regulation of a few aspects of the election, however, lessened uniformity in the administration of the process. The substitution of numerous candidate nominees to District and Precinct Election Commissions affected the stability and efficiency of election administration, but most commissions outside of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions were able to overcome time constraints, the frequent changes in their composition and some resource problems.

“Before Sunday, everyone agreed that this was going to be an important, if difficult election, but few believed it would be successful. Our assessment is clear: the Ukrainian authorities and the Ukrainian people have made this election a success,” said Karl Lamers, Head of the NATO PA delegation. “Despite an exceptionally challenging environment, we have seen a good election process and election officials performing their duties with dedication and professionalism, sometimes in extremely difficult conditions. And we have seen the Ukrainian people expressing confidence in their country’s future by voting in large numbers, wherever they were able to do so.”
Continue reading

Report from 2 local organizations:

***
Meanwhile the violence continues:


***
+ Show Spoiler [Interesting analysis] +


The “most significant result” of the Ukrainian presidential elections was not the selection of Petro Poroshenko, his victory in the first round, or the defeat of Yuliya Timoshenko but rather “the formal-legal death of the Putin myth about the so-called ‘split’ of Ukraine into a West-Central and South-Eastern part,” Vladimir Pastukhov say.

As such, the St. Antony’s scholar says,the vote effectively represents “the funeral of Putin’s plan for the division of Ukraine, the final completion of the 20-year period of ‘Ukrainianization, [and] an important stage on the path to the Westernization and Europeanization of Ukraine” (echo.msk.ru/blog/aillar/1327642-echo/).

In this Ukrainian election, in contrast to earlier presidential votes there, the winner was not someone who won the most votes in the west but lost the east or who won the east but lost the west. “For the first time, the president of Ukraine was chosen by the votes of all Ukraine, by the votes of the residents of all major Ukrainian macro-regions.”

Even more, Pastukhov says, the three trailing candidates received approximately the same level of support in the two regions, something that represents “the absolute victory of the national choice by Ukrainian citizens” of the entire country “of the western variant of development of a united Ukraine.”
Source.

Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Mc
Profile Joined March 2010
332 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-26 15:30:36
May 26 2014 15:28 GMT
#11249
I'm disgusted by the fact that I actually liked the song... that thug knows how to flow.



Song title is "Russian Orthodox".... I hope mods don't expect me to translate the text (you can copy past the transcript to translate.google for pretty poor results)
5hh.gg
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15328 Posts
May 26 2014 15:39 GMT
#11250
On May 27 2014 00:28 Mc wrote:
I'm disgusted by the fact that I actually liked the song... that thug knows how to flow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIi7cBloy60

Song title is "Russian Orthodox".... I hope mods don't expect me to translate the text (you can copy past the transcript to translate.google for pretty poor results)

Can you please explain what we are seeing in the video? No need to translate every bit but please provide context.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
BeaTeR
Profile Joined March 2003
Kazakhstan4130 Posts
May 26 2014 16:01 GMT
#11251
On May 27 2014 00:39 zatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2014 00:28 Mc wrote:
I'm disgusted by the fact that I actually liked the song... that thug knows how to flow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIi7cBloy60

Song title is "Russian Orthodox".... I hope mods don't expect me to translate the text (you can copy past the transcript to translate.google for pretty poor results)

Can you please explain what we are seeing in the video? No need to translate every bit but please provide context.

I think he just wanted to point out that this guy is good at rapping.

This song is very good to be honest. Nice flow and lyrics. Thanks for sharing Mc.
PaleMan
Profile Joined October 2002
Russian Federation1953 Posts
May 26 2014 17:13 GMT
#11252
big fight whole day for Donetsk international Airport

DONETSK, May 26. /ITAR-TASS/. The self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic’s militia units have temporarily recaptured the Sergei Prokofiev International Airport, which was controlled by Ukrainian army and security forces. “However, fighting has resumed near the airport just now,” the press service of the Donetsk People’s Republic told ITAR-TASS.
The press service did not confirm that fighting was under way near the city railway station.
Many shops and public places, including the city’s biggest Shakhtar Plaza center, were shut down. The city streets are deserted. In connection with the ongoing security operation, many people left work ahead of time.
Explosions were heard at the airport on Monday morning, and a cloud of smoke could be seen rising over the runway. Three army helicopters flew in the airport’s direction and intensive shooting, including from large-caliber guns, could be heard at the airport.
It is believed that assault aviation could have delivered missile strikes at the airport.
Earlier on Monday, three Ukrainian army helicopters fired at the Tochmash engineering plant in Donetsk. One person was hurt in the shooting attack.


Source

follow up videos:+ Show Spoiler +






Pure fan
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-26 19:15:27
May 26 2014 18:46 GMT
#11253
On May 27 2014 02:13 PaleMan wrote:
big fight whole day for Donetsk international Airport

Show nested quote +
DONETSK, May 26. /ITAR-TASS/. The self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic’s militia units have temporarily recaptured the Sergei Prokofiev International Airport, which was controlled by Ukrainian army and security forces. “However, fighting has resumed near the airport just now,” the press service of the Donetsk People’s Republic told ITAR-TASS.
The press service did not confirm that fighting was under way near the city railway station.
Many shops and public places, including the city’s biggest Shakhtar Plaza center, were shut down. The city streets are deserted. In connection with the ongoing security operation, many people left work ahead of time.
Explosions were heard at the airport on Monday morning, and a cloud of smoke could be seen rising over the runway. Three army helicopters flew in the airport’s direction and intensive shooting, including from large-caliber guns, could be heard at the airport.
It is believed that assault aviation could have delivered missile strikes at the airport.
Earlier on Monday, three Ukrainian army helicopters fired at the Tochmash engineering plant in Donetsk. One person was hurt in the shooting attack.


Source

follow up videos:+ Show Spoiler +


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjDXz0bqMko


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTuOvgSQ2Mg


Please use reputable sources only. ITAR-TASS either willfully or by mispractice gets its facts wrong. For example, there was definite fighting at or near the railway station. + Show Spoiler [graphic content inside] +
This happened some time in the afternoon.




Here's a proper overview of today's events:


5:08 p.m. -- Here's a timeline from the Kyiv Post correspondents at the scene:

The armed, Kremlin-backed rebels showed up at the Donetsk International Airport at 3 a.m. and started facing off with the Ukrainian military that was guarding the airstrip. Negotiations began, but obviously failed. At 5:30 a.m., several rebels were captured by Ukrainian forces, according to the Defense Ministry. At 10 a.m., three buses of 50 Kremlin-back rebels entered the airport to support the militia already there.

Around 1 p.m., Ukrainian forces issued an ultimatum to the rebels to lay down their arms and surrender. However, they failed to do so. That led to a firefight that began before 2 p.m.

Rebels previously had taken over buildings without any resistance. But today, it seemed as though the military understood that losing the airport would be a huge strategic loss, much like in Crimea.

By the early afternoon, two Ukrainian fighter jets buzzed overhead. Three Ukrainian military helicopters flew over the airport, with fighters releasing anti-missile flares as they buzzed by. A MiG-29 fired on the rebel fighters from the air.

One helicopter fired at and destroyed the insurgents' anti-aircraft gun, according to Vladislav Seleznev, a Ukraine military spokesperson. Around 3 p.m., Ukrainian forces took further offensive actions. Bursts of gunfire punctuated by mortar and RPG blasts echoed through the area.

The military pushed the rebels south into a residential area a less than a quarter mile from the city's central train station.

Rebels and ukraine troops exchanged gunfire from their positions behind trees and bus stops.

At least one rebel was injured and carried to a car and driven away.

As the fighting moved toward the train station, an announcement to evacuate blared from loudspeakers. People there spilled out of the building. Several people were visibly emotional. One woman cried into the phone, "Mom! They're shooting everywhere!"

In the afternoon, one civilian -- a male parking lot attendant -- was killed by stray bullet at Donetsk train station.

Many shops and restaurants in Donetsk closed, including the large shopping mall Donetsk City, as the Russian-backed insurgents appear to have taken control of the railway station by 5:30 p.m.
Source.


Besides the fact that Itar-Tass provides terrible biased coverage, it has recently been caught severely misrepresenting what's actually happening in Ukraine.Example 2. Example 3 Example 4. Instead of forcing us to fact check everything you post from news channels which have been demonstrated to post fake news, please refrain from doing so again.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
likeasu
Profile Joined February 2012
Russian Federation88 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-26 18:55:47
May 26 2014 18:48 GMT
#11254
On May 27 2014 00:39 zatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2014 00:28 Mc wrote:
I'm disgusted by the fact that I actually liked the song... that thug knows how to flow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIi7cBloy60

Song title is "Russian Orthodox".... I hope mods don't expect me to translate the text (you can copy past the transcript to translate.google for pretty poor results)

Can you please explain what we are seeing in the video? No need to translate every bit but please provide context.


I`ll try to translate a part of this song. Sorry for my English, guys.
For example one couplet in the middle1m23sec

"We will bear arms until bullets stop flying on peaceful local people.
We will stand here as long as the fire live in our hearts and not the stone.
There were mutiny(Maidan) and flame glowed building (tradegy in Odessa).
Hey, Dad, if You could see (his Dad is already not alive) all thing that happened
You will hate this shit immediately:
They awarded medals to Nizis for murders
They call us separatists cuz we defense our own houses.
But we play net game. And soon wheels on green chaplet (tank tracks) will stop.
All this garbage is going to go out of our home.
Its all for honor of Donbass and you, Mother Odessa...

chorus (shortly):
For every soldier and to the winning end
"Russian holy army" is standing on the battlefield.
Who if not we, when if not now...
Sorry mom,
But nobody but us...


Damn, i very like this song, it is really strong..
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-26 19:06:08
May 26 2014 19:01 GMT
#11255
@ghan
itar-tass is not reporting that fighting did not happen at railway station, they have in fact been reporting on it. they're stating, in the article likeasu, linked that the dpr press service did not confirm it.

i don't think you should be trashing itar-tass out of hand. you ought to substantiate why the itar-tass article is 'not proper', or edit your post, instead of linking a gory tweetpic that might or might not be related to the fighting and incorrectly claiming that they are reporting that no fighting was happening.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
May 26 2014 19:16 GMT
#11256
On May 27 2014 04:01 nunez wrote:
@ghan
itar-tass is not reporting that fighting did not happen at railway station, they have in fact been reporting on it. they're stating, in the article likeasu, linked that the dpr press service did not confirm it.

i don't think you should be trashing itar-tass out of hand. you ought to substantiate why the itar-tass article is 'not proper', or edit your post, instead of linking a gory tweetpic that might or might not be related to the fighting and incorrectly claiming that they are reporting that no fighting was happening.


Edited with more reasons why never to post anything from Itar-Tass (besides the fact that this particular article was shoddy reporting, as the tweet and the posted news article showed).
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
likeasu
Profile Joined February 2012
Russian Federation88 Posts
May 26 2014 19:17 GMT
#11257
Few months have passed.
And who can explain me now what is the profit of "euromaidan"? One oligarh Ianucovich has gone , new oligarh Poroshenko has come... o_O
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-26 20:11:16
May 26 2014 19:23 GMT
#11258
On May 27 2014 04:17 likeasu wrote:
Few months have passed.
And who can explain me now what is the profit of "euromaidan"? One oligarh Ianucovich has gone , new oligarh Poroshenko has come... o_O


As can be seen above, Ukraine did have relatively free elections just now, allowing (for the first time since 2008 probably) people to express their will by casting a ballot. Furthermore, the country (smaller as it might be) is much more united. Note that people from the West and East both voted for Poroshenko, and they weren't even divided regarding Tymoshenko. So the East and West divide which has haunted Ukraine in many ways for a decade is slowly dissipating. But the course of events shouldn't really be evaluated now, but years later, when the dust has settled.

***
Breaking news, a great many casualties on the Pro-Russia side (this time Chechens):


Edit: Apparently the casualty numbers come from the separatists themselves.

Source is Vesti.

The article doesn't clarify what happened in any meaningful way.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-26 20:12:20
May 26 2014 20:03 GMT
#11259
@ghan
you haven't said anything wrt why the article in question is not proper, you are advocating for dismissal of itar-tass in its entirety.

i notice that every link you posted is from a kiev-based website called 'stop-fake', according to them 'an independent community' that was made in march 2014 to refute propaganda about crimea, and is funded by akhmetov, who def is an outspoken supporter of the current regime.

'Anyone can join our community to contribute intellectually or share your stories'

it doesn't hold enough weigth for a wholesale ban on itar-tass, nor does reporting on false stories (goodbye kyivpost and nytimes f.ex when parroting 'proof of russian soldiers'), and you shouldn't be doing backseat moderation to begin with.

people should maintain a healthy level of scepticism when they read the articles.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
Mc
Profile Joined March 2010
332 Posts
May 26 2014 20:43 GMT
#11260
I'm fine with itar-tass/RT/etc being posted. I'm sometimes curious as to what Russian propaganda is up to, and they post some information that is brushed over by Western media. Just read it with a healthy dose of scepticism as nunez said :p
5hh.gg
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